Obama wanting debt limit hike with no cuts ‘almost took my breath away’

reply to post by braindeadconservatives

So you think it is logical to cut the amount of money in the economy when there is already a lack

This shows me that you do not understand everything I have been trying to explain to you and the role the Federal Reserve has in allowing Congress to spend on anything it wants without any real responsibility and to make the taxpayers pick up the tab while the private bankers get income from the usury system of fractional reserve banking and interest payments. The problem is not that there isn't enough money in the system, the problem is that our federal govt has a bloated system allowing the welfare state to overload everything and inflating the currency causing the cost of living to go higher and the dollar value to go down.

What you don't seem to understand is that this is the mechanism by which even the big welfare statists get whatever they want while making the taxpayers pick up the tab.
By the way, for the record, G Edward Griffin used to be more Progressive, and he has given an excellent review of how the Fed works and how it was brought into being. Both parties are "party" to it.

Originally posted by braindeadconservatives
reply to post by jibeho

 

How about more revenue?

We have been cutting for three years-

Are you actually serious? I'm asking because it is frightening that you actually believe spending has been cut. We have cut nothing of significance. The only reason the deficit is down this year (not by much) is due to an increase in taxes, congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

The idea that austerity can be avoided is magical thinking. The real argument that is going on in Europe is should we impose it gradually or should we wait for utter collapse and have super austerity. That is the only real choices.

It really is to late to stop a collapse in the US also, we are just in too big a hole and we will be forced to only spend exactly what we take in and not a penny more. That will result in government spending being cut by 50%. Yes I know the deficit is 40% but it will be 50% due to less overall GDP when the government spending disappears. We could have easily stopped this from happening - maybe even as late as 2008, but it is literally impossible now.

reply to post by proximo

congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

If only the welfare statist Progressives would actually listen to Ryan and real conservatives instead of opposing everything and just spending without a budget.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by braindeadconservatives

 

So you think it is logical to cut the amount of money in the economy when there is already a lack

This shows me that you do not understand everything I have been trying to explain to you and the role the Federal Reserve has in allowing Congress to spend on anything it wants without any real responsibility and to make the taxpayers pick up the tab while the private bankers get income from the usury system of fractional reserve banking and interest payments. The problem is not that there isn't enough money in the system, the problem is that our federal govt has a bloated system allowing the welfare state to overload everything and inflating the currency causing the cost of living to go higher and the dollar value to go down.

What you don't seem to understand is that this is the mechanism by which even the big welfare statists get whatever they want while making the taxpayers pick up the tab.
By the way, for the record, G Edward Griffin used to be more Progressive, and he has given an excellent review of how the Fed works and how it was brought into being. Both parties are "party" to it.

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

What you talking about?

There wouldn't be so much welfare if the conservative didn't deregulate wall street and let them
rob America blind. You know the world is cause and effect... The GOP and CONSERVATIVE
knew damn well that America would have to pick up the tab for Bank Failings via FDIC but
they engineered the scheme to securitize fiat currency. Conservatives did that - really man
just stop talking to me already, please.

Originally posted by braindeadconservatives

So you think it is logical to cut the amount of money in the economy when there is already a lack
of it? I think you are confusing the model here, cutting the amount of income your business
generates, is not a way to generate more profit. Reducing the amount of money in the economy
now, will only reduce the amount of commerce, which will reduce hours and create more
contraction.

Can your small businesses do better if you cut the amount of money your customers have to spend?

Let's be logical - if America cuts unemployment entitlement right now, who is going to
buy the stuff that businesses sell??? It is not a magical question... the answer is
less people, which will reduce hours, which will result in businesses closing down...

Can't you see the logic in that?

There is no logic in spending borrowed money you know you can never pay back even if we DOUBLED the greatest growth in American history for DECADES. This will not happen - we have virtually no advantage over dozens of other counties in the world like we did after world war II when that growth occurred.

Let me bring this down to a personal level for you maybe you can understand it better.

16 trillion dollars debt
2.5 trillion income with a yearly expense of 3.9 trillion

Lets shrink the numbers to something you might comprehend.
Bob has 160,000 debt, he makes 25,000 dollars a year, but needs 39,000 a year to keep his home and feed his family. So somehow Bob has been able to borrow 14,000 a year for the last 4 years to meet his budget.

Bob has not cut his spending his whole adult life but has actually increased it every year, despite never increasing his wages more than a few hundred dollars at most.

