Why Fukushima Propaganda Has Got To Make You Laugh

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


To check Rain for Radioactivity is one of the most difficult things you can do!

I am even going so far to say that you can't do this without a Spectrograph
because there are so many Isotopes that mimicking Radioactivity!

To understand what i am talking about please visit:
www.nuc.berkeley.edu...

When there is a possibility that some one may be at risk
proof or not .. must be sick in the head to laugh at that
the news exagerating or not .. try to be respectfull

According to the top radiology experts I have listened to, these levels of radiation are far too low to cause immediate death or apparent radiation sickness.

Instead it appears to be just the right amount to still effect us while not being noticed on the surface.

Their claim was that it can take up to 40 years for a cell to fulfill the several phases before it becomes cancerous.

So technically we cannot really reasonably discuss the amounts of cancer or death rates until 2050. Possibly even 2075.

By then we will have much more evidence and can determine the true effects of such a catastrophe.

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

To check Rain for Radioactivity is one of the most difficult things you can do!

I am even going so far to say that you can't do this without a Spectrograph
because there are so many Isotopes that mimicking Radioactivity!

To understand what i am talking about please visit:
www.nuc.berkeley.edu...

I don't see anything there that supports your claim.

According to basic logic, if something "mimics" radioactivity, such as producing a reading on a sensor device, than for all intents and purposes, it is actually radioactive.

For Geiger counters essentially it is a tube of inert gas, and when a particle of radiation enters the tube, it causes the gas to become conductive thus making audible sounds.

Geiger counters are used to detect ionizing radiation, usually beta particles and gamma rays, but certain models can detect alpha particles. An inert gas-filled tube (usually helium, neon or argon with halogens added) briefly conducts electricity when a particle or photon of radiation makes the gas conductive. The tube amplifies this conduction by a cascade effect and outputs a current pulse, which is then often displayed by a needle or lamp and/or audible clicks.

wiki

Alright let me give you the basics of nuclear technology and radiation. I was a nuclear electrician for the US Navy. The Fukishima plant and many of the US run the same general design, along with most of the world (mostly due to Chernobyl).

Okay, instead of thinking that radiation itself kills people directly, think of it as a wheel of death. On that wheel are the many ways you die in this world and depending on where you live, certain ways to die will have bigger slices than others. If you live in Africa, the bigger chance of dying from ebola than in say North America. And if you live in a large city like New York, the more likely it is that you would be hit by a car and than say living in the Artic.

Radiation itself, unless is very very very large doses will not really kill you directly. It is subtle, it basically increases the size of certain slices such as heart problems, cancers, and a few other health problems.

Now someone above mentioned about the particles of radiation, most of what was stated was correct.

Alphas are the strongest but generally will not pass through the dead surface layer of skin cells.
Neutrons and Protons are next, but as magnitude of the particles goes down, the further it can penetrate.
Electrons and gammas are the smallest, yet can penetrate the furthest.

These basic radioactive particles are what do cause the damage. Now you hear about radioactive isotopes that are released. The isotopes will go through a series of reactions which eventually decay into a stable isotope. During these decays, the different isotopes will release the different particles as it turns into something stable. The more decays it does through and the strength of those decays determines how radioactive and how dangerous it is.

Just a quick note about potassium iodide. This is not a save-all pill. All the pill does is saturate the thyroid gland to the point where it does not absorb other particles which may be radioactive. It does not magically protect against inhalation or ingestion.

Someone did mention that you can't wear these particles, its true they are not stuck to you, but they can get in places that are hard to get out. If not washed thoroughly, particles can remain in the hair (head and body), inner ear, nostrils, under toe and fingernails, eyelids, mouth.

