The Mormon Church is a Cult

I'd like to publicly apologize to this forum/thread and in particular to PurpleChiten and Annee. I went back and reread all my statements to see where things ran afoul and I know that it's sometimes harder to get a point across than we think. I honestly only posted to this thread to try and understand more about the LDS faith as it related to how I understand it (from reading about it and talking with some mormon friends). I have nothing against LDS, nor any other faith for that matter. We're all trying to do our best within the given time. I'm sorry if what I posted was offensive, hurtful or negative in any way to anyone here.

PurpleChiten, I sent you a private apology a couple hours ago via the ATS messaging system. I wanted to make sure you saw it since I know I don't always get alerted when I have a message here.

That said, I've learned a lot from this thread - in particular about arianism (which I started a separate thread on; OP - sorry for cluttering your thread with it initially). I've also learned to make certain my points are clear and to simply post/speak less and listen more.

About 9 hours for anyone who was counting

Originally posted by Logmafia

Originally posted by earthdude
The whole religion seems to be inspired by a magic mushroom trip in upstate New York..

It seems closer to sleep paralysis with hypnagogic hallucinations.

He is praying when he gets attacked by an unknown power that made it so he couldn't move or speak. Sounds like pretty typical sleep paralysis.

It seems closer to an abduction or "benevolent" ET intervention.

If you actually read/study the history with an open mind (not believer or skeptic) - - - the history/story is fascinating.

I'm one who leans toward the Watchers. Earth/humans being created/evolved by off planet beings more evolved.

If you read this passage from the viewpoint of a Light Being/Energy Being - - it makes far more sense then if you read it from the viewpoint of earth bound human: "Do not desist from seeking by day and by night, until you find the purifying mysteries of the light, which refine the body of matter and make it a pure light very refined."

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
That said, I've learned a lot from this thread - in particular about arianism (which I started a separate thread on; OP - sorry for cluttering your thread with it initially). I've also learned to make certain my points are clear and to simply post/speak less and listen more.

There is nothing better then an open mind - - at least willing to listen to differences and new things.

Its how I began.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
That said, I've learned a lot from this thread - in particular about arianism (which I started a separate thread on; OP - sorry for cluttering your thread with it initially). I've also learned to make certain my points are clear and to simply post/speak less and listen more.

There is nothing better then an open mind - - at least willing to listen to differences and new things.

Its how I began.

Thank you for the response, Annee. My mind has always been open (it's just my mouth that screws things up from time to time). In fact, I think it was open-mindedness that drew me to medicine and science in general. If we're not learning, we're dying, no?

Again, thank you for the kind response.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard


Thank you for the response, Annee. My mind has always been open (it's just my mouth that screws things up from time to time). In fact, I think it was open-mindedness that drew me to medicine and science in general. If we're not learning, we're dying, no?

Again, thank you for the kind response.

Everyone is given initial trust, they can preserve that trust or they can detract from it. You are in the negative column at the moment, but it doesn't mean you can't recover. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. It will take much work and effort to regain what you threw away, but it is possible. The choice is yours.

**scratch that, I don't appreicate stalking and you most likely will not regain trust with that practice.

Is anyone here actually currently a practicing member of LDS?

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
Is anyone here actually currently a practicing member of LDS?

There are some on ATS.

Do you have a question?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
Is anyone here actually currently a practicing member of LDS?

There are some on ATS.

Do you have a question?

Just wondered if any were posting to/ reading this thread. I'd like to find more info from LDS sources regarding their explanation of acceptance of Arianism. There must be some scholarly documentation regarding that (as opposed to just general Internet blogosphere op-ed).

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
Is anyone here actually currently a practicing member of LDS?

There are some on ATS.

Do you have a question?

Just wondered if any were posting to/ reading this thread. I'd like to find more info from LDS sources regarding their explanation of acceptance of Arianism. There must be some scholarly documentation regarding that (as opposed to just general Internet blogosphere op-ed).

I never heard of such a thing. Why are you hung up on that?

One of the reasons they were able to cross the wilderness to Utah is because they treated the Native Americans as equal. (yes there was at least one exception - where a Mormon group attacked a group of natives). And yes there were blacks in those early wagon train crossings.

The healthy looking blonde white Mormon is a stereotype - - - because many in Utah are descendent from the large influx of Germany and Sweden in its early years.

The fastest growing Mormon members are Islanders - - such as Somoans.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This seems to be an interesting site. REMEMBER - - when reading about Mormons - there is a lot of crap mis-information. You must read - - then read opposing opinions and everything in-between. Getting to real honest fact is like peeling an onion.

www.libertypages.com...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
Is anyone here actually currently a practicing member of LDS?

There are some on ATS.

Do you have a question?

Just wondered if any were posting to/ reading this thread. I'd like to find more info from LDS sources regarding their explanation of acceptance of Arianism. There must be some scholarly documentation regarding that (as opposed to just general Internet blogosphere op-ed).

I never heard of such a thing. Why are you hung up on that?

