I refused to disclose my annual income to PAYPAL and they froze my funds !

Originally posted by dawnprince
You have my full sympathy my friend.
I have had many bad experiences with PAYPAL in the past .
They seem to be above the law or any trading standards.
Don't give up the fight.

Edited for clarifiction....... I'm in the UK

edit on 16-5-2012 by dawnprince because: (no reason given)

Same, been using PayPal off and on since they started dominating the internet. Fill endless forms asking for silly stuff. Final straw was a couple of weeks ago. Sold some camera gear, one lot to the US and another to somewhere in Europe. Both parties paid with PayPal and within a week of them receiving their items both had start proceeding to get their money back. I sent proof of posting etc yet at the end of however long the refund process takes PayPal gave them full refunds!!! Now my account is below 0 on balance by quite an amount and they are phoning me threatening to send collection agencies around for the money. Good luck with that I say.

PayPal are a law unto themselves, they are or at least think they are above any laws. I will never use them ever again and would urge anyone that used PayPal to review their decision sharpish. Those that say they have never had any problems with PayPal are sitting ducks in my mind, only a matter of time. As far as the outstanding balance is concern - they can kiss my seating area because I am not giving it to them.

I used to work at a bank so I will give out some info. ^^ Might be a little irrelevant, but it is good info.

When a customer deposited more than 3000 dollars on a given day, we were required by law to give out a CTR notice. (Currency Transaction Report) Basically, the customer was given a notice that the deposit he made today would immediately be sent to the IRS. Some of the questions the CTR ask are: Where is this coming from, Who is making the deposit. What is your occupation. What will you need this money for. (This is for personal and business accounts) Anything under 2999.00 in a given day, would not be reported to the IRS. So no forms, no nothing.

(Many people don't know about CTR's because we aren't supposed to disclose them to people, but I don't work there anymore, and the contracts didn't say anything about not disclosing them after we stopped working)

As far as business accounts went, the same thing. But you couldn't really claim a business unless you had a business account with a license from the court.

I think this is where the confusion with Paypal comes in.

You made an account, you didn't verify it, you got a payment for 300 dollars. You tried to send the money to your bank account, and this is where the crap storm happened.

Paypal pretty much saw that money, and said. "Oh this person is conducting business on a new account, we need all his info."

Now you ask, How can Paypal find out that I made a business transaction, and not a personal transaction? When the person was sending you the money, they most likely put in the description that they were sending you tangible goods etc etc that they bought from you. Paypal probably flagged that as a business transaction.

Hope this made some sense. :S

My company has a policy to never allow customers to pay for our services or products via PayPal. PayPal is terrible! During the last year, we had a few customers who paid us via PayPal for service and products and pulled their money back right after they received the items. PayPal told us there is no recourse for the seller, only the buyer. That is when we pulled the plug and will not do business with PayPal ever again!

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by FlyersFan
PayPal is like using a credit card.
Credit Card companies have a right to ask what your income is.
They are extending credit and can get burned if you can't pay.

Exactly WHAT credit are they extending ?
The $302 was entirely MY money that had been DEPOSITED into their system.
At NO point was I using PayPal's money.

I am not defending PayPal, but they are in effect taking the money that somebody has promised to give them and transfering it to you, before they actually have it from the other party.

If the other party did not actually pay them or later reversed the transaction, they would be out the money.

Virtually every credit card processing company also reserves the right to freeze the bank accounts of merchants they serve for up to 180 days .

Additionally, every credit card processing company and bank asks merchants for their annual sales and how much of it they anticipate coming from credit card sales, and will usually limit the amount that new merchants can process or decline to open the account if the anticipated sales are to high.

Finally, if an unauthorized party were to get somebody's paypal login and use it illegally to make purchases, paypal wants to insure that they have some sort of recourse.

It's unfortunate, but there are criminals out therre and paypal is just trying to cover themselves.

The Op is correct about his judgment of PayPal & EBay however the depth of this Racket is so dark and mucky it rivals any abyss.

If we take a step back and consider the Op and his evidence one would draw the conclusion that Paypal is doing nothing more than balances and checks inorder to prevent exposure to fraud perfectly reasonable we might think, this is so far from the truth it makes perfect sense to the common public this is just the way they want it we find ourselfs explaning the reason all the while forgeting the true structure behind this buisness model.

I have had many talks with friends and family about this CARTEL we call EBAY & PAYPAL who have had very similar experiances to those of Op, some were sucesful in their case but others were not and some even went as far to say they never had a issue. WHY? is this what did they do to draw the attention of the BEAST, it seems that the reason for this SHOCK & AWE was pure and simple TAX and extortion of funds.

