I refused to disclose my annual income to PAYPAL and they froze my funds !

Originally posted by ecoparity
Here's some tips to avoid losing your money to Paypal / Ebay:

Sellers of items:

1. Make your shipping policy x number of days after the payment clears your bank, not upon receipt in paypal.
This way you have the money in your bank and it will discourage stolen account frauds from buying your item. This is the easiest way to prevent being ripped off by someone using a stolen account but hardly anyone does it.

2. It's a good idea to set up a separate bank account to transfer Paypal funds into, once they clear transfer them out of the account into another - this will prevent paypal from reversing the transfer (which they can do at any time).

3. If you have the ability, set up a page to host your item photos or put up a shipping info form buyers have to fill out where you can track their IPs. Using whois you can see where they are, etc. If you see a hosting company, VPN or proxy service you're probably dealing with a fraud and should cancel the sale to be safe.

4. Don't ship to high risk countries, ever no matter what, period. (Hi, I'm a Dr in NYC and I want to buy your laptop and ship it to my son in Nigeria....)

Buyers:

1. Don't just look at the feedback %. You can have 1 sale and 100% positive feedback. You want to see a long standing account with lots of good feedback, not a brand new account with 1 sale. Better to lose that great deal than get nothing or a box of rocks.

2. Set up your own shipping account, then ask the seller to use it for shipping and have them use a form you host to set up the shipping (don't give them your UPS / Fed Ex account number). Again, you can track and check IPs to see if the seller is where they say they are or if they are using a hosting server, proxy or vpn.

3. If you have suspicions about a seller, ask them to call you on the phone. Look up some info about the city they live in and ask a few questions. If the old lady in San Diego has a Russian or African accent, you might want to find another item (not that a stolen or fraud account user would get on the phone with you but anyway...)

I realize it takes some tech ability to do some of these things but if you do a lot of online commerce you should probably learn or pay someone who can do it for you.

edit on 16-5-2012 by ecoparity because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2012 by ecoparity because: (no reason given)

Thanks, Ecoparity, for sharing your tips. It might save someone a lot of grief.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
...
Obviously the OP's national laws raised heightened scrutiny over the transaction which seem to have conspired with the OP's glib response to the income question to cause this problem.

While this is clearly another prime example of idiotic bureaucracy and poorly thought out financial regulation, I believe the OP shares some culpability.

My two cents...

It seems the OP is an inexperienced Seller, certainly with PayPal (his very first PP transaction). I think the OP can be forgiven for being naive. This could have happened to anyone inexperienced in this sort of thing.

His is a cautionary tale. I'm glad he took the time to share it.

Since the central reason Paypal gave the OP is that he had a prior account he just needs to contact them, calmly and ask if there's anything he can do to verify he DID NOT have a previous account.

Tell them you want to know if someone used your name, address and other info to open an account previously so you can file an identity theft report and protect your credit. Ask them for whatever info or reference they can give you so you can give it to the police.

It's also possible that someone who lived at your address before you did had an account w/ them. If that's the case you should be able to prove yourself w/ a copy of your lease or home purchase documents.

The scammers and thieves used to just make up a name but now that Paypal requires proof of identity (social security number and so on) they've had to go into full blown identity theft to open accounts to steal with. Since it's still possible to open an account without providing this info they can just get out a phone book and pick your name and address at random, also. They transfer enough money from a previous fraud account over to get a limit high enough to do whatever they plan to do, etc.

All these policy changes by Paypal are not just a response to government regs, most of them are a response to all the fraud and crime being committed. They know it is costing them business and will eventually destroy their business model.

They will either need to come up with better proof of identity requirements or you will see them change to a system where they provide shipping and have the item sent to a verification center while they hold the payment. Once they inspect the item and buyer accepts it they will ship it on and release the payment. While they'd prefer not to do this it's the only way they will be able to stay in business vs. the epidemic of fraud coming out of the former USSR and other developing countries who have internet access. The Google satellite internet will only triple or quadruple the problem in the coming years as more poor countries are given full internet access.

Hell, we even come up with ways to give them cheap / free computers too. It's the Wild, Wild West of our era.

Thats a .AU requirement to catch people who don't pay taxes on every earnings, ie your PayPal payments are taxable.

Your account was closed failing to provide information they require which has been set by your own government. I'm UK and I have made many Paypal accounts over the years from having many businesses, Ive not once received such as message and can only assume that your government has enforced PayPal to require that message as mentioned about avoiding payment on Taxes.

It's only a matter of time to every government does this, they want taxes being paid on 2nd hand goods.

reply to post by tauristercus


Thanks for sharing, I could imagine your frustration. Isn't there a website devoted to complaints against PayPal alone? Although some people will say they've had no problems with it, they probably didn't mind giving personal info..