So would you loan Bob money? Do you really think people will keep loaning money to Bob forever even though he has never paid ANY of his debt off, and never cut his spending?

If you were Bob's financial adviser would you advise him to keep borrowing money things will turn around, or would you advise him to declare bankruptcy?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by proximo

 

congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

If only the welfare statist Progressives would actually listen to Ryan and real conservatives instead of opposing everything and just spending without a budget.

I'm sorry Ryan is full of crap. His supposed budget cuts are a joke, he is obviously wanting to give the appearance of being concerned about the budget without actually proposing cutting much of anything. At least not nearly enough to have any prayer of avoiding a collapse. He seems to be nothing but a political opportunist to me.

reply to post by braindeadconservatives


What are YOU talking about? Don't you know that Barney Frank sat in the oversight committee telling us how everything in Fannie and Freddie was alright and that all that Clinton and Carter FORCING US lending institutions to give faulty loans was just fine and dandy? Then the Progressives try to blame the GOP for it by bringing up repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Are you going to sit there and blame 100 years of the welfare state on the GOP?

Easy way to stop spending... everyone lucky enough to work right now,
claim 76 on your w-2

the arrogance of human ignorance takes my breath away..

what the hell is money for anyway? to buy love? the love of food? the love of work? the love of technology?

buy your freedom with love, not money.

money has got to be the most idiotic interpretation of love the human race has ever come up with.

**Some** of you really remind me of my children... blame, blame, blame, no he did this, no he did it first, blah blah blah...

Take what could be a good conversation and ruin it with stupid attacks and your obsessive worship of elephants and donkeys.. Im sick to death of seeing this on ATS... how about coming up with some real solutions or ideas and stop this insane and childish blame game garbage. You want to know what the problem is in the US.. people like some of you.. demanding division and fighting. me versus you. Ego driven children. NOTHING will change in this nation until people grow the hell up and stop allowing THEM to manipulating you into hating yoru fellow American who just may not be or think exactly like you.

/rant

In the MSM its ONLY a choice of entitlements ( welfare, stamps, etc) or defense that needs to be cut. There is a whole lot more that can be cut and we can keep the horrible "entitlements" for our fellow Americans who have fallen on hard times, trim back defense spending... AND cut all of this BS we all shell out to support that really does nothing for our nation but suck us dry. Me? Id start with cracking down on welfare fraud, dismantling DHS and the Board of Education. Snip Snip Snip... pull troops home, end foreign aid until we can support ourselves as a country, and tell the UN to take a hike while we're at it.

Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by proximo

 

congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

If only the welfare statist Progressives would actually listen to Ryan and real conservatives instead of opposing everything and just spending without a budget.

I'm sorry Ryan is full of crap. His supposed budget cuts are a joke, he is obviously wanting to give the appearance of being concerned about the budget without actually proposing cutting much of anything. At least not nearly enough to have any prayer of avoiding a collapse. He seems to be nothing but a political opportunist to me.

No, wait, first you tell us that we must cut spending in order to stop the Greek style crisis from happening, but then you criticize the only Republican who is serious about cutting spending? Why? Because he is Republican conservative and he wants to cut welfare entitlements ? Because he won't cut necessary Defense Spending? Even Ron Paul is not for cutting defense spending we absolutely have to have.

But I would just love to hear your ideas on how Obama expects to get funding for his war in Libya? Hmmm? I am against that phony war too by the way.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by braindeadconservatives

 

What are YOU talking about? Don't you know that Barney Frank sat in the oversight committee telling us how everything in Fannie and Freddie was alright and that all that Clinton and Carter FORCING US lending institutions to give faulty loans was just fine and dandy? Then the Progressives try to blame the GOP for it by bringing up repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Are you going to sit there and blame 100 years of the welfare state on the GOP?

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

You are so disingenuous it is truly amazing -

Giving people home loans was not the problem - millions of people paid off their loans with out
crashing of the US economy Einstein. People who could not pay their loans were evicted and
the property was repossessed as it has been for time and memorial. The difference is the
GOP and American conservatives engineered the securitization of those loans as a financial
product, which was illegal prior to 1999, because it is a fraudulent concept.

You are so in the tank for the banks it is pathetic... you are just an unpaid shill preaching
against the people you are blowing smoke for, it is the most amazing and logic free
propaganda the world has every seen.

