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The Outer and the Inner Freemasons

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posted on May, 21 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I guess I expected more from you.
And what might that be? Sit down, shut up, and listen to what the machine teaches?


It's a shame your religion has done this to you.
Done what? Allowed me to use my own mind? I have no religion any longer.


The Jesus Christ I know would not peddle this kind of ignorance.
Does the Jesus you know allow countless millions to be slaughtered for profit?




posted on May, 21 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


You once offered my some kind words when I needed
it. I have always remembered that and appreciated it.

I just thought you were above the very obvious lies that exist for no other reason than to discredit something that "the church" does not agree with.

Jesus Christ is all about love and understanding. No, he does not condone slaughtering millions. Or one for that matter. Neither do I and neither does freemasonry, nor has it ever. Freemasonry is nothing more than a fraternity that teaches self enlightenment, and encourages self study into the individual spirituality of one's self. So in essence, it tries to teach me to find a way I am comfortable being closer to God. I am not sure what your thoughts are, but mine are that anything that brings me closer to God is good for me. And it's my business and has nothing to do with others.

You have Deny Ignorance on your avitar. perhaps you should try that.
edit on 21-5-2012 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


I have often wondered if the belief that angels and demons are actually extraterrestrials isn't just the evolution of religion to fit a scientific age where advance technology has replaced magic as an explanation of the unknown. It has more in common with religion than with science as there is no objective proof of that reality. I am assuming much about what your belief actually is as you have only hinted at it, but please feel free to express your belief or thoughts yourself.

In my opinion, the "ancient power" is human spirituality and moral conscience, which evolved although it seems contrary to "survival of the fittest" that would favor the cheaters.
edit on 21-5-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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You once offered my some kind words when I needed
it. I have always remembered that and appreciated it.
Your truly welcome. It is my core, my spirituality that allows me the option to hinder or help. And, when I see sincerity it should be fostered. Even though, through the years I have been attacked for my positions, believes, observations, by brothers, scientists, and clandestine operatives, I hold no ill will.


I just thought you were above the very obvious lies that exist for no other reason than to discredit something that "the church" does not agree with.
I do not "Hail" to one institution or another. My conclusions are mine and mine alone. I can honestly say I do not find your association a problem in the world, the only problem is allowing anyone who has taken a oath to public office, take another oath in secret. You can not serve two masters.


Jesus Christ is all about love and understanding. No, he does not condone slaughtering millions. Or one for that matter. Neither do I and neither does freemasonry, nor has it ever. Freemasonry is nothing more than a fraternity that teaches self enlightenment, and encourages self study into the individual spirituality of one's self. So in essence, it tries to teach me to find a way I am comfortable being closer to God. I am not sure what your thoughts are, but mine are that anything that brings me closer to God is good for me. And it's my business and has nothing to do with others.
No one can teach self enlightenment, it must come from within. This is why children are so humbling. At the youngest ages they do what comes natural, love. It is (your, the worlds) institutions that corrupt, mislead these children throughout their lives. Yes, I can understand the "ancient ones" childish mindset, but spoiled children by the institution of their day is no better.

The institutions have given us many gods in the past, but to be enlightened, is to know the true light from which it all sprang from, within yourself. It was not a institution that allowed me to see this with my own eyes, in fact, it was institutions that did everything in their power to keep me from seeing.

Which god is the one you want to align yourself with?


You have Deny Ignorance on your avitar. perhaps you should try that.
In the years I have been contributing to this board I have been corrected many time, and in deed, rightly so. And most of the time it was over me not taking a few more seconds to re-read something, or consider it a little bit longer. My avatar does not say " Deny Ignorance", it states "Defy Ignorance". Just one letter is different, but all the difference in the world.


