Originally posted by randyvs
Take the man who logically would sacrifice himself for the many. A man who would jump on the hand grenade to save his friends ?
Is it really a logical thing to do seeing that he upon his death will no longer have his friends ? Yet out of love there are many that would do something so illogical. So if love is not logical ? Does that mean when we say," God is love"
we are saying God is not logical ? If God is not logical ? What does that say for logic ?
What about the many that would sacrifice themselves for the good of one ?
Is love logical ? If not does that make God illogical? Should human beings toss logic altogether ?

Jesus said: There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. -John 15:13

John (a diciple of Jesus', the same guy who said, "God is love") said: This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1 John 3:16

From these two verses that I've shown thus far, we can believe that the use of the words 'friends' and 'brothers' can be used interchangeably.
We can also believe that Jesus laid down his life for his friends, those whom he considers His brothers. So how does Jesus define friends and brothers?

You are my friends if you do what I command. -John 15:14

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. -John 15:15

For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. -Matthew 12:50

From these three verses we can understand that those who Jesus laid down his life are those who do what Jesus commands. "OUR Father who art in heaven, blessed is your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"...Jesus honored His Father, He did what His Father wanted Him to do.
Jesus could not have known what His Father wanted Him to do unless His Father made known to him everything He learned from His Father. We can not know what God wants of us unless we take heed to Jesus' teachings, because He has made known to us everything He has learned from His Father.
Jesus never claimed to be the sole heir. Jesus never kept any knowledge for Himself but told His disciples everything He Himself knew. I hope that each of us knows that if we love someone, we do not lie to them, nor would we keep them in ignorance of the truth. That is the reason that He was born, to learn, to put what He learned into practice, and to teach that which He learned so that others may put what they learn into practice.

Pilate said, "So you are a king?" Jesus responded, "You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true." -John 18:37

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. -John 16:7

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. -John 14:26

Jesus was born into the world, learned, did, taught and departed according to God's will, that we may learn to live and depart from this earth according to God's will. Jesus does not leave us ignorant of what God's will is, the purpose of the Holy Spirit is sent to remind us of everything Jesus has spoken, and Jesus spoke everything he was taught and left nothing to the imagination.
Now, that leads us to the question, If many people will not be able to enter heaven, does that mean that God does not love them, that God won't teach them? Matthew 13:9 He who has ears, let him hear."

Jesus made it clear that there are people who are granted to know and people who are not.
Matthew 13:11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Now why do you suppose this is? We look to the previous verse to see:
Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
Matthew 7:7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Luke 8:18 Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."

I will then ask you this, you logical minds, would you trust someone if they told you they loved you if you don't even know them?
And he will reply, 'I tell you, I don't know you or where you come from. Depart from me, all you who do evil.' -Luke 13:27

I believe that God is the most logical being in existence. It takes two to tango.

I'll leave logic to the robots, computers and sociopaths...

I love the chaos of emotion... You will not find beauty in cold logic.

Logic? one's and zero's, soulless and cold absolutes that completely miss the intricacy of what lies between them.

Peace


Oh... btw... great thread as always Randyvs

Originally posted by Muckster
I'll leave logic to the robots, computers and sociopaths...

I love the chaos of emotion... You will not find beauty in cold logic.

Logic? one's and zero's, soulless and cold absolutes that completely miss the intricacy of what lies between them.

Peace

Interesting that you say that you walk by faith and not by sight.
In order to have faith you must have sight no?

Are these sayings familiar to you?
If the blind lead the blind both fall into a ditch.
Without vision the people perish.
Man looks at the outward appearance but the Lord looks at the heart.
If they are not familiar to you then they should be, they are from the bible.

Have you any knowledge of psychology?
Is not your logic just as much a part of you as your emotions?
Do you not know that the brain is comparable to a computer?
If there's anything anyone might want to ask, please do so and I will do my best to answer.

Love is logical and Intuitive and many things to many people
The example cited of one who would sacrifice his/her life for the benefit of Humanity as a whole is noble.
Love is what we make of it
Yet how would the sacrifice of one's life benefit others - There are many examples of those who stood and spoke out for truth - Someone sure needs to.
Love is what you understand it to be and the word love is not necessary to describe itself

Remember Spock…probably the most logical guy in TV history…





Now I guess Spock, would argue that he did what he did, to save the ship and his friends, because it was logical, and that the “needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” etc. But what he did, can also be seen from another perspective, in that he did it, out of love for his friends.


Kind of reminds me of these verses….

John 15:13

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

John 10:11

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:17

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again.

- JC

Logic is the application of reason.

Why isn't love logical?

I mean, when I look at a test, I see items in terms of more or less correct. The most correct is deemed to be a "logical" choice because the most frames of reference converge.

When we see the root of love, and what it's meant for in the context of our species progression, it's most logical. Nature has given way to our application of counterbalances in equilibrium with each other.

I think love only seems irrational, or illogical if we aren't paying close enough attention.

Now, individual acts of love, I can't answer so generally. Crazy things happening in the name of love!

Originally posted by Muckster

I only have the following to ask you... Are you deliberately trying to sound condescending? Because that how you come across, with the many simple questions.

Also, with a subject such as this there is no real right and wrong... all people can say is what’s in their heart at the moment of asking... unless, of course, they rely totally on logic and will then give you the exact same answer every time. Which kind of reinforces my initial post.

Peace

I'm sorry if you feel that I've asked you simple questions, my problem is that I happen not to like when people claim to be following God and yet have no problem lying about the little things, Jesus said that he who is faithful with little is faithful with much and that he who isn't faithful with the little he has, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him.
I'm sorry, but I firmly disagree, there is a "real right and wrong", it's when people start to think that they've learned everything they need to know that they stop searching for the truth when the little "innocent misunderstandings" happen. The OP said God, four times, this subject very much includes God. People will either lie about him or about themselves to save face, but unless YOU see that this is about God and you personally, your integrity could be lacking.

Love is giving someone the power
to destroy you,
but trusting them
not to..

It is only love that gives a vision of beauty. It makes facts.. Not only facts but mysteries. In the hands of love everything becomes a mystery, in the hands of logic everything becomes a naked fact; and if the whole world is full of facts and there is no beauty, man cannot live significantly. Life becomes meaningless. Life has meaning only if the vision of beauty remains in your heart.

God can't be perfect and be illogical cause being illogical is a mistake, and God being perfect wouldn't make mistakes...
peace,sugarcookie1

Originally posted by sugarcookie1
Love is giving someone the power
to destroy you,
but trusting them
not to..

It is only love that gives a vision of beauty. It makes facts.. Not only facts but mysteries. In the hands of love everything becomes a mystery, in the hands of logic everything becomes a naked fact; and if the whole world is full of facts and there is no beauty, man cannot live significantly. Life becomes meaningless. Life has meaning only if the vision of beauty remains in your heart.

God can't be perfect and be illogical cause being illogical is a mistake, and God being perfect wouldn't make mistakes...
peace,sugarcookie1

I think I just fell in love with sugar cookie.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I have two answers

First, love is a biological event, a mix of hormones. Pure and simple. It is an emotion designed to help protect and continue our species.

Second, love is an emotion. Emotions and logic are, IMO, opposites. What I might choose to do after a deliberate calculation is logical. How I act in a moment of crisis is emotional.

if both are mere chemical reactions in the brain that have physiological affects, then what is the significance to begin with? What objective point of reference do you base your logic-illogic on?