Now to the speculation

They use these funds for the purpose of investment in goods they know sell thus taking out public sellers and replacing them with their very own stores, they know what sells were and profit margins they compile the data and exploite the free market. This method of taking funds is also very effective in the avoidence of TAX on the part of PayPal & EBay they dont have to report on these cases until they are resolved this buys the company time and lots of it to play the market known as EBay like a casino they own the floor they control the flow of cash and allow others to feel like winners even after shafting them for % points on the sale they take % of the total sale cost never factoring in the original purchase price this alone is extortion in my opinion.

I dont want to ramble on and on as im sure the majority will understand my point. This is just the tip of the iceberg im pretty sure the rabbit hole goes way deeper.

reply to post by Manhater


Paypal is terrible. I once sold a performance ECU from my old car on Ebay. I sent it as soon as I got paid. The buyer complained that I did not send it fast enough, since he needed it for a race or something. For some reason, Paypal decides he deserves a refund, and tells him to send it back to me. How do they know he will send it back? Well, he sent back a completely different ECU, I took a picture of the box and the serial number, but Paypal refused to give me his money back. It is so easy to get screwed by them, and no one will help you when you do.

so from reading the PayPal letter they are basically accusing of you of being a scammer.

you had previous PayPal accounts that you used to scam people, and then did a legitimate trade, opened a new account and thought you could get away with it? lol

talk about pwned.

no sympathy from me here, you get what you deserve.

it clearly states you have multiple accounts yet you state this was your first one?

also judging from your post you went fair off at the staff each time you called, maybe learn that yelling at people over the phone gets you nowhere. be stern, but civilized in your tone and you will get alot further then just yelling at people.

im amazed so many people just skipped straight over the paypal letter and havn't commented on it.

yes paypal can be a PITA, but in this case it seems pretty clear cut and the OP is clearly lying since he says he has no other accounts and this was his first, yet paypal clearly have evidence otherwise or they wouldn't have shut this account down.

the whole thing just wreaks of BS. why would they say you have previous accounts if you dont? in the second letter they sent you it implicates you have outstanding refund requests on those as well so in essence you have scammed people before and now been caught out in an honest transaction, karma much?

reply to post by tauristercus


lie

reply to post by tauristercus

your right, it was your little note.
You gave false information and then admitted it in your side note. Lol. Think that's against the law when applying for things like that. You snitched on yourself.

They always ask you how much money you make in many internret services ....it's not like they are asking for your credit card info.

FYI

Ebay and Paypal are run by the same people...

John Donahoe became President and CEO of eBay Inc. on March 31, 2008, succeeding Meg Whitman, who stepped down from the role after 10 years, and who continues to serve on the company’s Board of Directors. As President and CEO, Donahoe has global responsibility for growing each of the company’s business units, which include eBay Marketplaces, PayPal and Skype. Donahoe came to eBay in February 2005 as President of eBay Marketplaces, responsible for all elements of eBay’s global ecommerce businesses.

source

So they not only get your money for listing the product, but they also get a % of the sale through ebay and charge a fee on paypal to get your money...

I have used pp almost since its inception and never had issues. And I have added cards, deleted cards, changed bank accounts, and at one time had no bank account listed(I couldnt withdraw but could still pay with the money in my pp account). I even sold a car once on ebay using pp(a $4230 transaction). I have never been asked my income or asked to send copies of my drivers license or proof of residence. Recently I do however use a completely seperate bank account to fund and withdraw, and its a prepaid cc. PP sees the card as a bank account, so I can withdraw, and to fund my prepaid cc I use the greendot money cards.

Im thinking we arent getting the full story. The letter mentioned multiple accounts? Hmmm.

However, its good to remember the pp is NOT a bank, and they are not bound by banking laws.

Sorry for your bad experience. I have been using PayPal since it began pretty much. I've never had a bad experience. But I've never tried to accept payment from someone through it. I only consume, don't process or sell anything.

I still sometimes use paypal when buying or selling items on ebay, but I have had problems.

I tried buying an exhaust system from a guy. I sent payment by paypal it was about £100. Then I waited for the item to arrive. It never did. I contacted paypal and I got maybe half the money back. The reason they said i didn't get it all was that the sellesr account only had £50 in it and that was all they could lay their hands on.

That was it, I never did get anymore money or the goods or hear anymore from the seller.

So although paypal say the buyer has protection in fact they don't. I can't see where paypal is taking any risk.

If I could find another way to do transactions I would drop paypal.

Anytime I can bypass ebay or paypal fees I do it, such as contacting sellers who are nearby and going round and deal in cash. If I do buy or sell on ebay I try to get the transaction cancelled which saves all seller fees.

Why not simply lie, like a normal person?

Seriously, I suspect this was only due to it being overseas in origin (relative to the US).
Still, sucky situation. Hope it eventually works out for you.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
PayPal is like using a credit card.
Credit Card companies have a right to ask what your income is.
They are extending credit and can get burned if you can't pay.
Although I hate giving up our income information, it can be necessary to receive/use credit.