It's probably a nut or a group of nuts running the company, or the antagonists have taken over it. The desire to get your personal information and the vindictive response to your refusal is very suspicious.

I don't sell on E-Bay, only buy, one day I had a seller refund £1 to me, it sparked an investigation as to why it had happened, I don't think I ever got it back, but because it was such a small amount, I let it ride.

reply to post by tauristercus


lol I would have selected the maximum salary amount... same difference I guess!

Still this is strange that PayPal are being so hard to deal with!? Is there anything you are leaving out? Maybe there was old account linked to your email that had problems?

Either way they should not be allowed to freeze your funds, that is theft!

What about Western Union in the future? I have not used either companies but I have heard Western Union is generally ok to deal with.

I don't understand why the purchaser of your goods did not want to do a direct transfer to begin with, it would have been you handing over your bank account details, not them...

It seems like the simple way especially when banking in the same country.


Ebay should have their own (in-house) transfer system set up, it would save people alot of hassle!!

reply to post by Havick007


eBay owns PayPal. so PayPal IS their in house payment transfer system.

reply to post by iNkGeEk


oh ok I didn't realize that - thanks

Still it seems the whole process could be simplified.

My account is frozen too with over $2500 in it.

They want me to provide a business number. Which is impossible because of the type of business I have.

I have tried telling them this many times and they just ignore me.

Paypal is a scam site, they can steal peoples money and there is nothing anyone can do.

reply to post by tauristercus


I use Paypla often and have never had a problem with them, in fact when my account was hacked in to 2 years ago Paypal froze the account for 3 months and I got my money back that was stolen. I highly recommend Paypal myself.

reply to post by dmsuse


Isn't there some type of 3rd party government body that you can complain to in the UK?

Some type of ombudsman?

Can you get a business number to give them? I'm not sure what you would call it in the UK but in Australia I can get an ABN (Australian Business Number) easily as a sole-trader. An ACN (Australian Company Number) is a little more tricky as you need a registered company for that. But I could get an ABN tomorrow, even if it is my own name (as a sole trader/independent)


www.businesslink.gov.uk...

Being a sole trader is the simplest way to run a business - it does not involve paying any registration fees, keeping records and accounts is straightforward, and you get to keep all the profits.

When you register the business they should provide a business number, unless it is different in the UK?

reply to post by tauristercus


They are extending your credit because you are using their website as a medium to transfer your funds. He can't just go to his bank and do it directly so your actually using the paypal service to hopefully handle your money correctly.

Originally posted by Toolatetotalk
I've been dealing with Paypal for about four years now both for the business I work for and personally. About a year after I started using my personnal account they froze it saying that my address was linked to another bad account that owed them money for some EBay Transactions.

I called to get information and was pretty much told that I needed to get a supena. It was only a couple hundred dollars and more of an announce that they did it. Because I had nothing better todo and I felt insulted I went down to get a supena.

Issues that came up was getting an accurate address and a name for someone to have sign for the supena. After a few days of calls I got half the data I needed. Usually the spend 90-180 days for investigation. (the whole time they are collecting interest on your money) The day after they get the Supena the investigation was closed and the money was taken.

Now I'm really annoyed and looked into filing a small claim against them. The response was them closing my account. But it gets better...

I'm the direct contact for our work paypal which according to last years tax report they send off to the IRS. We do a bit over 500k a year. I was concerned that this issue would affect the business account so I decided to call my rep. (yeah we have a account rep. who actually is extremely helpful)

Not only did he assure me this issue would not affect our account he had the investigation reviewed. He had me send him the paperwork I had gathered to prove the address and email from that bad account wan't mine. Less than a week later my personnal account was active and the funds back in it.

Currently it is our company policy to never leave mor than a grand in the account. Everyone knows they are scamming people all the time and it's pretty common joke in our industry.

Couple Facts
Paypal in the State of Washington is covered by Safeco insurance as a money transfer broker. By law they must transfer all funds within 10days.
Washington State has a law that prevents a debt from being collected after 2-3 years. Although not my account, the transactions in question had been over five years old.

Unless the Attorney General gets involved or the government forces them to act like a bank nothing will change.

One last comment: the only other realistic option for an ecommerce business to use is googlepay. But google pay has zero customer service. I don't mean bad service I mean no phone or contact details.

Thank you for sharing another PayPal horror story. At least, you got resolution to your problem. I doubt that the OP has your resources to fight this.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Unfortunately Nebraska (where the Paypal corporate regime is) disagrees with you. I've had issued with them and the Nebraska's AG has a dedicated team that deals with this company. The moment you threaten to go to them and have a lawyer call them for you they will back down, it's that simple....

