I refused to disclose my annual income to PAYPAL and they froze my funds !

reply to post by TinkerHaus

I don't see any proof that the OP falsified info. He could have just as easily stated his "actual" income with the statement "because I don't believe my annual income is none of pay pals concern" He's merely stating his opinion of the inquiry, no where did he state that he was lying about his income. The words "I picked" and "because" may imply the fact but that depends on interpretation of the one reading it. If he replied to PP with the thread title "I refuse to disclose" or "this is not my actual income because it's none of your concern" that would be different but that's not the case. Its a gray area yes but not one that's 100% incriminating.

reply to post by tauristercus


I used to work at PayPal...needless to say i only worked there for 9 mths. In the middle of my shift i just plain lost it. i was tired of being yelled at by dumb people who were ripping off other people. (not saying that you were/are. just saying that the majority of the calls received by the call center are people scamming on ebay or people using their PayPal account to purchase/sell child porn. honest to God) I called the woman on the other end of the phone a dumb b**ch, stood up, handed my supervisor my ID badge said "im not going to need this anymore. i'm done." he escorted me out of the building and that was that. haven't used PayPal since.

anyway...due to the fact that you had a brand spanking new acct and the very first transaction was over $300 for selling silver, they wanted to make sure you weren't laundering money. that is actually a giant red flag. it happens all the time. That is why they were asking you about how much money you expected to do via PP per month. That form is pretty much SOP for your situation. When you put the nasty-gram on it is when you kicked the hornets nest...because PP thinks that if they suspect someone of money laundering and the person in question blows up like you did, it proves that you were doing something shady. I know, not the best menality to have.

also, the $300 that was put into your PP acct in the first place is a "loan" of PP money because it takes much longer for the actual funds to go from the issuer's bank to the acquiring bank. so PP floats you the money to expidite the process.

Anyway...i suggest everyone stay away from PayPal. they won't answer your questions because if there IS an investigation by law enforcment, they can't tip the person off. Like i said, i dealt with people buying/selling child porn on a daily basis. we were able to find out that's what they were doing by vetting the websites they were doing business with. once PP is able to determine its a child porn issue, they freeze the users PP acct and don't tell them. when they call in, raising 9 levels of Hell, we can't tell them it's for child porn...even tho we know it and they know it. If the FBI or Interpol is investigating we don't want to tip them off and have them destroy evidence.

anywho...i'm really sorry about your experience. PP truely does suck the big one.

reply to post by tauristercus


Thanks for exposing these frauds, sunlight is always the best disinfectant.

I've never had a PayPal or Ebay account, I prefer Craigs List.

I wanted to list something on ebay a few months ago, and they said I needed to verify some bank information, which I had done years ago when I opened the account. I didn't do it and have not been back on ebay since. I don't really think I'll be using it ever again. I can sell stuff in Craigslist just as easily. Ebay can go screw themselves.

Originally posted by iNkGeEk
reply to post by tauristercus

 

I used to work at PayPal...needless to say i only worked there for 9 mths. In the middle of my shift i just plain lost it. i was tired of being yelled at by dumb people who were ripping off other people. (not saying that you were/are. just saying that the majority of the calls received by the call center are people scamming on ebay or people using their PayPal account to purchase/sell child porn. honest to God) I called the woman on the other end of the phone a dumb b**ch, stood up, handed my supervisor my ID badge said "im not going to need this anymore. i'm done." he escorted me out of the building and that was that. haven't used PayPal since.

anyway...due to the fact that you had a brand spanking new acct and the very first transaction was over $300 for selling silver, they wanted to make sure you weren't laundering money. that is actually a giant red flag. it happens all the time. That is why they were asking you about how much money you expected to do via PP per month. That form is pretty much SOP for your situation. When you put the nasty-gram on it is when you kicked the hornets nest...because PP thinks that if they suspect someone of money laundering and the person in question blows up like you did, it proves that you were doing something shady. I know, not the best menality to have.

Thanks for that "insiders" point of view regarding PayPal's call centre operations and their "legal mentality".
I appreciate that money laundering does take place but truthfully, I still fail to see the relevance to PayPal that they should insist on knowing my level of income .. again, none of their f**king business !

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by boncho

 

Can you imagine the amount of money they are making off the float if they do this to many of their clients. Banks here in my state did this for years holding pay checks for 2 weeks sometimes 'to make sure they clear'! All the time investing that held money to make a percentage on the float! When checks bounced because of this they made money on the charges for insufficient funds at 35-50 bucks a whack!! They finally passed laws to stop it here. This could be a huge scam!
Zindo

Exactly.

Time value of money

reply to post by tauristercus


Hoo Haa,
Your are smart one, why not create a New Ebay/ Paypal Website from scratch.
As your experience has clearly described, this is nothing like the EBay/Payment system
of old. It is now a cold robotic system that overcharges on every angle of every transaction.
It is with great dismay that I have witnessed such a great system and community fall victim to
the corporate SWINDLE.