I have often wondered if the belief that angels and demons are actually extraterrestrials isn't just the evolution of religion to fit a scientific age where advance technology has replaced magic as an explanation of the unknown.
How arrogant we are to even consider we are the first race, species, to have stumbled upon "Technology". Any evolution of religion is surely a human manifestation, as the true source has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with a persons heart. But I think your statement is slightly reversed. Originally I believe magic replaced technology and now it comes full circle. It was always about knowing the secrets of technology and applying them in a "Magical" way. The same holds true for the human psychic and the occult knowledge of mind control and manipulation.


I am assuming much about what your belief actually is as you have only hinted at it, but please feel free to express your belief or thoughts yourself.
.................


In my opinion, the "ancient power" is human spirituality and moral conscience, which evolved although it seems contrary to "survival of the fittest" that would favor the cheaters.
I would only suggest you reconsider this position.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Just because we choose to believe something is not real, does not make it unreal.

And yes, I agree, "survival of the fittest" does give the cheaters an unfair advantage.



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

Which god is the one you want to align yourself with?


You have Deny Ignorance on your avitar. perhaps you should try that.
In the years I have been contributing to this board I have been corrected many time, and in deed, rightly so. And most of the time it was over me not taking a few more seconds to re-read something, or consider it a little bit longer. My avatar does not say " Deny Ignorance", it states "Defy Ignorance". Just one letter is different, but all the difference in the world.



There is only one God as far as I am concerned. He is the same one that is called Buda, Jahova, Jesus, God, Allah, or whatever other names he is given.

To defy ignorance is much stronger. I like it much better. Now who is it that you are against here? Who has killed all the people you are talking about? And how do you know this?



posted on May, 21 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


Very well said...
And apologies for my shenanigans.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by Pinocchio
reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


Very well said...
And apologies for my shenanigans.

Thank you, humbly. No apology necessary as your "Shenanigans" are known to me. All things can be understood if only one takes the time.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


There is only one God as far as I am concerned. He is the same one that is called Buda, Jahova, Jesus, God, Allah, or whatever other names he is given.
"There is only one God as far as I am concerned.". Yes god has many names, and so too do the imposter gods. In Freemasonry you are only required to believe in one god, no matter its name, correct? But if you are truly on a path of self enlightenment would you not want to be "concerned" to the fullest that you are following the path that leads you to the true light and not be misguided by one of the imposters?


Now who is it that you are against here? Who has killed all the people you are talking about? And how do you know this?
As the Mason stated in the video, "Its complicated". And, as stated by Pinocchio "Behold My fellow Friend.... It Was/Is Simple! ". No one, The Matrix, and by a preponderance of the evidence.

What if there were no religions, no gods, and no freemasonry. What if the institutions were only a imaginary thing. Do you really believe humanity would fall apart? That was the life of the American Indians before the white man brought "Domestication" to the heathens.

What if everyone on the planet were Masons? Would you not then be in the service of all mankind? What if all of mankind became a secret society and there were no rulers? Freemasonry by its very nature divides mankind, this is the sole danger................



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
But if you are truly on a path of self enlightenment would you not want to be "concerned" to the fullest that you are following the path that leads you to the true light and not be misguided by one of the imposters?

Where would I be introduced to this imposter? I have known God all my life. I have only been a Freemason for 5 years. And in that 5 years, the only God I have talked to is the same one from my past. I hope you aren't falling for all that Lucifer garbage.




What if everyone on the planet were Masons? Would you not then be in the service of all mankind? What if all of mankind became a secret society and there were no rulers? Freemasonry by its very nature divides mankind, this is the sole danger................

this is where you loose me at. Masonry is ONE path that helps one along his way. There are many paths and some don't have anyone guiding you. Those take a special person to be able to dig for his/her own light. With masonry, I have many brothers who are willing to help point me in the direction I need should I ask.

I think you have been duped by some of the hype and lies that are spread by the ones who no nothing but hate. When they come in here spitting fire and brimstone, claiming to know all about the direction of my soul, I interact with them out of humor and pity. You have always seemed above all that. I hope I am not wrong.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I do not "Hail" to one institution or another. My conclusions are mine and mine alone. I can honestly say I do not find your association a problem in the world, the only problem is allowing anyone who has taken a oath to public office, take another oath in secret. You can not serve two masters.


