The Mormon Church is a Cult

Instead of just spewing out what your opinion of Mormons may be even though you've never actually met any, never actually spoken to any, never looked at their own testimony but rely instead on the hatred and vitrol spewed by the very, VERY new fundamental evangelical preachers popping up all over the place with their little cults, why don't you go to the SOURCE, read, investigate, learn, THEN you can decide what they are from actual knowledge instead of your opinion based on what somebody else who hates them (because of what somebody else told them...on down the line) has told you?
Oh wait, that would require effort and thinking. Heaven forbid anyone actually try to seek out factual information when there are so many hate-filled lies out there that come landing in your lap

Here, this is a good place to start. Read the whole thing before you start jumping up and screaming about it, then read a little more and look at other sources they provide for your understanding and once you've grasped it, THEN you can debate it instead of just attacking on your own personal bias that has built up over your lifetime from never once, not one single time, looking at the source.

You don't have to like it, but at least don't lie about it because you're too lazy to find the truth.

mormon.org...

www.lds.org...

reply to post by PurpleChiten


just a personal story...

i recently was renting in a beach house in orange county. i had 3 roommates, one was mormon the rest were not religious at all... including myself. this guy was unemployed, he kept quitting his jobs because he insisted everyone he worked with were bad people.(true story) the cherry on the top was when the landlord saw him out in town with some of his mormon friends and said "HI" later that day he came home and yelled at the 71 year old retiree for speaking to him in front of his friends. he said "i don't want to be associated with your kind in public.
he then warned everyone else in the house not to ever speak of him or tell anyone we lived in the same house.
i believe he said he was an elder in the church, whatever that means.

his attitude and behavior was disgusting, insulting, and rude to anyone that wasn't mormon.
if you read my previous post you would understand better what this so called "mormon" thing is...
the guy who started the religion "joseph smith" said the virgin mary spoke to him and god made golden tablets that only he could see come out of the river and told him to start a religion.. pretty silly if you ask me .
fast forward to 2012 and i have a roommate that says anyone that isint mormon is a scumbag and a terrible person. this is a perfect example of how stupid and shallow humans can be over religion.

you know what i say ATS?

"pics or it didnt happen"





fyi: i never told him i was born where his religion started, i just kept it to myself and smiled



they come by the bus load to this place in the river, just to humor yourself use the google map function to see how many mormon churches are in the area..... there is one.. and its for the mormom tourists.
as compared to 40 or 50 churches of all other kinds. the numbers dont lie, and joseph smith is looked at as a kook in the region where he said he was baptized by god. this is no different that scientology as far as im concerned. its one mans delusion and was somehow carried on through the years to the point where now they believe they are the "correct" religion and everyone else is wrong.
www.visitpa.com...

Originally posted by spaceg0at
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

just a personal story...

i recently was renting in a beach house in orange county. i had 3 roommates, one was mormon the rest were not religious at all... including myself. this guy was unemployed, he kept quitting his jobs because he insisted everyone he worked with were bad people.(true story) the cherry on the top was when the landlord saw him out in town with some of his mormon friends and said "HI"

later that day he came home and yelled at the 71 year old retiree for speaking to him in front of his friends. he said "i don't want to be associated with your kind in public.
he then warned everyone else in the house not to ever speak of him or tell anyone we lived in the same house.
i believe he said he was an elder in the church, whatever that means.

his attitude and behavior was disgusting, insulting, and rude to anyone that wasn't mormon.
if you read my previous post you would understand better what this so called "mormon" thing is...
the guy who started the religion "joseph smith" said the virgin mary spoke to him and god made golden tablets that only he could see come out of the river and told him to start a religion.. pretty silly if you ask me .
fast forward to 2012 and i have a roommate that says anyone that isint mormon is a scumbag and a terrible person. this is a perfect example of how stupid and shallow humans can be over religion.

you know what i say ATS?

"pics or it didnt happen"

fyi: i never told him i was born where his religion started, i just kept it to myself and smiled

Sounds like the guy was a nutjob and it had nothing to do with his religion.
No, Joseph Smith did not speak to the virgin mary, it was the angel Moroni, at least get it right if you're going to bash it :/

im not bashing anything, please forgive my mistake.

its still a hard story to buy either way. all im sayin

Originally posted by spaceg0at
im not bashing anything, please forgive my mistake.

its still a hard story to buy either way. all im sayin

I understand...

