The Lost City of Vilcabamba, page


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Topic started on 18-5-2012 @ 03:19 PM by Trueman
The Lost City of Vilcabamba is without doubts, one of the great mysteries of the Inca’s Empires until our days. Hidden in the mountains is the last great Inca city silently waiting to be found.

Around 1533, Manco Inca installed a rebellious kingdom protected by the mountains of Vilcabamba, while the conquistador Francisco Pizarro had already conquered almost the rest of the empire.

After Manco Inca, Sayro Tupac Amaru and Tupac Tito Cussi resisted until 1572, when the Spanish troops finally invaded Vilcabamba the Great.

Vilcabamba “The Great” was forgotten and probably covered by the forest. When Hiram Bingham found Machu Pichu, he wrongly thought it actually was Vilcabamba.

In 1987 Carmen Martín Rubio, Ph.D. in American History and a specialist in Andean themes, with three doctorates "honorary" in Peru, discovered in a library of the Palma de Mallorca (Spain), the chronicle of Juan de Betanzos, lost since 1607, entitled "the Illmo. and His Excellency Mr. D. Antonio de Mendonça, Visso King and Captain General of His Majesty, in these kingdoms and provinces of Piru. 1551-1557 '.



English version of the book here :
books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=true


Juan de Betanzos
Unfortunately very little is known as yet of this official, who has left such valuable works on the Indian traditions and language of Peru. He was a Spaniards by birth and came to Peru at an early day. Whether or not he was still on the Island of Santo Domingo in 1539, as notary or scribe, is uncertain. He was at Cuzco in 1542 and officiated as quasi-interpreter at the investigation of Indian historical traditions ordered by Vaca de Castro. (See PERU.) Even then he had acquired a solid acquaintance with the Quichua idiom. He married an Indian girl of the Inca tribe and composed the first catechism known to us in the Quichua language. The manuscript is now in the National Archives at Lima. In 1551 he finished his book entitled "Suma y Narración de los Incas etc." (dedicating it to the viceroy Antonio de Mendoza), one of the most important sources for ancient Peruvian history. Unfortunately only a part of this work is still known to exist. It embodies the earliest accounts of Indian traditions from Bolivia and extreme southern Peru, and as they were gathered by Betanzos within less than fifteen years after the landing of Pizarro, they can hardly be much tainted by contact with Europeans. Of the life of Betanzos, after 1551, practically nothing is known.


According to the information, the spanish chronicler Juan Díez de Betanzos, was asked to be the mediator for a peace agreement between the Spanish crown and the independent Inca kingdom. Betanzos had knowledge of the Quechua language thanks to his marriage the Inca Pricess Cuxirimay Ocllo. For those reasons, he took part in the expedition led by Pizarro in search of the Inca kingdom.



The search for Vilcabamba started in 1834, when Earl of Sartigni discovered “Choqquequirao“, later, in 1847 Françoise Angrand said that it was the capital of the Incas of Vilcabamba. In 1865 Antonio Raimondi said that too. This thesis was disproved in 1909 when C.A. Rosemary proved that that site is not Vilcabamba.

Gene Savoy in 1966 also said Bingham’s discovered ruins at Espiritu Pampa in 1911 were the remains of Vilcabamba la Grande. Many researchers accepted this thesis.

More detailed studies determinated that Espiritu Pampa doesn’t match with the descriptions of the sixteenth century great Inca capital lost.

Amazingly, its location was specified correctly in 1908, in a map published by the Geographical Institute of Peru filed in the National Library of Spain and has subsequently been instrumental in the investigation.

They seem to be really close, but the rests of a city that match the description of Vilcabamba haven’t been presented by any expedition yet, as I researched. It’s important to take in consideration the blend of numerous archeological sites in the same area makes the labor of the researchers very difficult.

According to this article from the spanish newspaper “El Pais” :



'We found the location of the city contrasting with data from the chronicles of the time and the realization of these field data, "explains Santiago del Valle, technical director of the expeditions from 1988, 1999 and 2001. "We have been accompanied by an archaeologist at the National Institute of Culture of Peru, Luis Guevara, who has certified the discovery and now what remains is to clean the area, about 15,000 feet, and start the scan you will help the Peruvian Government '.


elpais.com...


It’s been already few years since then, and no further news were found about the advances of the cleaning and scanning in that area.


www.forosperu.net...

www.vilcabamba.net...

www.arq.com.mx...

www.sge.org... oyecto-ukhupacha/expedicion.html


www.sge.org...







www.newadvent.org...

www.gutenberg.org...

lasa.international.pitt.edu...
edit on 18-5-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 18-5-2012 @ 07:12 PM by aboutface
reply to post by Trueman


Interesting stuff. The cuts in the rock are mind boggling in their accuracy. Someone must have had some advanced method of cutting this stuff in situ, don't you think?

