The Outer and the Inner Freemasons

reply to post by All Seeing Eye

My favorite:

“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”- Mark Twain

Originally posted by network dude

“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”- Mark Twain

A great quote by one of my favorite Masons.

This quote isn't necessarily a mason, but he was a carpenter.

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become
as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

-Jesus of Nazareth

Does this happen to have anything to do with the outer and inner Freemasons?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


No not really. That has to do with humbling yourself and believing in Christ completely, as did the child he brought into the midst of his disciples. It also is representative of the innocence of a child not marred by sins. In order to accept Christ, for a Christian, one must strive to maintain such a sinless life style as a child does.

I'm not Christian any more, but I believe the passage you posted would be good for any person to strive to live by. Be humble, embrace innocence, and walk the path before you with benevolence and respect in order to prepare for the next step in the journey, death. I have no issues with the teachings of Jesus, or the lessons and history that can be learned from diligent study of the Bible, and other Holy books. My problem is with organized religion in general.

In a sense you could relate this to the teachings of freemasonry, but I don't believe, IMHO, that this passage pertains to anything specifically Masonic. I could be wrong though.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Maybe, outer, and inner, secret societies? Very nice observation.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


There is speculation that Jesus maintained a veil of secrecy and only provided certain information to the disciples in the tradition of the Essenes and Nasoreans. The allegory of not casting your "pearls before swine" is often used to illustrate this point.

In the gnostic Gospels that were discovered at Nag Hammadi there are some controversial depictions of Christ and his teachings.

There is one point where Jesus pulls Thomas aside to share some information with him. (I can't remember if this is in the New Testament or just the Gospel of Thomas).

When Thomas comes back to the group the others ask what Jesus told him. Thomas said that if he told them they would immediately stone him to death.

Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom You are like." Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have measured out." And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?" Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

At one point in the Gospel of Thomas the hint of an inner/outer organization is given:

Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

I am not sure if this sort of esoteric stuff went on in early Christianity, but it certainly makes sense.

G.R.S. Mead, who collected and translated works of the early Gnostic Christians published several books on the subject of early Christian mysticism.

One of these "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten" recalls some of the oracular "Logoi" or myths/tales of Jesus by those who remember him. It is a collection of sayings attributed to Jesus.

Some seem to suggest the inner/outer system:

Guard the mysteries for Me and for the sons of My house.

reply to post by emsed1

Very nice find!

This in itself is just more circumstantial evidence that by itself is meaningless. But coupled with other testimony starts to paint a picture that is more understandable. More revealing as to who, and or what Jesus was.

Judas [said] to him, “I know who you are and where you have come from. You are
from the immortal realm of Barbelo. And I am not worthy to utter the name of the one
who has sent you.”

Now Judas is offered a deal of sorts.

JESUS SPEAKS TO JUDAS PRIVATELY
Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom. It is
possible for you to reach it, but you will grieve a great deal. [36] For someone else will
replace you, in order that the twelve [disciples] may again come to completion with their
god.”
Judas said to him, “When will you tell me these things, and [when] will the great day
of light dawn for the generation?”
But when he said this, Jesus left him.

www.nationalgeographic.com...

Now the inner society has a name, Barbelo.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


That's a new term to me.

Interesting! Well, there goes the rest of my day chasing this down!

reply to post by emsed1


It'd be better to post a link about gnosticism itself since i have noticed differences from christianity as we know it.Learn the things you want to learn but make sure you read them as a whole.If you'll take one lil part from here and one lil part from there i think you'll end up confusing your own self. (i'm not criticizing you,i'm just trying to help.for all i know you could allready be doing that)

Wikipedia link for gnosticism: en.wikipedia.org...


Take care.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by emsed1

 

It'd be better to post a link about gnosticism itself since i have noticed differences from christianity as we know it.Learn the things you want to learn but make sure you read them as a whole.If you'll take one lil part from here and one lil part from there i think you'll end up confusing your own self. (i'm not criticizing you,i'm just trying to help.for all i know you could allready be doing that)

Wikipedia link for gnosticism: en.wikipedia.org...


Take care.

If you'll take one lil part from here and one lil part from there i think you'll end up confusing your own self. (i'm not criticizing you,i'm just trying to help.for all i know you could allready be doing that)

I believe he already stated he does in fact do that, but in a guarded way. Collect those bits and pieces, but do it in a guarded manner, and try not to take things out of their original context.

Each bit and piece from the past must not be judged at first! But, it also must not be dis guarded as myth or fairy tail either. Stay neutral on your opinion until sufficient materials become available to either prove or disprove your train of thought. I believe this is why the Christian Bible is so confusing to some, because it was an early attempt to tell the story, but ended up with something taken completely out of the original context.

Some believe this was done intentionally while others believe it was just human error in the translation. I myself believe it to be both, intentional, and human error. Why? Because just as emsed1 has brought to the light

Guard the mysteries for Me and for the sons of My house.

The major question now becomes, do they have a right, obligation to continue this secrecy? Who or what are they "Guarding", and from, who or what?

If we are to believe the Gospel of Judas, he tells us a portion of that secret.