One of two particles will not kill you, but when you have a high enough concentration, they can cause serious damage. How do they particles kill you? Free radicals. Imagine all of those radioactive particles interacting with the most abundant molecules of your body, water. The H2O has interactions with the radioactive particles which break apart to form free radicals (just think of a bunch of broken H2O molecule parts flying around). These free radicals tend to damage the DNA of your cells, which in turn damaged DNA causes cells to replicate into imperfect cells or cancer cells. Some cancer cells just chill and die off like normal cells, some go into overdrive and split at a furious pace forming tumors and other growths. Voila! Cancer, These free radicals can also harm organs by damaging the cells DNA that it dies or cannot produce viable daughters so organs will end of failing eventually. If you have anymore questions just ask. I used to be an instructor for or training program and can go more in depth in need be. I am just trying to give the most basic simplest info.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Do you read that link?
Do you understand it?

reply to post by BobAthome


Yes thousands died from earthquake and resulting tsunami! Not disputing
That. Yes nuclear radiation is bad and can kill you! Not disputing that either.
All I'm asking for is proof of one death due to high exposure of nuclear radiation
In NORTH AMERICA! Oh this guy died of lung cancer and that's because of
Radiation in North America! I don't think so.
When you die of radiation exposure, that is what the toxicology report will say!

Now I am not disputing that Fukushima is bad!! It is. I am simply asking for proof
Of these sensational claims! Deny ignorance!!!

reply to post by clarkness


Hi I was an aviation ordnanceman in the navy on a couple different carriers. Worked and slept in the magazines
Right next to you guys in the reactor. We had no bunking signs in our mag cause we were so close to the reactor but we did anyway. Dumb ordnancemen lol. Yeah I get what ur sayin. If we are gonna get sick from this
It will be many years from now and we won't know the full effect!

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Do you read that link?
Do you understand it?

Which part?

The link opens up to a page with 25,000+ words on it.

If you wouldn't mind showing exactly which part...

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Do you read that link?
Do you understand it?

Which part?

The link opens up to a page with 25,000+ words on it.

If you wouldn't mind showing exactly which part...

don't mind Human, he acts like a Tepco shill more often than not, but i think it's just harmless denial.

i use an Inspector+ it reads just fine and i know of many who measure rain swipes all over the globe from many models of detectors and they work just fine also.

Originally posted by clarkness
Alright let me give you the basics of nuclear technology and radiation. I was a nuclear electrician for the US Navy. The Fukishima plant and many of the US run the same general design, along with most of the world (mostly due to Chernobyl).

Okay, instead of thinking that radiation itself kills people directly, think of it as a wheel of death. On that wheel are the many ways you die in this world and depending on where you live, certain ways to die will have bigger slices than others. If you live in Africa, the bigger chance of dying from ebola than in say North America. And if you live in a large city like New York, the more likely it is that you would be hit by a car and than say living in the Artic.

Radiation itself, unless is very very very large doses will not really kill you directly. It is subtle, it basically increases the size of certain slices such as heart problems, cancers, and a few other health problems.

Now someone above mentioned about the particles of radiation, most of what was stated was correct.

Alphas are the strongest but generally will not pass through the dead surface layer of skin cells.
Neutrons and Protons are next, but as magnitude of the particles goes down, the further it can penetrate.
Electrons and gammas are the smallest, yet can penetrate the furthest.

These basic radioactive particles are what do cause the damage. Now you hear about radioactive isotopes that are released. The isotopes will go through a series of reactions which eventually decay into a stable isotope. During these decays, the different isotopes will release the different particles as it turns into something stable. The more decays it does through and the strength of those decays determines how radioactive and how dangerous it is.

Just a quick note about potassium iodide. This is not a save-all pill. All the pill does is saturate the thyroid gland to the point where it does not absorb other particles which may be radioactive. It does not magically protect against inhalation or ingestion.

Someone did mention that you can't wear these particles, its true they are not stuck to you, but they can get in places that are hard to get out. If not washed thoroughly, particles can remain in the hair (head and body), inner ear, nostrils, under toe and fingernails, eyelids, mouth.

One of two particles will not kill you, but when you have a high enough concentration, they can cause serious damage. How do they particles kill you? Free radicals. Imagine all of those radioactive particles interacting with the most abundant molecules of your body, water. The H2O has interactions with the radioactive particles which break apart to form free radicals (just think of a bunch of broken H2O molecule parts flying around). These free radicals tend to damage the DNA of your cells, which in turn damaged DNA causes cells to replicate into imperfect cells or cancer cells. Some cancer cells just chill and die off like normal cells, some go into overdrive and split at a furious pace forming tumors and other growths. Voila! Cancer, These free radicals can also harm organs by damaging the cells DNA that it dies or cannot produce viable daughters so organs will end of failing eventually. If you have anymore questions just ask. I used to be an instructor for or training program and can go more in depth in need be. I am just trying to give the most basic simplest info.

