reply to post by seabag
I'll start with your mention of "socialism".
This is the problem here, too many people are calling everything an ism because it's easy for them to do.
In the UK we have a conservative government, Cameron has advised spending to bailout Greece (he hasn't said that exactly, but it's obvious what he
means when he says that the nations of the Eurozone have to help each other to grow out of this problem). Cameron himself is against government
spending to grow out of our own problems. In the UK, government spending is a drop in the ocean compared to the banking debt of this country. That is
what they are not telling us.
Lets also remember that Bush, a conservative, started the bailing out in the US. That is socialism for the bankers. Obama is planning Austerity cuts
too, that is conservatism.
The labels of socialism, communism, capitalism... none of them means anything anymore. You have socialism when it benefits the wealthy, capitalism for
the poor, it makes no difference who is in power or what their political opinions are, they are all owned and follow instruction.
Secondly, on your opinion that spending is not valid...
If the wealth of the people is being extracted from your country, the money is remaining in the upper economy (the banks and corporations), how is a
nation supposed to grow through austerity alone? I agree that cuts need to be made, but the fundamental problem of wealth extraction has not been
People are still shopping at a corporate chain, that money is leaving their community and being hoarded or spent only in the upper economy.
If you buy from a chain, that money then leaves your state/city for a bank account in the Camen Islands. That money is then shared out in percentages,
say 40% goes to paying staff, 10% goes to paying the CEO and senior staff, 20% goes to investors and stock holders, 20% goes to the continuation of
business (stock etc), 5% goes into holding, 5% goes into paying taxes.
Only 40% has gone back to the floor in the form of wages and is back in any community, thinned out across a larger area. Now imagine that over the
course of decades, with thousands of corporate businesses doing exactly the same.
This is one of the fundamental causes of the economic inequality. Money and wealth is systematically stripped out of the communities and funneled
upward. Over a couple of decades, that wealth extraction becomes a major problem for the communities where investment is not present.
So, now you have entire communities where companies will not invest, where banks will not release loans for small business to grow, where people only
have their state benefits to live on. Unemployment is rising, homelessness increasing, crime rates going up, policing being cut, education being cut,
medical services being cut, charities struggling...
Without spending anything, how do you encourage economic growth in those areas? Do you ask businesses to invest, politely request that bankers start
lending again? Well, that's worked remarkably well so far!
In my opinion, we need a good mix of austerity (to include government wages and corporate taxation!) a share of reasonable spending in the right
places, and new measures to prevent the ongoing extraction of wealth.
Ultimately, it won't make a lot of difference, because like you I believe that we are heading into the endgame and any fixes we put in place now are
nothing more than sticking plasters on a decapitation. There is a massive implosion coming.
As for when that comes, I think it's a little too unpredictable to say. Many of us thought it would have happened by now, but governments keep
creating spectacular new ways to keep the game going for a little bit longer. Even if it means just printing more money, that's not beyond the realms
We know that another bailout of Greece is plausible, and we know that Spain and Italy are likely to need the same. No one can afford that, unless they
start the printing presses to do it. If it means covering up the collapse for another six months I really wouldn't put it past them.
In my personal opinion, I believe that the governments will do whatever it takes to keep the game going. They've basically said that this is the
plan. I think it's going to be the people making that decision for them. Greece is now doing that, making demands of their government to end it.
I think we'll see a revolution in Europe, in Spain, Italy, Greece and France. And I think that will cause the implosion of the global banking system,
spreading the collapse to the US.
I guess we'll have to wait and see when that happens. It could be this summer, but they could get away with another temporary measure and delay it