SCENE 2: Jesus appears to the disciples again
The next morning, after this happened, Jesus [appeared] to his disciples again.
They said to him, “Master, where did you go and what did you do when you left us?”
Jesus said to them, “I went to another great and holy generation.”
His disciples said to him, “Lord, what is the great generation that is superior to us and
holier than us, that is not now in these realms?”
When Jesus heard this, he laughed and said to them, “Why are you thinking in your
hearts about the strong and holy generation? [37] Truly [I] say to you, no one born [of]
this aeon will see that [generation], and no host of angels of the stars will rule over that
generation, and no person of mortal birth can associate with it, because that generation
does not come from […] which has become […]. The generation of people among [you]
is from the generation of humanity […] power, which [… the] other powers […] by
[which] you rule.”
When [his] disciples heard this, they each were troubled in spirit. They could not say a
word.
Another day Jesus came up to [them]. They said to [him], “Master, we have seen you
in a [vision], for we have had great [dreams …] night […].”
[He said], “Why have [you … when] have gone into hiding?”

www.nationalgeographic.com...

”
Jesus said to them, “I went to another great and holy generation.”

The question is this, why do we not know of this holy generation today? Why is this not taught in christian doctrine? Simple answer would be, because all the sects today that claim to be "Christians" are in fact, not Christians but a clever substitute called "Judeo Christians".

Judeo-Christian (also Abrahamism) is a term used in a historical sense to refer to the connections between the precursors of Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism in the Second Temple period

en.wikipedia.org... How can a religion that believes in Jesus be absorbed by a religion that did not believe in him, and still stay faithful to the word, or context of the message?

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


I wanted to remind that we shouldn't forget to look at the whole picture.To take pieces from something and add them to something else we have first to make sure those two things are about the same subject which is something i don't see between gnosticism and christianity as we know it.From the things i've read,gnostics don't believe in the holy trinity and i wonder "Is that christianity?Can it be called as such?" .From my point of view we're talking about similar but not indentical religions.

How can a religion that believes in Jesus be absorbed by a religion that did not believe in him, and still stay faithful to the word, or context of the message?

Sorry but you might have to rephrase that because i'm utterly confused here.Isn't that supposed to be a mix between judaism and christianity?What does that have to do with anything?Sorry for the trouble but you totally lost me there.

reply to post by Oceanborn


Good point..

I like the Gnostic texts found here:

Sacred Texts

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

I wanted to remind that we shouldn't forget to look at the whole picture.To take pieces from something and add them to something else we have first to make sure those two things are about the same subject which is something i don't see between gnosticism and christianity as we know it.From the things i've read,gnostics don't believe in the holy trinity and i wonder "Is that christianity?Can it be called as such?" .From my point of view we're talking about similar but not indentical religions.

How can a religion that believes in Jesus be absorbed by a religion that did not believe in him, and still stay faithful to the word, or context of the message?

Sorry but you might have to rephrase that because i'm utterly confused here.Isn't that supposed to be a mix between judaism and christianity?What does that have to do with anything?Sorry for the trouble but you totally lost me there.

I think there may be a misconception of Gnostics. There is sort of an 'official' Gnostic belief of certain things like the 'demiurge' etc.

I tend to follow the general thought of (little g) gnosticism. In my mind it is the same concept as mysticism. In other words (and I think canonical scripture supports this) the Truth can't come from written or spoken words, but only through a gnosis or "knowing".

As for myself I think the closest definition of my beliefs would be "Christian Universalist Mystic".

I have arrived at this (ever-changing) philosophy through a combination of things like:

- personal revelation
- discernment
- epiphany
- logic/criticism/reason/debate
- intuition

I can recall about four "big" moments of personal revelation that left me in shock and awe, and filled with joy.

The intuition and discernment process has lead me to the conviction that love is the most important thing.

Logic and reason have lead me to the belief that a loving creator would never give his children free will AND burn them up in eternal fire if they make bad choices.

And, I think like you, that one of the greatest errors a person can make is taking a single verse and using it to form an entire belief system.

reply to post by emsed1


Thanks for the link and i apologise for not answering your question but like i said,i missed the point of it.Sorry if the fault for that is on my part.

EDIT: I didn't expect a second reply.I'll edit this comment after reading your second one.


After reading your second comment:

Before i say anything please keep in mind that by no means i'm saying "this belief is wrong","that one is right".If you're gnostic don't take offence by anything i'm saying.I have nothing against gnostics (i haven't even met one to be honest).

I definatelly see your point and your way of thinking but here's the thing: Jesus said "I am the way,the truth and the life." Instantly we see a big difference between christianity and gnosticism and that's one of the reasons i said that i view them as similar but different religions.If we'll mix them up,IMHO,both sides (gnostics and non-gnostics) are in danger of straying away from their beliefs.

That's the reason i tried to bring the focus on the big picture,i hope this doesn't count as going off-topic.

Thanks for sharing your views with me.

reply to post by Oceanborn


Thank you for the feedback, it makes life much easier.