Excellent post. The issue resides in the thinking. Folks who side on the "well, the sun gives us way more radiation..." seem to feel that there is not a cumulative effect - no tipping point. Even worse, nearly the entire population seems to deem a healthy existence as non-essential as long as two things are not "provable:" death from the issue or cancer from the issue. Folks somehow think, that because no one "stated as fact" that the thousand of nukes tested killed anyone via the radiation there was no issue with the effort. I would contend the ramifications were more subtle, crappy health, endless degradation to ones quality of life that has now become "normal" but would not have been were the radiation not been forced upon us during a time when killing people cheaply and more effectively was the goal.

There will be a tipping point, a point a which we as a species can no longer a live a life that isn't all about seeing the doctor, living with constant health issues, spending all our time mitigating this and that in the body - "but we're not dead" will be the defenders of radiation as if that is the goal.

A bullet wound is "proof" of death, slow death by cumulative-radiation-tipping-point is not provable, never will be, so it is the perfect cure to what ails those who hate the humans. A life of ailments, reduced consciousness and reduced expectations isn't even a thought or concern (sure, hard to measure).

I wonder how folks can have so little regard for their lives, and where they live, that this is ok

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


People like you are very ignorant, how you can call me a Shill,
i am just telling you what i know and nothing else.

This makes me very angry

Your Inspector Alert is able to connect to a Computer,
please do it and look which Isotopes are responsible for your Reading!

When you do a Swipe Test calculate the Size of the Surface,
don't forget this!

You should maybe speak with People who know what they are talking about
to correct your View and your Measurement-Method!

www.nuc.berkeley.edu...

reply to post by lacrimosa


What some of you may NOT know is that Fukushima Daichi was NOT the only plant out there, there are around 13 reactors in the area, some VERY large and scary ones, and ALL of them were affected by the earthquake and resulting tsunami. Amazing how some people seem to in-focus so much on something they seem to miss the LARGER picture...see part of that here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you are only relying on numbers for the Fukushima Daichi plant, I'd consider adding up ALL the damage related and ask yourself why these people can't rebuild their homes now....where are they ALL supposed to go. The entire region there is wasted. And this doesn't even start to discuss all the crap that is pouring into the ocean and air currents from this. I guess focusing on one spot instead of looking at the WHOLE picture is less scary. That type of focus however is also called micromanagement and is known to drive anyone using it to destruction. As it has for Tepco and who ever allowed all those plants to be build over major faults. Oh...yes, this doesn't even begin to touch on the liquefaction of parts of Tokyo bay, which I might add is near Mt. Fuji....smokin' and a very touchy area tectonic wise. So, yea... Japan is truly in a world of chaos rt now. What if it was YOUR northern state or province or someplace near you?

reply to post by Liberal1984


I alluded to exactly this in another thread a while back.

This is not your "average every day disaster opportunity"... there are reports of this event causing the END OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION

Really?

If the radiation was so terribly out of control and leaking all over the place.. how are there workers able to survive right at the site! No fancy white suit is going to save you, when (of course) dolphins are dying of radiation poisoning thousands of miles away in Alaska...

reply to post by Human0815

We are a open Society and there is no one who can stop us to spread such Information!

You live in Tokyo, not in Fukushima or anywhere near the 30km zone. You are also not an insider so you only know what the rest of us do. What Tepco, the Government and the media are leading you to believe. Just because you believe you are living in an open society, doesn't mean that things are not hidden from you and the rest of your people in your Country. TEPCO and the Government have been incredibly secretive and closed about this situation from the get go and are only releasing certain amounts of information to keep people happy. How do you know for sure that this information is the full truth? You don't.

I do not need "Insider-Information" because i can't understand them, i am an Amateur like 99.7% here!

Indeed you are. But as self confessed amatuer, you do really like to state a lot that everything is fine and dandy because TEPCO says so, when infact it is not.

It is not important what the MSM is reporting, i trust the Tepco Data, i even trust them so much that i do not go there to stop them, i am like you and other People!

You told me in a previous post that you don't believe everything that TEPCO says, so which is it. You do or you don't?

Tepco is releasing a lot of Information but many People do not watch in the right Place. Enenews never show the Success because they need "Doom", the same i am saying about Fukushima Dairy, etc. it is their Agenda and they earn Money by this!