Did you mean to put up identical 1st an 2nd videos, OP?
I'm afraid I got nothing from them other than the terrain is rugged and forbidding..


reply posted on 18-5-2012 @ 07:25 PM by Trueman
reply to post by aboutface


Oh, thanks for telling me. I made a mistake posting twice that video. I hope a Mod can fix that detail for me.


reply posted on 19-5-2012 @ 04:24 AM by Trueman
Originally posted by SevenThunders
I know it's romantic and politically correct to glorify native civilizations, but there is a very good reason the good Lord dismantled them. The Incas, like the Aztecs were into human sacrifice and especially loved children as their victims.

news.softpedia.com...

Since the west is hell bent on the sacrifice of children via abortion, it's doom can not be far off as well.


So, according to you the spaniards had a good reason to exterminate a whole civilization, rape them, slave them and destroy their culture; all that "in the name of God"????

The conquistadors came to steal, it was all about money. Spain was close to bankrupcy before Columbus.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your argument 100%.
edit on 19-5-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 22-5-2012 @ 12:55 AM by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Trueman


I agree, but part of his point still stands. Don't glorify too much people that are into human sacrifice.


reply posted on 22-5-2012 @ 03:04 AM by Trueman
Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Trueman


I agree, but part of his point still stands. Don't glorify too much people that are into human sacrifice.


I don't glorify them, of course human sacrifice is not right. The point is that spaniards didn't come to america to stop human sacrifices, they only came for gold.

The Spanish Inquisition established in the colonies was for the white people, not for native people, according to their records.

Almost all the cultures had human sacrifices, one way or the other. Many times they sacrificed people for non religious reasons. Romans did it for entertainment, Greeks used to kill the ugly babies.

Human sacrifice had been an early stage of development in most ancient cultures.

Today, our society practices human sacrifice for money. We invade countries for oil and natural resources. We let people starve to death in poor countries. Extremists kill people for religious reasons.


reply posted on 23-5-2012 @ 04:43 PM by Trueman
Originally posted by Christosterone
Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Unlike our 'modern' selves they have had thousands of years to prefect masonry.

I have always wondered what America or Coyo might have been like if the white man didnt destroy the inhabitants, their culture and their records.

These people were living far more advanced and had forms of government and great structures, clean and more healithier than London at the same time.


I hate to burst your bubble but when the Spaniards met the Aztecs, they were long since bereft of any humanity.
Their entire existence was based on a cult of death and sacrifice.
They were killing off their population by the thousands in order to appease non-existent gods.

The Olmecs and Maya of the earlier age(s) were enlightened and seemingly on pace with European societal evolution(Romans notwithstanding).
However, something happened along their evolutionary path where they turned on each other and subsequently devolved to the murderous barbarians encountered by Cortez.

-Chris


You made a mistake :

- Vilabamba has nothing to do with the Mayas or the Olmecs or the Aztecs. Those are different cultures, nothing to do with the Incas.

- Vilcabamba is not in Central America neither. Vilcabamba is probably located between Bolivia and Peru. That's a big difference.

- The conquistador leading the spaniards against the Incas was Pizarro, no Cortez.

Are you sure you read the initial post of the thread?


reply posted on 23-5-2012 @ 05:35 PM by Christosterone
reply to post by Trueman


My bad....i knew that but skimmed it so fast i didnt really pay attention


reply posted on 31-5-2012 @ 09:57 AM by Heliocentric
Interesting,

Although the 'lost city' isn't really lost. If I'm to believe my Peruvian fellow archaeologists, the site of the capital (of Vilcabamba) is most probably the ruins of Choquequirao (and if not, then what are the ruins of Choquequirao?).

There are not that many options, and there probably will not be that many more discoveries of large, imposing structures such as fortresses or other royal Inca buildings in this area. The Andes is a highland region (3400m above sea level), there's no real jungle to talk about, only scarcely forested areas and barren landscapes (due to the thin atmosphere). The environment simply does not conceal ruins with dense tropical jungle as it often does in lowland areas of Mexico or Belize.

I came back three days ago from the Cusco region, and what is above all fascinating (to me) is the extent of the ancient Inca kingdom. Basically every hill side in the so called Sacred Valley region (between Cusco and Machu Picchu) show signs of abandoned terrassed cultivations, which means that population demographics and distribution has changed drastically since. There's plenty more to discover about the Incas, but I would believe we're talking agricultural infra-structure rather than magnificent palaces and temples.

The reason why you haven't heard anything new about these ruins is most certainly because the archaeological departments (in Peru and elsewhere) are the most under-financed institutions of most universities. They simply do not have the money or the man-power in order to conduct some serious work. At least that's my guess.
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