Here is something I think you are confused about. Before you can condemn the oaths I took or claim a public servant is serving two master, you should understand the oaths. There are three and each one builds upon the first. They promise to keep the secrets of a trusted friend, should be bring them to you in that way. In this instance, think of a Doctor and his patient confidentiality. Same importance. We promise to help anyone in need. masons and non masons alike, if within our power to do so. Then we have some that have to do with how we deal with other masons in the lodge. Those have no bearing on the outside world. As I am sure you know, all three of our obligations can be found in their entirety online. So none of this is a secret and it's all verifiable. A pubic servant who took his masonic obligations to heart would be one of the best you could ask for. (IMHO)



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


I think God and Jesus would be disgusted at the slaughter of millions. But it's not God that's doing it.

Mankind were given free-will, whether in the allegory of Genesis or any other myth.

Free will means freedom to do evil.

If God/Jesus enforced morality we would be no more than simple animals. Where is the lesson in following blindly without a real choice?

It is incumbent upon masons (and all people) to strive to relieve the burdens of the oppressed.

I had a conversation recently about my believe in "Christian Universalism" with a fundie. The question that ALWAYS arises in this conversation is, "If we all go to heaven then what's to stop us from just stealing and murdering and doing what we want?"

My response is that if the threat of Hell is the only thing keeping you from murder then you have bigger problems than religion can solve.

Self-enlightenment is the personal realization of the interconnectedness and interdependence of all living beings. Part of that process is the very dark, very depressing long dark night of the soul where everything you've always believed is destroyed in front of you and all seems hopeless.

When the morning comes, though, the Truth is apparent. The only point in life is to end suffering. That's the lesson we are meant to learn and put into action.

Freemasonry in and of itself is not divisive. We make no distinction among ourselves as to relieving the suffering of others. We see all people as equals.

The divisiveness is driven by hate of our organization. We are hated because we turn the other cheek. We defend our brothers but we are not allowed to attack those outside the fraternity.

Don't get me wrong, Freemasonry DOES have enemies. We have, and will continue to, take up our sword to destroy intolerance, ignorance, tyranny, racism and fundamentalism.

We are easy targets because folks come on this message board and in one breath tell of the "many paths to enlightenment" while cursing us for saying the same thing.

I begrudge no one's path in life.

So, when you have found enlightenment and understand the true evil of intolerance and suffering, I hope you will come back and say, "You know what? The masons had it right all along."



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 



So, when you have found enlightenment and understand the true evil of intolerance and suffering, I hope you will come back and say, "You know what? The masons had it right all along."
you might have added "IMHO". At this point in time it is a opinion we do not share.

I have found that the Masons who visit this board are battle hardened by constantly defending the organization and quite callous to certain mindsets. I have stated my concerns rather clearly about the fraternity. I have read and read and read the pros and cons of this institution and I have come to my personal conclusion about it.

As all Americans should have the right to free associations and liberty to practice their own path to enlightenment, religion, no one institution should possess or unfairly impede another, through coercion or secrecy. The public area is just that, public, and public servants are public, not private. By its very nature a secret society member holding a public office is a conflict of interests. Even you yourselves have stated Freemasonry has its bad eggs within it and those who seem to just disappear. Because of the interlocking loyalties within Masonry it would be 10 times as difficult to remove a bad egg from a public office.

Personally, and in defense of the organization, some of the best people I have known have been Masons, but, in reality, this is not a reflection on Freemasonry, it is a reflection of the individual. You may have your Fraternity, but you are unfit for public office for the reasons I have stated. And that goes for any other group who also take a oath to other powers, or who through religious prayers disavowed an oath to a public office.

