OP/ED: Presidential Debate Coverage 2004 - Miami - Kerry Wins, page 4
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reply posted on 1-10-2004 @ 09:37 AM by Muaddib
Originally posted by dgtempe
May the best man win...and he did.

John F. Kerry is the clear winner here. He defended his attitude towards his agreement for war in Iraq, the cause, HOWEVER, as he plainly stated many times, he does NOT agree in the manner which Bush and his people went about the war. This is VERY clear.
He IS a diplomatic leader, a real patriot who will go after the source> Osama BinLaden and those directly connected with 911.


I did not see the presidential coverage, as i got home i just went straight to bed.

Anyways, first, Nerdling...i did not see in the forums any open requests that there was going to be a debate between members and did not see any calls for republicans, I haven't checked the boards either in two days, so that might be a reason, more so if the open thread was not a stiky. Althou a 2-3 day warning, if that was the case, is not enough since we have people in these boards who have different schedules. So i have no idea why you say "no other Republican was willing to take part." Now, if we bring this in the open some democrats refer to it as "whining".....

Second, dgtemple...This is not the first time that Kerry has been caught supporting both sides of an issue... almost any issue, except when it comes to bashing whatever president is in office.

Lets see what Kerry said in the first Gulf War...



"Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war."

"--letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991]

"Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush's response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf."

"--Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]"


Excerpted from.
www.technicianonline.com...

Humm, one letter is "against a resolution giving the president immediate authority to go to war...the other one is a letter where he says he "unequivocally supported president Bush's response...with the military deployment

Way to go Kerry....

Note also that it was a democrat, JFK who started the conflict in Vietnam, a conflict Kerry opposed, nearly every major conflict we have been in was started by democrats.

Now, lets see what Kerry has said about the latest war in Iraq.

TIM RUSSERT: “Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?”

KERRY: “No. I think we should increase it.”

RUSSERT: “Increase funding?”

KERRY: “Yes.”

RUSSERT: “By how much?”

KERRY: “By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim.”

Kerry then voted against the Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package on Oct. 17, 2003. And to clarify all of this, Kerry offers the subtle interpretation on Mar. 17, 2004 that “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.” This culminates in a complete reversal of opinion… all in seven months time.


Excerpted from.
www.technicianonline.com...

Lets see what else he has said.

JOHN KERRY TODAY: "For a President, the decision may be lonely, but that does not mean that America should go it alone." (John Kerry, Remarks At George Washington University, Washington, DC, 3/17/04)

JOHN KERRY 2002: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act." (John Kerry, Op-Ed, "We Still Have A Choice On Iraq," The New York Times, 9/6/02)


Excerpted from.
www.rnc.org...

Here is another link to some quotes by democrats and some republicans on what they said about Saddam, wmd and the need to use force to disarm Saddam...
www.coverups.com...


reply posted on 1-10-2004 @ 03:36 PM by Amorymeltzer
Gazrok, i noticed the same thing. i was sure bush would hammer kerry for that, decrying the lack of body armor yet voting against the 87B. he didnt, and that could have been a good hit for him.

One thing i think about the debates is that, really, they arent for those of us who have made up our minds already. seeing bush 'ponder' or trip over UBL and saddam wont make us hate him, seeing kerry spend far more time explaining that he had a plan rather than state it wont make us hate him, thats why we're the 'decided.' what really matters are those who have yet to make up their mind, who find themselves on the fence, or werent considering voting at all. to them, bush's constant hammering in of key points stays in ones mind, and they will stick. kerry had a number of chances for fantastic slogans, but he botched them. his strongest phrase of the night was "i will hunt down and kill the terrorists" which was strong enough to exude the nutso vietnam veteran aura.

a word or two on presentation. i laughed, noticing bush drinking the water (imediately thought about the watch) but they caught him three times. and, each time, it didnt look bad on him. to drink the water, he had to look in kerry's direction, so it seemed like he was taking a sip of water, while still tyring to pay attention (who knows if he really was). it made him seem more human, which was present throughout the night. the blue tie was much softer, warmer for the people. leaning on the podium with his arm made it much more like a covnersation with the president, like the fireside chats of FDR (good ol days). and, of course, his person, overall body language, choice of words, and dialect just ring out of a good friend and yourself talking.

kerry's height did not seem to be too key. walking out, he was taller, but it really did not seem to be too much (its only 5 inches, really). but, on the podium, kerry spent most of his time looking at lehrer, which was odd as he should be looking at the camera. his hand motions were good, i thought, did a lot if one noticed them to do away with his rigid boring stick figure persona. the oddest thing was that his height seemed to actually impair him; he had to look down to jim, and constantly did so, shading his eyes and creating a very sketchy image.

more issues. Bush brought a lot of facts out of nowhere to disprove kerry in a heartbeat, and kerry really had only his 13 yrs vs. 4 yrs thing. the sudanese genocide was a tough issue because something of that caliber really only can be answered in one way. kerry did a good job, however, of explaining the differences between bush's plan for nuclear proliferation and his own. he also, on at least two occasions, but i am sure more, twisted bush's catchphrases (namely flip-flopper and mixed message) against him. i would have liked to see more substantial evidence from kerry, but his two lists were very good, one for bush's 'colossal error in judgment' and the other about how bush was untruthful.

johnkerry.com was a badly placed plug. i hated his 'outsourcing' of the capture of UBL, that was bs. tried to use outsource (he knows the word carries weight) in a terrible context, and on a stupid charge. 'bush got help.' gee, thats terrible. when bush mixed up saddam and UBL that one time, that was wild. did he really do that? freudian slip, man, those are deadly (ask my ex). bush needed to have a comeback to kerry quip about his father, but he didnt. major loss there.

at the very end, the women wearing white? wtf? you dont wear white after labor day, especially if ur a rich, cultured wife of someone running for president. also, it was very interesting to see kerry with teresa, but bush with the entire nuclear family. that was a huge mind-blowing difference, i bet kerry brings in the girls for next week.
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