One of the reasons they were able to cross the wilderness to Utah is because they treated the Native Americans as equal. (yes there was at least one exception - where a Mormon group attacked a group of natives). And yes there were blacks in those early wagon train crossings.

The healthy looking blonde white Mormon is a stereotype - - - because many in Utah are descendent from the large influx of Germany and Sweden in its early years.

The fastest growing Mormon members are Islanders - - such as Somoans.

You're talking about Aryanism. That's quite different from Arianism. Someone else made the same mistake on the thread I started today on the topic. I have no interest in Aryanism.

reply to post by HardToStarboard


These ideas of Arianism comes from an individual who attempted to effect the canons. Joseph Smith got his info, in person, from an angel, and the gold tablets, as I understand.

Joseph Smith believed and taught that God was once an earthly human, who found ascension, and eventually left Earth and now inhabits another planet. Jesus is God's son, who he sent, from his planet, to teach and assist humans. How is that Arian?

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

You're talking about Aryanism. That's quite different from Arianism. Someone else made the same mistake on the thread I started today on the topic. I have no interest in Aryanism.

OH OK

I was actually looking it up to read about it. I do normally check first and do my homework.

Here: www.libertypages.com...

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

These ideas of Arianism comes from an individual who attempted to effect the canons. Joseph Smith got his info, in person, from an angel, and the gold tablets, as I understand.

Joseph Smith believed and taught that God was once an earthly human, who found ascension, and eventually left Earth and now inhabits another planet. Jesus is God's son, who he sent, from his planet, to teach and assist humans. How is that Arian?

It's Arian because LDS is stating the same thing that Arius introduced.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

You're talking about Aryanism. That's quite different from Arianism. Someone else made the same mistake on the thread I started today on the topic. I have no interest in Aryanism.

OH OK

I was actually looking it up to read about it. I do normally check first and do my homework.

Here: www.libertypages.com...

That's excellent. Thank you. You're the first and only person thus far to understand the question and respond with something meaningful.

This article is exactly what I was looking for and is quite surprising given what I've read on LDS sites thus far.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

This article is exactly what I was looking for and is quite surprising given what I've read on LDS sites thus far.

No prob.

I've been doing this so long -- I can pretty much pick a site/article that doesn't set off the BS meter.

But still be diligently cautious not to out right accept anything as 100% fact. It is still someone's opinion.

reply to post by HardToStarboard


I was going to edit my post to add this, but I'll just make this new post, since you answered already.

God Was Once a Man

As we discussed earlier, Mormon theology teaches that there is a plurality of gods. All gods were once mortal men on other planets who, through obedience to the commands of their God, attained exaltation or godhood. All Mormon men have the potential of attaining godhood as well.
God's progression from man to God is clearly stated throughout Mormon literature. Joseph Smith wrote:

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . . He was once a man like us; yea that God himself, the Father dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. . . .[10] wri.leaderu.com...

and this:

Doctrine of the Trinity

Christians and Mormons share many similar theological terms. We both refer to God, salvation, and heaven. However, the words often have radically different meanings. Such is the case with the doctrine of the Trinity. Biblical Christianity teaches there is one God eternally coexisting in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. As we will see, the Mormon view of the Godhead is quite different.
The Mormons reject the traditional Christian view of the Trinity as being in error. Joseph Smith wrote,

Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster. (Joseph Smith, Teachings, 372

Did Arius teach this?

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

These ideas of Arianism comes from an individual who attempted to effect the canons. Joseph Smith got his info, in person, from an angel, and the gold tablets, as I understand.

Joseph Smith believed and taught that God was once an earthly human, who found ascension, and eventually left Earth and now inhabits another planet. Jesus is God's son, who he sent, from his planet, to teach and assist humans. How is that Arian?

It's Arian because LDS is stating the same thing that Arius introduced.

Incorrect, and if you did the research you only CLAIM you did, you would know that.
Also, stop stalking me and putting my name on other threads you write. I find it highly offensive, not to mention downright CREEPY!

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

This article is exactly what I was looking for and is quite surprising given what I've read on LDS sites thus far.

No prob.

I've been doing this so long -- I can pretty much pick a site/article that doesn't set off the BS meter.

But still be diligently cautious not to out right accept anything as 100% fact. It is still someone's opinion.

Oh dear god, I rarely accept ANYTHING as 100% fact, I'm a scientist. ;-)

The site does have a scholarly quality to it. You can tell that the writer is doing real research and not what 99% of the Internet thinks is research. In fact, he reminds me a bit of my favorite modern theologian, Fr. Robert Barron.

It seems that he's rejecting Arian notions. Further he seems to state that a lot of Mormons suffer from the same thing that we Catholics suffer from - not understanding fully what we believe. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "cradle Catholics" make statements about the faith that don't reflect what the Church teaches.

Again, thank you.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


You blew his mind! He never heard of this idea before. NotYourTypical set him straight and told him there are a lot of posters on ATS making threads on this very topic. You're not the only one. Not the first or will you be the last to proffer this info.