It must be contagious. Stay Immune,

P.S. Paypal is not so bad once you are Verified. Their Security has a great track record.
This fact, is confirmed in their fees. You get what you pay for,

This is a really sad tale. Paypal does take in a tidy sum of your sale and the service can be frustrating to use. This is a classic case though, of losing your cool and not helping with blowing up on customer service.

My first advice would have tried to contain your anger over the situation. You can express frustration, but if you escalate being a demanding customer... well, it doesn't help things. I was once scammed on ebay for a fraudulent auction (A Chinese bootleg DVD collection at $100 value). I had to go through ebay and paypal to get my money back and they had to do the filing and investigation which took time. But I did get my money refunded and the item I got to keep.

Not sure what else to say. I can see you having to wait for your money now since you made a PayPal account and quickly turned around and accepted money... Any scammers could make dummy accounts if paypal didn't authorize and regulate them somehow...

OP: your story sounds a LOT like our experiences with PayPal. Trying to get $100 out of our account was a total nightmare. They gave us all the same crap. Unbelievable. Recently I worked with a seller who took only Paypal and I explained (very briefly) why we absolutely would NOT use PP. She agreed to take a personal check and held it until it cleared.

I know the whole thing is about supposed fraud. But I think they've set up their own demise. If people have any brains. (this is in question) :-/


ETA: just so you know, putting your actual income on there would not have helped. In our case the account is permanently frozen because we can't provide a utility bill for our permanent residence. We don't receive utilities at our permanent residence.

reply to post by tauristercus


How does everyone keep missing this, it's right there in one of the first replies Paypal sent you. They are saying you had a prior account which is why they cancelled this one.

Did you have a previous Paypal account under your name or a different name???

Most of the people on here posting didn't catch that first line. The OP must have made an account in the past and forgot about it.

Anyway I think Paypal went to #s when they got bought by eBay. I've had PP for about 10 years and in the beginning I had problems. I sold a Nintendo Wii when it first came out to a couple in another state. It was brand spanking new. I get my money and leave it in there because I was planning on using it to buy something else. I log in one day and see the money put on hold.

I call them and they tell me the buyer filed a chargeback because there the stand became lodged in the unit. Their idiot kid must have screwed up a game and stuck it in backwards. The way the unit is package would make it impossible for the stand to become lodged in the unit.I sent them receipts of the unit that I purchased brand new along with pictures and supporting material showing that the stand couldn't have been lodged in the system.

I received the Wii back and luckily I had purchased insurance. I take it to Best Buy and they investigate and find a game stuck upside down in it. I ended up getting a replacement with the insurance plan I purchased. I was actually going to message them after the sale to see about transferring the warranty into their name. Those #s left me bad feedback and I got burned. I no longer sell on eBay anymore. I just buy since I don't have to worry about getting shafted.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by tauristercus

 

How does everyone keep missing this, it's right there in one of the first replies Paypal sent you. They are saying you had a prior account which is why they cancelled this one.

Did you have a previous Paypal account under your name or a different name???

edit on 17-5-2012 by ecoparity because: (no reason given)

Simple answer ... no prior PayPal accounts.

As I explained in my OP, I informed any potential eBay bidders that I preferred direct bank to bank transfer ... purely because I did NOT have a PayPal account and didn't want to go through the hassle of creating one. When the buyer stated they preferred to use PayPal, I agreed to their request and went through the process of setting one up. If I had an exisiting PayPal account, then I would obviously have used that and it wouldn't have been an issue.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
The answer is fairly obvious to me. In the first letter screenshot it says,

"But, just like a bank, we sometimes need to confirm some details you have given us so that we can comply with Australian Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing laws as outlined in our User Agreement..."

Then you say:

Originally posted by tauristercus
The item was completely harmless and innocuous ... it was just 300 gms of pure silver in the form of small "buttons".
eBay had NO issues with the sale whatsoever ... just PayPal.

This was an issue with the legal authorities who had concerns that money (silver) was leaving the country. Welcome to the 21st century... there is now a full investigation of you happening behind your back. PayPal, while there is no love lost between me and them, is just the messenger. Have you verified with your customer that they received the silver? It could be sitting in a shelf in an investigation room somewhere.

I hope you eventually get your money.

TheRedneck

This sounds like the case. The OP's actions seem suspect, if not innocent, and is probably under investigation by the bank + police, much less PayPal.

OP you're trading silver "buttons" over ebay to a foreign country? "buttons" sound like coins.

If your client was in the US, or Oz has the same laws:

www.projectworldawareness.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Though the Act sounds ridiculous, it's unfortunately the law.