Please enlighten me and the rest of us, where all the correct and right information from TEPCO is. And why you believe it is more truthful and trustworthy over all the other stuff they have released.

I also trust the Readings of my own Geiger Counter, i trust our Group who even owned more Counter and Spectrographs, when there are a amount of 100 Geiger Counter and all say the same i trust, yes i do!

You go around Tokyo and take readings, which are often low. I believe Tokyo is quite a ways away from Fukushima and the 30km zone? Have you been anywhere near the 30km zone or further inwards to take readings? Have you been north of Fukushima, or west, or east out to sea? I doubt it. Just because your readings in Tokyo are low, doesn't mean that they are around Fukushima and inside 30km zone.

And because your readings in Tokyo are low, doesn't mean the very people near fukushima and the 30km are not going to suffer terribly later on because of this disaster.

When you are talking about the Firemen they are fine. This was a Tokyo Crew!

You know the Fukushima 50 are not just the 50 guys there at the start, they are now using that buzz word for pretty much all the frontline clean up crew that have been there from the start and after.

Tokyo has a big population. Are you telling me you know all of these frontline firemen famous for being the first Fukushima 50, and know for a fact that they have not suffered from radiation sickness or are not having any problems at all? not even just a little bit? Where did you recieve the information that they are all fine? Do you have their medical records or something?

Also, i heard that TEPCO started hiring down and outs to help with the clean up and cooling of the reactors, Men that people will not miss. Can you give me any information on these people and tell me whether this is a falsehood or truth?

They can drop like Fly but not because of Radiation, when you see the accumulated Dosage and understand a bit about Radiation you can exclude this!

There are less than 5 People who receive a Dosage above 250 Millisieverts which is the max. allowed Dosage for Worker in a Emergency Situation, the average is 18 Millisieverts for nearly 28.000 People who worked in Fukudaiichi until now!

How do you know i know nothing of radiation?

Also, where did you get this information from? TEPCO?

Wasn't the amount of background radiation raised, that people are supposed to be safe from if exposed? So who's to say they didin't raise the amount of radiation emegency services whould be exposed to in this kind if situation.

The simple fact is, TEPCO are not to be trusted because they have been lying to the people of Japan and the world from the start of this disaster. Stop putting all your trust and faith in them, you will only end up getting burnt by their secrecy and lies.



You also stated this in your first post in this thread;

Originally posted by Human0815
Until now we had a lot of LUCK and we need to be very thankful for that

You think this situation has been lucky so far? You think the people of Fukushima are lucky? Enquiring minds want to know.

reply to post by Liberal1984

The answer to your question from a "official report" is 50. Actual is probably closer to around 500 which is the number of people that remained around to begin "clean up".

www.nytimes.com...

You are living in denial because you cannot handle the truth.

True statistics are not being released by TEPCO.

Workers must sign two agreements, one that TEPCO will not be held liable for their deaths and two that they, under no condition, will talk with any "outsiders" or "journalists" about Fukushima.

Robots can only operate for approximately three hours before their circuits melt.

Many of the videos confirming this have been removed from You Tube and Google.

We're never given the full story.

The video below is from 60 minutes and that is a mainstream source so you know that this is candy coated, X's this by 1,000 probably for the real implications.



I am the second generation of 2 zaps from a X-ray machine (1918 - mother had tonsillitis).

Read my other replies.

Radiation affects your DNA on a chromosome level forever.

I urge you to watch this video.

Japan is gone......................all those people are walking deadmen.

Possibly, life as we know it will survive but mutate.

When going for a breast biopsy I chanced to meet the head radiologist from one of the ten best hospitals in America. I asked him, his opinion about Fukushima. he asked me, "Are you a journalist?" I said, no and I would never tell anyone his name - he said, "Japan is gone, lost". I asked about the workers because I was concerned and he said, "All gone, all dead men, anyone remaining anywhere near there is simply bidding their time. Their quality of life will be severely limited."

He looked at me in the eyes and I could see a sadness, a holding back because he didn't want to frighten me, but went on, "The entire planet will be affected, we are already getting the radiation from Fukushima and most people don't have any idea the severity of this event."