We don't have to believe it, but we shouldn't tell them they can't believe it. Who knows, they may be right, then we'd be majorly screwed!
We just have to remember that we can't base an entire group on our experience with a few people who may be part of it. Regardless of what the group is, people are still people and there are good ones and bad ones in each and every group that exists.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Can you provide a reference showing LDS doesn't deny that Jesus is God? I would truly be interested in seeing that from an LDS source or one that cites them directly.

Yeah, it's on their homepage. mormon.org...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the official name of the religion commonly called the Mormon Church. We believe first and foremost that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and the Son of God.

That's still not saying that they believe He IS God. Calling Him the Son of God isn't the same as the phrase accepted in The Creed. I would still be interested in a valid reference stating the fact unequivocally. Until then I'll stand by the reference I provided and by the notion that LDS is not fully a Christian religion. To deny that Christ is God is to deny the very core of the Christian faith.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by HardToStarboard


I would concede that their TEACHINGS may, in fact, be "very Christian." However, the fact that Jesus in Mormon teaching is not "true God and true man" but rather a created being negates any Mormon from truly professing to be a Christian.

Dude - - YOUR guy was born of a virgin impregnated by God.

How insane and stupid that one myth decries another wrong.

These debates are many things; insane and/or stupid are not on that list. Back to the question posed by my reference - Jesus, true God and true man? Yes or no?

There is NO one true God.

Oh Yes indeed it is insane and stupid to pit one unprovable myth against another.

Each myth stands only by faith in that belief. Not by any tangible reality.

Its like saying Santa Claus is real - - but the Easter Bunny is not.

So you're an atheist or agnostic? I was under the impression you were Mormon. Perhaps you stated in the thread that you've walked away from your faith and I completely missed reading that. I can fully appreciate that as I know our personal faith can be quite a struggle. I truly wish you well.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Can you provide a reference showing LDS doesn't deny that Jesus is God? I would truly be interested in seeing that from an LDS source or one that cites them directly.

Yeah, it's on their homepage. mormon.org...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the official name of the religion commonly called the Mormon Church. We believe first and foremost that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and the Son of God.

That's still not saying that they believe He IS God. Calling Him the Son of God isn't the same as the phrase accepted in The Creed. I would still be interested in a valid reference stating the fact unequivocally. Until then I'll stand by the reference I provided and by the notion that LDS is not fully a Christian religion. To deny that Christ is God is to deny the very core of the Christian faith.

The Bible itself doesn't say he IS God, maybe those who think he is are the actual cult....
In fact, the bible makes specific statements about him and the "father" and they are clearly separated. He even prays to God, is he praying to himself? Why would he do that? The trinity is not in the bible, it is inferred by religion.
So no, the core of the Christian faith is NOT that Christ is God.
The Core of the Christian faith is (the Creed you are referring to incorrectly)
I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth; And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; the third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

It clearly states that Christ and "God" are two separate entities but the idea of the Holy Trinity was created by PEOPLE, not by God and certainly not by Christ who said there was no way to the father except through him, differentiating the two.

Perhaps you don't believe they are Christian because you don't know what a Christian is?

Here's the "Catholic Version" for you since I see you are a Catholic:
I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen


Now how could he be seated at the right hand of God if he IS God????

He is the Son of God, not God the father and they are not one and the same.

reply to post by HardToStarboard


I don't know where you got your indoctrination or when it became acceptable to require the belief that Jesus and god are one in the same. They are not in most sects of Christianity.

Jesus prayed to god to "take this cup away." Jesus called god his father. Why would Satan test Jesus, if he was god? Jesus never claimed to be god, but the son of god, as are we all.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate with you over this, because I don't care what you believe, but there are many Christians who believe differently than you, doesn't mean that they aren't Christians.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

I don't know where you got your indoctrination or when it became acceptable to require the belief that Jesus and god are one in the same. They are not in most sects of Christianity.

Jesus prayed to god to "take this cup away." Jesus called god his father. Why would Satan test Jesus, if he was god? Jesus never claimed to be god, but the son of god, as are we all.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate with you over this, because I don't care what you believe, but there are many Christians who believe differently than you, doesn't mean that they aren't Christians.

By the definition he's trying to give, none of the Christians are Christian, especially the Catholics since their Roman Rite Creed clearly states that Christ is the Son of God, not God himself

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I know. He must belong to some fringe cult, huh?

The biggest difference in Catholics and Mormons that I have experienced in working with both groups is that the Catholics worship Mary and Mormons focus on Christ. Otherwise, they have a LOT in common that neither side will admit.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

I know. He must belong to some fringe cult, huh?