When the GOP once again engineers loopholes for the banks, global elites and multi national corporations,
what are you gonna do?

And how do you like NDAA?

You are being lead like a sheep by your collar.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by proximo

 

congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

If only the welfare statist Progressives would actually listen to Ryan and real conservatives instead of opposing everything and just spending without a budget.

I'm sorry Ryan is full of crap. His supposed budget cuts are a joke, he is obviously wanting to give the appearance of being concerned about the budget without actually proposing cutting much of anything. At least not nearly enough to have any prayer of avoiding a collapse. He seems to be nothing but a political opportunist to me.

No, wait, first you tell us that we must cut spending in order to stop the Greek style crisis from happening, but then you criticize the only Republican who is serious about cutting spending? Why? Because he is Republican conservative and he wants to cut welfare entitlements ? Because he won't cut necessary Defense Spending? Even Ron Paul is not for cutting defense spending we absolutely have to have.

But I would just love to hear your ideas on how Obama expects to get funding for his war in Libya? Hmmm? I am against that phony war too by the way.

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Greece is crashing because they cut too much which shut down their economy...Once England cut
their spending they went RIGHT BACK INTO the hole, double dip.

they can cut many things besides entitlements - like oil subsidies, banks subsidies and other
corporate welfare.

Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by braindeadconservatives
reply to post by jibeho

 

How about more revenue?

We have been cutting for three years-

Are you actually serious? I'm asking because it is frightening that you actually believe spending has been cut. We have cut nothing of significance. The only reason the deficit is down this year (not by much) is due to an increase in taxes, congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

The idea that austerity can be avoided is magical thinking. The real argument that is going on in Europe is should we impose it gradually or should we wait for utter collapse and have super austerity. That is the only real choices.

It really is to late to stop a collapse in the US also, we are just in too big a hole and we will be forced to only spend exactly what we take in and not a penny more. That will result in government spending being cut by 50%. Yes I know the deficit is 40% but it will be 50% due to less overall GDP when the government spending disappears. We could have easily stopped this from happening - maybe even as late as 2008, but it is literally impossible now.

Milton Friedmen conservative economist and darling would even disagree with you.

Listen to me -

If nobody replaces the lost economic output that occurs during a recession, the recession will
get worse and worse -

The Debt to GDP ratio was far higher after WWII BTW - what did America do???

Raised taxes

What happened?

The best economy America has ever seen

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by proximo

 

congress has cut nothing of significance despite the republican BS from Ryan and others.

If only the welfare statist Progressives would actually listen to Ryan and real conservatives instead of opposing everything and just spending without a budget.

I'm sorry Ryan is full of crap. His supposed budget cuts are a joke, he is obviously wanting to give the appearance of being concerned about the budget without actually proposing cutting much of anything. At least not nearly enough to have any prayer of avoiding a collapse. He seems to be nothing but a political opportunist to me.

No, wait, first you tell us that we must cut spending in order to stop the Greek style crisis from happening, but then you criticize the only Republican who is serious about cutting spending? Why? Because he is Republican conservative and he wants to cut welfare entitlements ? Because he won't cut necessary Defense Spending? Even Ron Paul is not for cutting defense spending we absolutely have to have.

But I would just love to hear your ideas on how Obama expects to get funding for his war in Libya? Hmmm? I am against that phony war too by the way.

edit on 19-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

First off I am no Democrat, but I'm not a Republican any more either because they are all lying fakes. Ryan is not serious that is why I am criticizing him. He is completely ignoring our inability to pay for medical care which must be tackled. He is lying saying we will continue to be able to afford what has been promised via Medicare to keep the senior vote. His budget includes absolutely stupid predictions like we can grow GDP at 5% a year for the next 40 years all an attempt to pretend his budget goes far enough. Even if you pretend that is possible - its not - Medicare costs have increased 9% per year since 1980.

As far as defense spending goes, I don't see why it couldn't be cut by 80%. As long as we have nukes no one will be invading, and I see no reason to be the aggressors anywhere.

I really think it's to late to get out of the hole we have dug, but if you are going to pretend your going to try at least be somewhat honest about it.

reply to post by braindeadconservatives


I disagree. The are other ways to keep up circulation without devaluing the dollar every year.

This is where we are headed. The whole world is headed this way. The whole thing has gotten out of hand and is now a run-a-way train. Nothing can stop as it heads down hill picking up speed. It will only stop when it crashes. All we can do is hold on for the ride of our life.