I also have a e-mail buddy that is a retired nuclear physicist, he is around 70. I asked him about Fukushima and he wrote back, "You don't want to know, just live each day to the fullest, enjoy and be grateful for each day, limit your exposure outside and don't buy or eat anything from the Northwest Coast of America or Hawaii. But even the Midwest food chain will eventually become unstable. You really don't want to hear a possible ELE event."

One has to wonder if this indeed was simply a "natural event, accident" or something maybe more.

Again, go back to some of my previous replies on Fukushima Forums.

I was born with a cleft palate, congenital cataracts (as were two of my three sons), a severe hearing loss (all nerve endings that pick up consonants are scarred and dead).

My mother received just two zaps of radiation in 1918, that is how they treated tonsillitis around 1918 and it affected her (she died at 52 of thyroid and or lung cancer), my sister dead at 61 of colon cancer, my brother was born brain damaged and my three sons are: #1 ADHD #2 Autistic #3 Autistic (all functioning, not severe but only son number 1 can work, and is "productive".

Grand daughter, like her father, ADHD with bad vision and we don't know on a cellular level, the total damage, we can't afford a DNA panel.

OP: You are probably young. I respectfully request you to keep a open mind and do some serious research.

Fukushima I was told was like Chenobyl X's 400.

Do the math.

I was indirectly told this in and of itself was a ELE event. Some human life may continue, we are already seeing massive sea life and birds dying.



Description of video above, very interesting video.

Uploaded by ictvvictoria on Feb 16, 2012

Local engineer Werner Simbeck joins us again to talk about what may be the single greatest environmental disaster people have ever caused - the multiple meltdowns at the nuclear power plants in Fukushima Japan. We discuss the complete lack of media coverage, and why the HarperGovernment is also doing nothing to help us. We talk about the price we are all going to pay for this disaster, and how the industry and their politicians and media simply do not care because of the big money that is involved.

The final answer to your question is officially 50 - the real number, we will never know, as Japanese authorities and TEPCO are making sure the truth is not leaked out. If they were as careful with our nuclear plants as they are with the news we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Below is the official number but Japan is hiding numbers. en.wikipedia.org...

For example, babies born malformed are killed and not put on birth or death records, to protect TEPCO. Want proof to that last statement, I will try to find the video.

Again, I've been privileged to be able to talk with two men who I believe know what they are talking about and both said, Fukushima was in a sense, a Endgame card for humanity.

We're not even going to discuss BP Oil Gusher that is still going on and the oil "leak" that has been going on in Africa for 30+ years.

It's all accumulative, the devastation we are reeking upon our planet.

Our O2 levels have gone down drastically with the logging of hundreds of millions of trees that turned our CO2 into O2.

It's all accumulative and if humanity does not change the way we are currently doing business we may very well go the way of the dinosaur.

My e-mail buddy, the retired nuclear physicist said, "and that might not be such a bad thing for our planet after all".

The second video is only part of three, it's longer than most people's attention span but it's worth listening to.

It involves the politics, it's all about the money.

Profit over people is the way corporations now work. The corporations do not care if you have a malformed child, you only live to 50 or your daughter is sterile.................they don't care.

If you refuse to understand this then you are being fooled.

With the last video, go to 23:39 it talks about how we here in America have figured out a way of getting rid of our nuclear waste, it's called dirty bombing...............don't listen to this if you scare easily.

We're screwing ourselves over.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

People like you are very ignorant, how you can call me a Shill,
i am just telling you what i know and nothing else.

This makes me very angry

Your Inspector Alert is able to connect to a Computer,
please do it and look which Isotopes are responsible for your Reading!

When you do a Swipe Test calculate the Size of the Surface,
don't forget this!

You should maybe speak with People who know what they are talking about
to correct your View and your Measurement-Method!

www.nuc.berkeley.edu...

edit on 18-5-2012 by Human0815 because: (no reason given)

calm down amigo, i didn't say you were a shill, just that you seem like one sometimes. my measurement method is fine and it shouldn't really be a mystery while 1-6 reactors in Japan are spewing radiation out 24/7 as to why people are measuring fallout? you really find it difficult to believe?

it's not a myth, it's not a conspiracy theory nor a soap opera, it's real sir.

Out of interest, how many thousands of Americans died as a result of the nuclear 'accidents' in Hiroshima and Nagaski in 1945?