Sorry but you might have to rephrase that because i'm utterly confused here.Isn't that supposed to be a mix between judaism and christianity?What does that have to do with anything?Sorry for the trouble but you totally lost me there.

In laymen s terms, if you cant stop something, you infiltrate it and take it over, from inside. The true Christianity was far more on track with the true history of mankind and the teachings of the Christos himself. He revealed many occult truths about this planet and the "Ancient Ones" who are also known as the "the strong and holy generation". The word "gnosticism" translates to knowledge, or to know something. Jesus was a gnostic because he knew the occult truths and tried to share them with the world. This is where we all became lost.

Jesus was a wild card in that he was a danger to the powers that be. He proved this when he toppled the money changers table, and of course, they were Jewish money changers. Jesus was here to chew bubble gum and kick, you know, and he was all out of Bubble Gum.

Jesus enlightened almost a generation of slaves, err, people. The powers that be could not let this spiritual revolution take place. They had too much to loose. At any rate they decided it would be imposable to gather up all the people who had been infected by the Jesus mentality so they decided to infiltrate Christianity in a big way and take over the organization and feed the people that followed a steady diet of fairy tales, myths, and outright fabrications.

Yes, its is suppose to be a mix of religious beliefs, but in IMHO, It was the PTB way of controlling information that was not intended to be released. And Judeo Christianity today is nothing more than damage control.

It has everything to do with knowing the truth as to who and what you really are, and releasing you from the slavery of ignorance you are in. "And the truth shall set you free".

Jesus tried to teach us that we are in fact a duality of existence, spiritual and physical. Our spirits can and have reincarnated on this plane of existence, and as you know this train of thought was completely expunged from "Judeo Christianity", Why? Because if you knew your spirit lived forever there would be no fear of death, no fear. And as you may know Fear is the greatest controller of mankind, past and present.

Again note that this is a rough translation. It is compounded by the duality of our being, forces who wish none of this see the light of day,and, reincarnation of the spirit.

Does this help you, if not I can continue.

reply to post by Oceanborn


Hi,

There are a couple of verses in the New Testament that are often held up as examples of Christian exclusivity. However, there are also more than 600 verses that support universalism, and about 100 that say SPECIFICALLY that Christ died so that all may be saved.

My comfort comes in knowing that Christ said he was going away but was sending the Holy Spirit (comforter, advocate) to guide us in love. This is where I think inner gnosis or knowledge comes from.

Anyway.. only my opinion and I think you will find it is very difficult to offend me!

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one.

Universalism is EXACTLY the reason TPTB (the "church" and governments) HATE groups of free-thinkers like masons.

Freemasonry does NOT proclaim a path to salvation, but it does teach that man's duty is to fellow man and that we are a universal family under the fatherhood of God. It encourages faith, hope and charity (particularly charity) and moral behavior.

The implication is that, just like Christ, we have a temporal physical body and an immortal spiritual body.

Also, that we should not live in fear but in love. John says, "There is no fear in love"

That statement alone invalidates the majority of dogma from world religions. It implies that you don't need a government or a church to realize and spread the love of your Father. It also means that NOBODY can take that love from you.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


I'm sorry,maybe i didn't make myself clear.I was confused (and still am) as to what judeo christianity has to do with what i've said.You thought that this kind of christianity was i talking about?Because i wasn't.To be honest i fail to understand how judaism and christianity can be mixed when judaism doesn't recognise Jesus as the son of God.

I probably didn't make myself clear in my first comment,i'm sorry. (your reply didn't go in vain though since i read the whole thing )

Btw,I'm gonna log off now because i just realised how much tired i am (in my defense i wasn't expecting a conversation about it so i wasn't physicaly prepared ) I merely wanted to give a heads up about mixing religions etc.I really need to get some sleep so if any new replies will come up,know that i'll see them tomorrow.

reply to post by Oceanborn


I am sorry for any inconvenience. English is not your first language, yes, no? The internet is unforgiving in two area, translation of foreign languages, and emotions. God willing, the spirit can overcome this

Maybe you can rephrase your question? I'm thinking your original question was, is Gnosticism's the same as Christianity? Short answer, no.

The real Gnostic s, the original peoples did not need any savior or enlightenment because they saw for themselves first hand the truths of this planet. The concept of the trinity is a substitute for the original knowledge. The trinity of Christianity is "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". This concept was not present in their time because all were viewed as the Sons and daughters of God. There was no need for religion because they saw themselves as already in his realm, and this is the realm Jesus spoke of when he referred to the strong and holy generation".

With very few exceptions, they, this strong and holy generation, are the only true Gnostic's, for they are the only ones who can claim to know the truth. The only others who might be able to claim this are ones who go to visit with this generation and have seen it with their very own eyes. The Gnostic religion is a early attempt to keep the knowledge of this ancient generation alive. Once Jesus came to our realm to reteach ancient lessons Christianity was born to remember his teachings. But again, certain powers do not want the Gnostic knowledge shared with the masses and Christianity was taken over and perverted from its original message.

And so, Gnosticism was converted into the Occult teachings and only offered to the initiate who would vow the knowledge to secrecy.

And as always this is in my humble opinion and open to correction,debate, consideration.