Yup, he's definitely a member of a cult if he can't even admit that Christ is the Son of God

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

I don't know where you got your indoctrination or when it became acceptable to require the belief that Jesus and god are one in the same. They are not in most sects of Christianity.

Jesus prayed to god to "take this cup away." Jesus called god his father. Why would Satan test Jesus, if he was god? Jesus never claimed to be god, but the son of god, as are we all.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate with you over this, because I don't care what you believe, but there are many Christians who believe differently than you, doesn't mean that they aren't Christians.

By the definition he's trying to give, none of the Christians are Christian, especially the Catholics since their Roman Rite Creed clearly states that Christ is the Son of God, not God himself

Respectfully, the following is the full Nicean Creed that we say in Mass daily/weekly. In the latest missal changes that began last fall you'll noticed the newly translated word Consubstantial (I'll talk about that after pasting in the Creed):

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit
was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son
is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy,
catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism
for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I would now reference Father Romanus Cessario as he talks about the word Consubstatial:

"For the last 40 years or so, Catholics have become accustomed to express their belief in the sameness of the Father and the Son by the expression, "one in Being with the Father." This translation came about because certain experts had opined that a literal translation of the Latin term "consubstanialem," that is, consubstanital, would be too unfamiliar to the everyday churchgoer.
However, the expression "one in Being with the Father" does not translate "consubstantialem." The expression is too vague. Since God creates and sustains all that exists, everything in some sense can be said to be one in being with God. Not that everything is the divine nature but that everything outside of God remains dependent on the divine nature for its borrowed existence. The sameness that the Eternal Son enjoys with the Father is not like that. Instead, this sameness arises from the specific substance or nature of the Godhead. Catholic faith holds that each of the three Divine Persons share one and the same divine nature or substance. Just as the mystery of the Blessed Trinity stands at the heart of our belief, so also it grounds our salvation.
The Greek expression adopted at the Council of Nicaea is "homoousious," which is translated into English as "con-substantial." The Eternal Son, who was born of the Virgin Mary, is neither "like" the Father nor "practically the same substance" as the Father. The Eternal Son enjoys the very same substance as the Father. The Son possesses fully the Godhead of the Father. So today, the Church again confesses in the English rendition of the Creed that Jesus Christ is "consubstantial with the Father."

The reference for this commentary can be found here:

www.romanmissalchanges.com...

So the fact that Jesus is both true God and true man and literally consubstantial with the Father is, indeed a very important aspect of Christian faith. It is the crux of Christianity. If He were not God Himself (i.e. - God Incarnate - made flesh) then the work on the cross of Calvary would have no effect.

I fully respect your right to vehemently disagree with or deny this fact. We all have to answer His question of "Who do men say that I am?" I've answered it in my own heart.

reply to post by HardToStarboard


What you posted clearly states Christ is the Son of God, not God himself. You go on to say that in the past 40 years, that your cult has decided that they're really the same thing, only different, but still the same while being different... yeah, right..uh huh... Sounds like you're the one in the cult and not Christian, not the Mormons

One thing that always makes me chuckle when this topic arises...

Some of the strongest bashers of the LDS faith believe wholeheartedly in the Bible, many in a literal interpretation. So they are down with stories like:

A guy getting swallowed whole by a whale then puked up on shore unscathed. (Jonah)
Charlton Heston parting the Red Sea, after turning the Nile to blood and smiting Egypt. (Moses)
An army circling a city for a week blowing horns, which topples the walls of said city. (Israelites)
Some poor chap being abused in a wager between God and the devil. (Job)

...oh and

A really famous guy walking on water, healing untreatable diseases and (oh yeah) allowing Himself to die for our sins, and then coming back to life.

But WHOA! God commanding one dude to hide some books of non-corrosive metal and then commanding another dude to find them a thousand years later? THAT is just crazy talk!

Originally posted by blamethegreys
One thing that always makes me chuckle when this topic arises...

Some of the strongest bashers of the LDS faith believe wholeheartedly in the Bible, many in a literal interpretation. So they are down with stories like:

A guy getting swallowed whole by a whale then puked up on shore unscathed. (Jonah)
Charlton Heston parting the Red Sea, after turning the Nile to blood and smiting Egypt. (Moses)
An army circling a city for a week blowing horns, which topples the walls of said city. (Israelites)
Some poor chap being abused in a wager between God and the devil. (Job)

...oh and

A really famous guy walking on water, healing untreatable diseases and (oh yeah) allowing Himself to die for our sins, and then coming back to life.

But WHOA! God commanding one dude to hide some books of non-corrosive metal and then commanding another dude to find them a thousand years later? THAT is just crazy talk!

