Why do Christians Defy Their Own Religion?

The entire purpose for Christianity to exist is, according to the words of its own Prophet and his disciples, to spread the word of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection and bring the Gospel to every living creature.

It does not exist to write laws.

It does not exist to enforce morality.

It does not exist to be tangled up in Earthly affairs.

Its only purpose is the proclamation of the Gospel. There is no other legitimate activity for Christians to pursue in the name of Christianity.

Furthermore, the spread of the Gospel is simply telling people about Jesus. It does not include forcing anyone to choose Jesus, much less forcing anyone to stop committing sin. The word of the Christian Savior is supposed to be so profoundly moving that, for those who will accept Jesus, they need no other persuasion or coercion.

So it is completely outside the scope of Christianity to engage in politics, to wrangle "sinners," to enforce moral codes on non-believers. Most importantly it is completely antithetical to the entire premise of Christianity to do ANYTHING that blemishes the image of Christ.

Christianity is nothing without its attractiveness to the unsaved. So why would Christians pursue these frivolous and counterproductive obsessions with Constitutional amendments and outlawing abortion and generally standing in the way of things they don't like? The answer is simple. It is because they are behaving as mere humans, motivated not by the faith and love they pay lip service to once a week but by the fear, mistrust and prejudice that drive all humans to do what we do. That they use the name of their religion -- their God -- in the furtherance of these entirely mortal objectives only stains the name of their Savior.

In truth Christians ought to keep their moral codes to themselves, and hold no one to them who has not already sword a life of Christian piety. If the world wants to wash itself in what Christians see as filth and sin, well, that's the world's prerogative. It is what Christians believe the world is doing anyway. Christians should bring the news of their Savior, and let those who will follow, follow, and those who won't, go their own separate way. This is what Jesus did when he was here. Why do Christians think they are so smart that they have discovered a better way to salvation than their own namesake?

One word... "church"...

Star and Flag...

Because they have been systematically deceived for a very very long time. The entire history of western Christianity is a history of deception and misunderstanding. Please see this thread for a deeper explanation of the historical underpinnings of this misguided version of a beautiful gift from God. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

I guess its because they are only human. You know not perfect.

Originally posted by GmoS719
Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

That may be true, if you are a Christian speaking of "true Christianity." But it doesn't matter.

Since Christianity exists specifically and solely for the purpose of winning over the unsaved, what Christians think of themselves is absolutely irrelevant. It is what the unsaved think of Christians that matters. Are they cruel? Inhumane? Uncaring? Callous? If so, then the mission to save them has already failed.

Originally posted by GmoS719
Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically said it is the duty of every real Christian to preach, to bring the news of salvation. It is not their duty to try to pass laws that affect people who are not Christians. That isn't preaching or spreading the Gospel, it's ruling. I never inferred that Christians shouldn't be allowed to speak their minds. They should just recognize that their opinions and beliefs are just that -- opinions and beliefs. NOT laws.

Originally posted by vexati0n

Originally posted by GmoS719
Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

You didn't read what I wrote. I specifically said it is the duty of every real Christian to preach, to bring the news of salvation. It is not their duty to try to pass laws that affect people who are not Christians. That isn't preaching or spreading the Gospel, it's ruling. I never inferred that Christians shouldn't be allowed to speak their minds. They should just recognize that their opinions and beliefs are just that -- opinions and beliefs. NOT laws.

Your title says "Why do Christians defy their own religion" When it should have read...
"Why do people pretend to be christians?"

I did read what you wrote and who are YOU to say what a real Christian should do?
Are YOU a Christian? If not, why do you care so much?
I could say the same thing about you. It's not your "duty" to "rule" Christians.
You should recognize your opinions and beliefs are biased, and not fact.

Originally posted by vexati0n

Originally posted by GmoS719
Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

Are they cruel? Inhumane? Uncaring? Callous? If so, then the mission to save them has already failed.

None of these are qualities of a Christian, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Originally posted by GmoS719

Originally posted by vexati0n

Originally posted by GmoS719
Not all Christians are like this. In fact, if you claim to be a Christian and do the things you mentioned you are not a Christian at all. So maybe you should be more clear so you don't push a biased opinion.
You use the word "force" a lot. Praying for the salvation of friends and loved ones is not forcing.
Politely asking people if they are interested in hearing the word of God is not forcing.
Preaching the word of God & Jesus (which you call moral-codes) is not forcing.
Your definition of "Christian" is the exact opposite. I know plenty of Christians who don't match your description.