I'm sorry to say this, but you may be under investigation. Get a good lawyer.

reply to post by tauristercus


OK, I'm going to venture a guess as to what the problem was.

I see one, possibly two red flags set off by your transaction.

First- You sold silver. In today's screwed up economy, trading in precious metals is closely monitored. If your item were a rare electric train or other collectible it may have gone unnoticed. They may have thought you to be a serious dealer. Just a theory here.

Second- This one I am nearly certain is true. Your response is what put the nail in the coffin.

You LIED and then ADMITTED it right on the form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sure there is a clause in their user agreement where you swear that you have given them factual information.
In the very form they sent you it states the third possible reason is " A violation of another Paypal policy or agreement you have with us"
By admitting you violated the agreement you have given PP the right to KEEP YOUR MONEY!!!
Had you not written that note in the margin, your account may have been approved and you would right now be $300 richer.

Originally posted by CantSay
OP you're trading silver "buttons" over ebay to a foreign country? "buttons" sound like coins.

If your client was in the US, or Oz has the same laws:

www.projectworldawareness.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Though the Act sounds ridiculous, it's unfortunately the law.

I'm sorry to say this, but you may be under investigation. Get a good lawyer.

Your link said trading would cease on july 15th 2011, and since it didn't I would say the first link is suspect.

Originally posted by wdkirk
reviews.ebay.com...


Interesting read about gold and silver items on Ebay.

Take a look. It might explain something.

Thanks, wdkirk, for providing that link. It explains a lot. What you don't know can really bite you on your @#%.

Redneck is probably right, the OP is probably being investigated by the Australian gov. If selling raw pure silver wasn't enough of a red flag, then his drawing attention to the fact that he wasn't giving accurate info on his income definitely got their attention.

What would worry me most is the spectre of Identity Theft. The OP states this is the FIRST PP account he has opened, and yet PP is saying he has had several PP accounts in the past. He needs to find out who is using his name or who has the same name. He needs to review his credit bureau reports.

The OP needs to get in touch with the Australian counterpart of our Secretary of State Consumer Protection Division. Talking to a lawyer (who specializes in business & financial law) would really help.

As I am currently too exhausted to read anymore before bed.. I am not sure if anyone has put this. I have tried to make a pay pal account in the past only for the registering of it to go completely wrong. It would say I already had an account with the email I used but yet sent me no confirmation email ever. Forcing me to use a different email with the same info though. Perhaps this is what happened when paypal mentioned more than one account. Just a guess though! Sorry you're temp out 300 bucks man dang!!

CONSUMER RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED BY PAYPAL

In my opinion PAYPAL are first and foremost primarily interested in providing a safe service to the buyers of your products. It is because you are the seller of a product, that is why the money in your PAYPAL account is being held back from you for the required 180 days, or more, so that the persons who buy your products can be reimbursed if they subsequently might decide that the product that they have bought from you is not completely to their pleasure. In my understanding this 180 days, or more, delay procedure is necessary, but obviously upsetting for you as a trader. My advice to you as a trader is that you should continue trading via PAYPAL, but with the understanding that the funds are not going to be transfered immediately, like as were your original expectation. My advice to you is provided simply as a friend and has no legal status.

The law that I live by and which is holding us all bonded is called PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (tm). I did not read it in a book. You will not find it in any book. It was revealed to me by audio clairvoyance during the celebrations of the New Millennium in 2000. Summed up it basically means no sex no drugs and no violence. (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the one absolute. The One True God. Her names are many but she be the one true God there be no other God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La Deus Nostra, Notre Dame, Our Lady, The Holy Spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving Her Holiness Above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to Her Holiness Above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception [parthenogenesis] reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright NGL(c)2000.

He who trusts in violence to be his security cannot speak that he trusts in God to be his security.

SHIMONO

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

Originally posted by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by CantSay
OP you're trading silver "buttons" over ebay to a foreign country? "buttons" sound like coins.

If your client was in the US, or Oz has the same laws:

www.projectworldawareness.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Though the Act sounds ridiculous, it's unfortunately the law.

I'm sorry to say this, but you may be under investigation. Get a good lawyer.

Your link said trading would cease on july 15th 2011, and since it didn't I would say the first link is suspect.

Suspect with forex.com, but it highlights the Dodd-Frank Act and how precious metals are being handled legally. I suspect that Oz law has a similar provision especially since they have some of the best silver in the world.

Anyway, here is some old legal info for trading precious metals in Australia:

"All you need is a secondhand dealer's license. You should also have an ABN, and be registered for GST. You'd need to contact the Australian Taxation Office for those two things.

The secondhand dealer's license is available by clicking below:

www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au...

Each state of Australia requires a secondhand dealing license if you want to buy and sell gold, so if you aren't in Queensland you'd need to contact your state's office of fair trading to obtain the above form for your state."