He probably thinks archeologists are cultists too since they dig stuff up like that guy did with those "demonic plates"! If only more people would molest children like his bishops do all the time, God would forgive us all and we could finally get to heaven

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

What you posted clearly states Christ is the Son of God, not God himself. You go on to say that in the past 40 years, that your cult has decided that they're really the same thing, only different, but still the same while being different... yeah, right..uh huh... Sounds like you're the one in the cult and not Christian, not the Mormons

It absolutely states that He is the Son of God. You're fully correct. But the portion, "God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
consubstantial with the Father;" is indicative that the Church believes Jesus is God, as did the Apostles, as has 2000 years of church history.

I understand your difficulty with Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father being different, but the same (three, but one). It's always been difficult. It always will be.

You sound like a fine person. I wish you every happiness in life and hope that whatever faith you choose to follow (even if the form is absence of faith) brings you some measure of satisfaction. It's difficult to judge the measure of a person on these forums since we're reduced to an anonymous avatar, but if you ever find yourself in New Orleans and want to talk about faith (maybe over a beer and some good food) the tab will be on me. Take care.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

What you posted clearly states Christ is the Son of God, not God himself. You go on to say that in the past 40 years, that your cult has decided that they're really the same thing, only different, but still the same while being different... yeah, right..uh huh... Sounds like you're the one in the cult and not Christian, not the Mormons

It absolutely states that He is the Son of God. You're fully correct. But the portion, "God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
consubstantial with the Father;" is indicative that the Church believes Jesus is God, as did the Apostles, as has 2000 years of church history.

I understand your difficulty with Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father being different, but the same (three, but one). It's always been difficult. It always will be.

You sound like a fine person. I wish you every happiness in life and hope that whatever faith you choose to follow (even if the form is absence of faith) brings you some measure of satisfaction. It's difficult to judge the measure of a person on these forums since we're reduced to an anonymous avatar, but if you ever find yourself in New Orleans and want to talk about faith (maybe over a beer and some good food) the tab will be on me. Take care.

Nope, that part was added in much later.
I have no difficulty at all understanding your misconception of the trinity, I understand it very well, and reject it, however, you seem to have some issues with it and believe it just because it seems all "mysterious and Godly" to you just like your controllers wanted it to and you bought it hook, line and sinker.
It doesn't say they're one and the same, just that they are both Gods, one begotten from the other. Sounds like the Mormon concept is much closer to home then the concept you are trying to convey based on what you are saying.
sorry that the cult has dragged you in and is misleading you. If you ever wish to break away, we'll be glad to help you do so. You could also turn to other Good Christians like the Methodists, the Mormons, sevral other denominations out there that will help you undo the damage they have done. Good luck in overcoming what they have done to you, it must be traumatic

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by HardToStarboard

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by HardToStarboard

 

What you posted clearly states Christ is the Son of God, not God himself. You go on to say that in the past 40 years, that your cult has decided that they're really the same thing, only different, but still the same while being different... yeah, right..uh huh... Sounds like you're the one in the cult and not Christian, not the Mormons

It absolutely states that He is the Son of God. You're fully correct. But the portion, "God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
consubstantial with the Father;" is indicative that the Church believes Jesus is God, as did the Apostles, as has 2000 years of church history.

I understand your difficulty with Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father being different, but the same (three, but one). It's always been difficult. It always will be.

You sound like a fine person. I wish you every happiness in life and hope that whatever faith you choose to follow (even if the form is absence of faith) brings you some measure of satisfaction. It's difficult to judge the measure of a person on these forums since we're reduced to an anonymous avatar, but if you ever find yourself in New Orleans and want to talk about faith (maybe over a beer and some good food) the tab will be on me. Take care.

Nope, that part was added in much later.
I have no difficulty at all understanding your misconception of the trinity, I understand it very well, and reject it, however, you seem to have some issues with it and believe it just because it seems all "mysterious and Godly" to you just like your controllers wanted it to and you bought it hook, line and sinker.
It doesn't say they're one and the same, just that they are both Gods, one begotten from the other. Sounds like the Mormon concept is much closer to home then the concept you are trying to convey based on what you are saying.
sorry that the cult has dragged you in and is misleading you. If you ever wish to break away, we'll be glad to help you do so. You could also turn to other Good Christians like the Methodists, the Mormons, sevral other denominations out there that will help you undo the damage they have done. Good luck in overcoming what they have done to you, it must be traumatic

edit on 19-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)

As I said, I wish you every happiness. My offer stands for good food and conversation if you're ever in town (just PM me).