Are they cruel? Inhumane? Uncaring? Callous? If so, then the mission to save them has already failed.

None of these are qualities of a Christian, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

edit on 16-5-2012 by GmoS719 because: (no reason given)

What I'm getting at is that, even though these qualities may not describe what you would call a "true" Christian, they are qualities that are often associated with Christianity nonetheless, by non-Christians. The "True" Christians have allowed their religion to be overrun with the hateful and the cruel, and as a result their religion is known to many millions of people as inhumane and intolerant.

Whether that is the "true" face of Christianity or not is irrelevant, because it is the REPUTATION of Christianity. And, as a result, people who might otherwise be persuaded by "true" Christians, won't give a second thought to shunning Christianity.

It's foolish to pretend that because Jesus did not teach cruelty and intolerance that Christianity does not have a serious problem with its adherents being cruel and intolerant. It may not affect YOU, but it is affecting your ability to win the souls of the unsaved.

Isn't it time that the "true" Christians take their religion back from the hatemongers, homophobes, zealots and theocrats? Or is it better to allow the name of the Christian God to be synonymous with those people?

reply to post by vexati0n


I suspect this issue is because of human nature.. a particularly rather nasty one (IMHO) at that. The nature I speak of is the one of Ego. It's in our nature to divide ourselves from each other. To hold ones self over another on some perceived basis.. in this case purity, salvation, righteousness, etc, etc.. It's basically a load of bull piss. Anything that can be used to thumb a nose at others and/or brag about will be. You've a better paying job translates to you are smarter (not just more educated/studied and experienced) and therefore above those who don't.

This problem isn't limited to Christians of course, nor is is all-encompassing. It is my humble opinion that those who have worked to stave off an inflated ego (Humbled themselves) are those that are true(r) to form in their respective religions/beliefs. Those who understand that we are all the same, can think critically and fairly, and see the horse crap for what it is are a better example. Those people do exist (and I by no means call myself one), but we can agree they are few and far between..

There is a phrase that a studied Christian knows... "babes in Christ"

It refers to the new... neophyte... spiritually immature Christian.

A new born child or a 10 year old child or the 30 year old adult does not know everything even though they are human. Likewise, a person that becomes a Chrisitian does not know or is not even aware of how to be a Christian. It is a lifelong walk or journey.

Too often, the walk never begins. Many people that become Christians never grow spiritually, intellectually, or even socially. They believe they have signed the golden contract and they are "saved" and no further effort on their part is neccessary.

Others do grow, but because of poor instruction, blind faith and following, are led down a destructive and hurtful path by bad leaders, teachers, or instruction.

Unfortunately, too many Christians do not read the Bible in it's entirity if even at all... they are remotely aware of some of it's words and instruction. Most of what they believe, they heard and "learned" from a speaker or song or story not even based on the Bible.

For instance, Many Christian's beliefs of Heaven are based on Greek mythology,... same with Hell. Their view of the Apocolypse comes from a series of fictional books or movies...they know that Moses looked like Charlton Heston and Pharoah looked like Yul Brennar... and their knowledge of the Crucifiction comes from The Passion of the Christ.

But many have never read the actual Biblical accounts nor ever heard of Ezekiels wheel or Behemoth or that Jeremiah 5 speaks out against Christmas Trees.... nope, they will meet Aunt Sally in her pink and white dress with little cherub baby angels fluttering by cause some hymn said so.

I am a Christian. I have read the bible and after reading it several times, I still find stuff that amazes me. I find words that force me to grow and think beyond what I was taught here in this world and by my family.

For instance, the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin... but so is excessive drinking, anger, lust... like internet porn or looking too long at the cashier at the store...gluttony, selfishness, lying, wanting to kill someone...even if you don't... just the desire to kill or commit adultery is wrong. So what church goer is better than the gay person ...none.

If we read what the Bible says... and I wrote this elsewhere... it says to "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"...with no conditions. That means my straight neighbor, my gay neighbor, my white-black-brown neighbor, basically...love everybody.

Too many Christians are hell bent on being 'Hunters" of men when Jesus said be "Fishers of men"... big difference.

reply to post by vexati0n

Its only purpose is the proclamation of the Gospel. There is no other legitimate activity for Christians to pursue in the name of Christianity.