Paypal hopes that you won't realize that their terms of service are quite franky illegal, and this is how they make their money, keeping peoples cash for as long as possible to get the interest off of it. I went through this a few years ago, never had a problem since...

All of this discussion on the subject is otherwise academic.

Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by tauristercus

 

I went thru hell trying to get my bank account verified by Paypal, because they said I was reaching my $ limit as a "buyer" :pus: We even had a third party call with my bank telling them my account was verifiable, still wasn't good enough for them and I finally just gave up. There was a repeated solution I notice in my discussions with Paypal and that was to apply for a PP mastercard and I would be easily verified. I honestly think they are making things difficult for people in order to get you into their system where they have total control of your finances. I'm sure they are very aware of the profits credit card companies are making off the people that use Ebay/PP. This may not be relevant to the OP issue but it showed me that they were only concerned with one thing and that was getting as much of my money as they could. I also think their tactics, T&C are a NWO step forward in doing away with currency as we know it. This may just be the conspiracist in me IDK. Yeah, Paypal SUCKS and I will no longer do business with them.

I think you understood the situation correctly:

"There was a repeated solution I notice in my discussions with Paypal and that was to apply for a PP mastercard and I would be easily verified. I honestly think they are making things difficult for people in order to get you into their system where they have total control of your finances."

There's no doubt in my mind they were trying to railroad you into taking their credit card (they probably charge 25% interest).

PayPal is evil.

reply to post by vkey08

and this is how they make their money, interest

Yes! I am so happy you pointed that out!! That is such a scam but a legalized scam.

Alot of large and small banks do this as well. Banks have the means and technology to do immediate account to account transfers but they actually make alot of their money (profits) on the "overnight money markets".

The interest they make is BS considering it is out money they are making interest on.


I was overpaid last year, my payroll screwed up and paid my annual salary in 1 month - yes!

Although I never planned to keep it or hide the fact as I am not that stupid and I am loyal to my employer - I also liked my job.

I did hold it for 3.5 weeks in an interest saving account and got an extra $700 out of it. It wasn't illegal, and after talking with HR, legally I could have kept the whole amount they paid in error. I am serious they told me that (after paying back the money of course ) but after paying back the princibal to them the interest was mine

The banks do this everyday with our money. A friend of mine was on unemployment benefits and they went to Centrelink (Social Sec Au) and said they were under hardship and needed the funds straight away that day. Within 20 minutes the money was in their account!!

So when banks and institutions say that it takes 24 hours or more in some cases.. that is BS, with the exception of personal cheques.

Also if you have an actual case I'm sure your could join some sort of class action law suit. No one is above being sued especially not by greedy lawyer's. So I suggest actually fighting for this legally if anyone ever wants anything to change.

Originally posted by tauristercus
Continued from previous post ...


Just a short while ago, I received an email from PayPal stating that my account was now deactivated and my funds ($302) frozen indefinitely.

I immediately called customer support DEMANDING an explanation, especially as there was NO obvious mention of ANY legal issues ... basically just a generic email citing a number of vague reasons, none of which were even remotely applicable to me.

Again, I demanded a detailed explanation for PayPal's actions in regards to my account and funds and was essentially told that PayPal was under NO obligation whatsoever to provide them.
I pushed the matter and was informed that yes, PayPal had completely suspended my account and it would remain suspended ... that yes, my $302 was frozen for a minimum of 180 days (6 months !) and that yes, I could request a review ... that no, PayPal was not going to explain.

I then asked what would it take to get that explanation from PayPal ... her answer was

Get a subpoena

I slammed the phone down.


So there you have it, a perfect example of why you should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER trust PayPal and if you have accounts with them, my strongest suggestion would be to close and never use them again.
Refuse to do any business with that pack of extortionists.


Hey, Anonymous ... want to take another shot at shutting PayPal down again ?
Only this time make it permanent !


P.S.
Irrespective of any comments to the contrary, I firmly believe that this was PayPal's retaliation and response to my refusing to supply a correct response within their questionnaire regarding my annual income, coupled with the comment I made regarding that particular question and PayPal's need to ask it.

PAYPAL ? Certainly not your PAL and as for PAY ... yeah, sure .... good luck with that !

My question is... did you confirm with the buyer that s/he received the item? Were they satisfied with everything?.. including shipping? It sounds to me like they may have placed some report against you...

just a tip for you guys. if you pick a language like french or some european language when your calling them up and just say you pressed the wrong language when they answer, 95% chance they speak english perfectly