I'm assuming hundreds of thousands more died as a result of the nuclear 'accidents' that took place in the USA itself in the 40s, 50s and 60s?

Meanwhile, this is obviously disinfo because it doesn't tell us we're all gonna die!!!! (but it's worth a read if you still have an open mind)

Radiation poses low risk to DNA

But the oil/coal mafia wouldn't want you to know that ...... (if I don't post again you'l know why!)

reply to post by clarkness


Dude thanks for expanding and clarifying what I posted
I tried to be as accurate as I could from memory ( was nuts deep in mud cleaning my fire stick at the time so couldn't refer to anything )
I'm no NBC guru but show an interest and make sure I keep ontop of my training in this area - same as any in our line of work 9 times outta 10 you only get one chance to get it right

If however I could pick your brain regarding particles
Gamma - largest ? Heaviest ? So travels least distance ? Any input on how weather patterns could carry these and possible distance
Beta - the middle one lol
Alpha - smallest, lightest - thus has capacity to travel furthest - again any input on possible dispersal

Many thanks

Thanks everyone for the sane response, so far, so good!

NrocrusaderWhat you need to consider is the types of radiation and the protective measures used
Radiation is released in particles and rays

I already have. What’s really worth considering is those working at Fukushima are being exposed to more waves than anyone else, because frankly it doesn’t matter what protective their given since Gamma cannot be stopped without several centimetres of lead, or 1-2 meters of concrete. Protective clothing only protects against the particles, and yet those working at Fukushima haven’t even become bold yet!!! So when you e.g. hear a plane load of people loosing their hair at 20,000 plus feet...
www.naturalnews.com... you really have to scratch you’re head!
Sure there (could) be a few mass graves of mutated Japanese zombie workers, but I doubt it. Japan isn’t anything like as bad, as the Soviet Union.

Juanxlink So bottom line, you are telling us to be calm and safe, fukushima is a non issue, and OBL died last year...

No! Bottom line is that whilst you’re being deceived by both sides, the side guilty of telling the most lies (as in things that were never ever true –not least because they don’t even pass scrutiny) is the nuclear hysteria side, most radioactive on this sub-forum. Speaking of which…

Human0815 This is the fresh, official Data from today, the 18th of May.
It looks good.

But there is a Danger for the next 2 Years at least that the Situation goes back to "Out of Control"!

Er… Would you mind being more specific about how? And why the next two years in particular? The only danger is if those fuel rods fall over, but in all probability this will take another one in a thousand years earthquake as…
1. The worst aftershocks are now almost certainly over –so far all but one of the pools has survived just fine.
2. Strengthening work is underway
3. Plans have now been made. If push comes to shove, they will have to put them in the sea. Before that, they have fire trucks to douse them in water.

skirtzspiracyYou actually think Tepco and Japan are going to tell us how many people have died already because of Radiation Poisoning?

I honestly don’t think they will be 100% frank about the health damage suffered by Japan’s total population. For some reason the Japanese government has a cultural tendency to treat its people like pre-school children –which has been completely counterproductive as it’s made the paranoia even more unbalanced than it might otherwise be. But regarding Fukushima workers they have little choice, they are not an oppressive regime, international observers are there, and this story still sells newspapers.

StarchildThe toll from this accident (even if it is no worse than Chernobyl) could be thousands or hundreds of thousands.

Chernobyl killed 68 officially www.bbc.co.uk... and shortened no more than 28,000 lives. Because of the wind blowing out to sea, and because the situation has been dealt far better than Chernobyl it will be a fraction (in Russia they didn’t even let the public know for the first 24 hours –the most dangerous of all hours).

JiggyPotamusPeople will read this and think that everything is just fine over there because of this post, because that is how many people think. It's just the way it is.

Unfortunately this is what happens every time people lie or be deceptive. It unfairly backfired against the Japanese government, and in the end, when the truth catches up with them, it will cause a similar loss of credibility to the anti-nuclear lot. Difference being they have had much to start with. Fair’s square as the saying going. But I’ve had no part in it, I’ve been a member of this site for years, have a political agenda of course, but have never lied or been delibretely deceptive. Be it an exaggeration, deception, or clear lies; lies always eat the beholder from the inside out.