"To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:19
That would be the Gospel.
What you are talking about is something else, such as personal salvation for yourself.
We are supposed to be doing good things like what else is in that passage, comforting the downtrodden.
Jesus came to save the world, not a select few.

reply to post by Inquisitive1

Originally posted by Inquisitive1
The nature I speak of is the one of Ego.

I think you hit it on the head. The first sign of "ego" is when we're 2 years old and we realize what it means to "own" something. When we have a toy and someone tries to take it, we say, "MINE"! and identify with it, we have this "power" of ownership and attachment. We identify with the toy. It becomes part of us. It's the same with religion.

People see their religion as who they are instead of what it is - a control mechinism.

I often wonder if people who call themselves "Christian" REALLY believe the story they're pushing... And I have come to the conclusion that no, MOST of them absolutely do not believe it. Yet, they are just SO attached to it and identify so strongly with it (because of indoctrination, usually) that they find it impossible to let go of it out of fear... So, they live their lives however they see fit, while pushing the dogma of a religion they don't even live by...

It's a mess, IMO. I'm so glad I'm completely out of it. It wasn't easy, but I escaped.

Why wouldn't a Christian be in their scope to have a voice and opinion regarding government and law? Are we inferring that "Christians" should have no say in these matters? That's bull. Crap. People have the freedom to assemble and voice their opinions, period. It doesn't matter if their Christian, Atheist, or another religion.

I know a lot of Christians, though I am not one myself. I've never met a "cruel" Christian, (well, except online) in fact, they are a rather sociable, caring lot from my experiences.

As to the horrid history Christianity has suffered through the violence of different centuries of change - so what? Certainly Christians of today cannot be held responsible for the actions of men in the past. War is inevitable - with or without religion. It's not as though if religion was to disappear, so would war. It's just not true. We would war, we'd find something to fight about.

I'm not Christian, but I still disagree. They have every right to a voice in matters that affect their life. This would include issues like government and laws. The premises that being a Christian means they should not is rather unfair. Regardless of faith, we all should have an opinion and the freedom to voice that opinion - on any matter.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
Why wouldn't a Christian be in their scope to have a voice and opinion regarding government and law? Are we inferring that "Christians" should have no say in these matters? That's bull. Crap. People have the freedom to assemble and voice their opinions, period. It doesn't matter if their Christian, Atheist, or another religion.

I know a lot of Christians, though I am not one myself. I've never met a "cruel" Christian, (well, except online) in fact, they are a rather sociable, caring lot from my experiences.

As to the horrid history Christianity has suffered through the violence of different centuries of change - so what? Certainly Christians of today cannot be held responsible for the actions of men in the past. War is inevitable - with or without religion. It's not as though if religion was to disappear, so would war. It's just not true. We would war, we'd find something to fight about.

I'm not Christian, but I still disagree. They have every right to a voice in matters that affect their life. This would include issues like government and laws. The premises that being a Christian means they should not is rather unfair. Regardless of faith, we all should have an opinion and the freedom to voice that opinion - on any matter.

Voicing an opinion is fine. I don't say they should just shut up. But to claim it is inherently a "Christian" activity to impose laws on people who are not Christians, just because they are doing things Christians don't agree with, is the height of hypocrisy.

For example - it does not affect an individual Christian if two people of the same sex wish to get married. Many Christians oppose this because it violates their moral codes. It's fine that they have a moral code that prohibits that - and it's fine that they say so. It's even fine if they try to pass laws against it. What isn't OK is that they pretend that imposing that morality on people who have not accepted Christianity as their faith is somehow "the Christian thing to do," when in fact the Christian thing to do would be to voice their opinion and then allow people to do whatever they want to do - even if they disagree.

Christ himself said the Kingdom of God is not an Earthly kingdom. Trying to transform an Earthly society into some kind of Christian utopia is not only futile, it's completely antithetical to the teachings of Christ.

"I have no problem with Jesus or God, I just cant stand his fans!"

It seems as if Christian politicians intend to force their religious beliefs upon us all using governmental laws and regulations as a vehicle to make non religious people conform to their beliefs.

If you look at it that way, I believe the word "Force" explains it perfectly.

reply to post by vexati0n

The entire purpose for Christianity to exist is, according to the words of its own Prophet and his disciples, to spread the word of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection and bring the Gospel to every living creature.

Tell me, was that you really meant there, "every living creature? Please clarify. Living creature encompass all animal life, and, to a certain extent, insect life also.

It does not exist to write laws.

Then they need to stay off Capital Hill, and stop trying to influence voting.