BS Its not a credit card, its money you have already earned from selling something to someone.
I also have been burned by PAYPAL and this was after having them for yrs, selling numerous items then they freeze up my acct, I can't ship items due so not able to get to my funds for shipping, Paypal sends letters to my customers they freak out, give bad reviews etc or cancel and want refunds of money that is froze up by PAYPAL. Send in all paperwork also and this is the US and NEVER any good explanation as to all the problems as I had done nothing different than any other time. We had used Ebay Paypal since 2003 but by 2008 were done with them, they had stolen hundreds of dollars from us and we simply could not afford to lose that amt of money or take a chance of losing it. I have tons of friends also that do not use them any longer as their accts were closed, their moneys frozen,. They have become a scam and can steal your money at any time they feel. I'm glad for craigslist. I mean look at ebay back in the day they had hundreds or thousands of listings for items, now its like a dead mall.

OH and wanted to add, they always wait until I have several hundred dollars at least in transactions before freezing my account. If I had a 2 dollar transaction, it would go through fine, but if I had several that added up to any money that is when they would start problems. I Hate paypal they suck..and because of them I dont use ebay either since they are married. They are both out to rob and steal from you.

Just my 2 cents worth...I would think with the process you are using and the materials (chemicals) you're using may have led to a red flag being placed on you...in your ebay listing you even state that you use a process to melt down coins, your melting of gold and silver in this unstable global economic climate in regard to bullion suggests to me that you are being monitored. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. I wouldn't be surprised your being monitored here as well, considering you do have a nice following on your gold and silver melting down into bullion threads.

This is your ebay listing isn't it?

www.ebay.com.au...

PayPal is generally considered miserable and costly to deal with, however, anti-mondey laundering (AML) processes are required by many financial institutions. How invasive those processes are depends largely on how the company chooses to exercise compliance. In my previous job at Experian, we had an AML software offering. It made for far greater accuracy than the manual reviews many banks and credit unions used, while reducing the time and costs of doing so. The thing was, like many such analytical systems, it was highly customizable, as the laws generally aren't very specific as to the *how*. Some would ask for income level, some wouldn't.
I'm not familiar with AUS rules, but assumingly they're similar to U.S.
So do they *have* to ask income? Technically probably not, but their particular situation, and security / regulatory compliance departments decided to use income level as part of their AML compliance. PayPal and EBay have to be highly vigilant as they are easy targets to be used for money laundering by their very nature. Income level is one of the most powerful analytical tools for this.
Whether for AML, or fraud prevention, my customers concerns were alway on catching as many "bads" as possible, without pushing away too many "good" customers. You are simply part of what they consider an acceptable percentage of lost customers which they deem acceptable as a cost of compliance (as am I, but that has more to do with their and ebays cost structure)

PayPal is generally considered miserable and costly to deal with, however, anti-mondey laundering (AML) processes are required by many financial institutions. How invasive those processes are depends largely on how the company chooses to exercise compliance. In my previous job at Experian, we had an AML software offering. It made for far greater accuracy than the manual reviews many banks and credit unions used, while reducing the time and costs of doing so. The thing was, like many such analytical systems, it was highly customizable, as the laws generally aren't very specific as to the *how*. Some would ask for income level, some wouldn't.
I'm not familiar with AUS rules, but assumingly they're similar to U.S.
So do they *have* to ask income? Technically probably not, but their particular situation, and security / regulatory compliance departments decided to use income level as part of their AML compliance. PayPal and EBay have to be highly vigilant as they are easy targets to be used for money laundering by their very nature. Income level is one of the most powerful analytical tools for this.
Whether for AML, or fraud prevention, my customers concerns were alway on catching as many "bads" as possible, without pushing away too many "good" customers. You are simply part of what they consider an acceptable percentage of lost customers which they deem acceptable as a cost of compliance (as am I, but that has more to do with their and ebays cost structure)

I use and like paypal...but they can be frustrating.

Family member experience:

Ebay a $4000 pair of Binoculars for $2000
Guy in china wins the buy.
We ship to him... USPS says China got it and that China told them that he got it.

A week later, he says he never got them!

Paypal says unless we give him his money back, they will TAKE his money back.
We ask what Paypal needs to prove WE were innocent...
"Proof from the Government." they said
So the US Postal Service comes in and says "Yes, they did send it. Yes China said we got it."
Paypal goes, WE NEED WRITTEN PROOF WITHIN 30 DAYS...FROM CHINA'S GOVERNMENTAL POST SERVICE>

Yes. Written proof from a Chinese government agency. Within 30 days.

We withdrew all our money and closed our bank account...