It does not exist to enforce morality.

Easy. Stop demonizing Gay people, and those who choose to live together without marriage, and women for the ways they dress themselves.

Its only purpose is the proclamation of the Gospel. There is no other legitimate activity for Christians to pursue in the name of Christianity.

Well, the word "Gospel" means "Good News" and all we ever get is the same old rhetoric, the same threats of eternal damnation, and the same fear. I am one who is more than ready for some real good news, Got any today?

In truth Christians ought to keep their moral codes to themselves, and hold no one to them who has not already sword a life of Christian piety. If the world wants to wash itself in what Christians see as filth and sin, well, that's the world's prerogative. It is what Christians believe the world is doing anyway. Christians should bring the news of their Savior, and let those who will follow, follow, and those who won't, go their own separate way. This is what Jesus did when he was here. Why do Christians think they are so smart that they have discovered a better way to salvation than their own namesake?

Well said. In this board, they come and go, or rather, they come, they preach, and they get banned. And yes, Christians do think they are smarter than everyone else, just look around in the religious threads is you doubt me on this.
In truth, if ANY Christian actually believes that they need to save "every living creature...." my dog is a terrible sinner, he sleeps around with the neighborhood dogs, and eats his own poop. I think he needs saving.

Had you recieved The Holy Spirit you would have understood what moves a man where life if threatened. What is complexity to a disbeliever is simplicity to a believer.

The submission to GOD, the trust, the will... these are miracles in themselves, gifts from GOD.

Even belief is a gift. If this weren't so, you'd easily believe.

Originally posted by vexati0n
The entire purpose for Christianity to exist is, according to the words of its own Prophet and his disciples, to spread the word of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection and bring the Gospel to every living creature.

It does not exist to write laws.

It does not exist to enforce morality.

It does not exist to be tangled up in Earthly affairs.

Its only purpose is the proclamation of the Gospel. There is no other legitimate activity for Christians to pursue in the name of Christianity.

Furthermore, the spread of the Gospel is simply telling people about Jesus. It does not include forcing anyone to choose Jesus, much less forcing anyone to stop committing sin. The word of the Christian Savior is supposed to be so profoundly moving that, for those who will accept Jesus, they need no other persuasion or coercion.

So it is completely outside the scope of Christianity to engage in politics, to wrangle "sinners," to enforce moral codes on non-believers. Most importantly it is completely antithetical to the entire premise of Christianity to do ANYTHING that blemishes the image of Christ.

Christianity is nothing without its attractiveness to the unsaved. So why would Christians pursue these frivolous and counterproductive obsessions with Constitutional amendments and outlawing abortion and generally standing in the way of things they don't like? The answer is simple. It is because they are behaving as mere humans, motivated not by the faith and love they pay lip service to once a week but by the fear, mistrust and prejudice that drive all humans to do what we do. That they use the name of their religion -- their God -- in the furtherance of these entirely mortal objectives only stains the name of their Savior.

In truth Christians ought to keep their moral codes to themselves, and hold no one to them who has not already sword a life of Christian piety. If the world wants to wash itself in what Christians see as filth and sin, well, that's the world's prerogative. It is what Christians believe the world is doing anyway. Christians should bring the news of their Savior, and let those who will follow, follow, and those who won't, go their own separate way. This is what Jesus did when he was here. Why do Christians think they are so smart that they have discovered a better way to salvation than their own namesake?

I find that there are very few people I can agree with when it comes to what the bible teaches. People who believe the bible believe that the teachings of Jesus will be scorned, mocked, ridiculed, ect. Some of those who believed in the existence of God in Jesus' time thought that Jesus was blaspheming God, some thought he was demon posessed, some of his own family members thought he'd gone mad.
The wind blows where it may, so it is with everyone born of the spirit.
I gotta say. I don't believe in "unconditional love". It is said that God is love, well correct me if I am wrong but does God not have standards?
Say for instance I told ya I loved ya but wouldn't help you out in your time of extreme need even if I had the means to help, could I get away with that and say, "Love is unconditional, how dare you limit me to certain conditions?"
Just doesn't sit right with me.
If we each live under different conditions how can we say that there are none?
Did Jesus draw lines in the sand or didn't he?
I know a lot of people here think I hate them. Yes I hate, but I don't hate ATS members, I wouldn't come here if I did, why would I want to put myself in membership with people I hate?
They say the truth hurts, but I think it only hurts those who accept it and even then they can come to uphold it.