IMHO, the matrix is a Onion. Each skin of the onion has a name. Division, chaos, politics, institutions, etc. Each skin is next to and interacts with the skins around it. But all are bound by a single purpose, and that is to conceal the truth of mankind and of this planet, solar system.

Freemasonry has its skin as well. It is true Freemasons view themselves as a positive force in the world but even in a weak moment they admit not all members are shining examples of the doctrines that are taught. This causes their skin to become even more thick and callous, going on to cause more friction and tension. And IMHO, this is the true reason for the institution to exist. Division. This they have in common with all other institutions. Freemasonry is not the MATRIX, only a part.

There are other skins that do other things, like the 322, Skull & Bones. These are the ones who literally believe they are gods on earth and take their rights from the bible. "genesis 3:22 and the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:". Also another group that has no place in public service.

What is at the center of the onion? True enlightenment, and it belongs to all of mankind! It is their birth rite.

Now Gentlemen, I know we have our differing opinions, and I am not one of you in terms of association, but we are all Human beings, and we all have the very same spirit that can reside within us. Look to that center and see what I see. This is all I ask.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

What is at the center of the onion? True enlightenment, and it belongs to all of mankind! It is their birth rite.

Now Gentlemen, I know we have our differing opinions, and I am not one of you in terms of association, but we are all Human beings, and we all have the very same spirit that can reside within us. Look to that center and see what I see. This is all I ask.




I agree with you on this. And I am glad to see this as opposed to the earlier post.
Have a nice day.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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When I saw this thread title I knew I had to comment. There is great truth in the portion of the EA degree initiatic ritual that says,

SD: "And how were you received?"

EA: "Upon the point of a floppy Oscar Meyer presented to my bare navel which was to teach me that wieners are yummy and my navel is an innie and thus better than the cowan's and eavesdroppers' outie."

Oh wait.....I'm embarrassed. I thought the title of the thread was The Outie and Innie Freemasons. My mistake.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


A very thoughtful and respectful reply. I appreciate the points you bring up.

I don't know if you are in the UK or US, but it's my understanding that politics and Freemasonry are much more controversial overseas. I've not heard many complaints in the US, at least in the last few decades, but I do read a lot of posts suspicious of Freemasonry in the UK and I'm not sure why/how.

Your point about the individual is well-taken. I also appreciate the onion/matrix analogy.

It is perhaps the ultimate Catch-22. You have to take the pill to see how far the rabbit hole goes, but then there is no turning back.

Personally, I'm hoping it resembles the Playboy mansion a bit.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by AdesteFideles
When I saw this thread title I knew I had to comment. There is great truth in the portion of the EA degree initiatic ritual that says,

SD: "And how were you received?"

EA: "Upon the point of a floppy Oscar Meyer presented to my bare navel which was to teach me that wieners are yummy and my navel is an innie and thus better than the cowan's and eavesdroppers' outie."

Oh wait.....I'm embarrassed. I thought the title of the thread was The Outie and Innie Freemasons. My mistake.





AND THIS is the problem with modern Freemasonry.

Back in MY day the frankfurter was presented elsewhere.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1

Originally posted by AdesteFideles
When I saw this thread title I knew I had to comment. There is great truth in the portion of the EA degree initiatic ritual that says,

SD: "And how were you received?"

EA: "Upon the point of a floppy Oscar Meyer presented to my bare navel which was to teach me that wieners are yummy and my navel is an innie and thus better than the cowan's and eavesdroppers' outie."

Oh wait.....I'm embarrassed. I thought the title of the thread was The Outie and Innie Freemasons. My mistake.





AND THIS is the problem with modern Freemasonry.

Back in MY day the frankfurter was presented elsewhere.


Veiled in allegory, illustrated by symbols.



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


EMSED! Your going to scare away potential candidates if you give away secrets like that, Bro.

Does any one have a problem with goats?



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by emsed1
 


EMSED! Your going to scare away potential candidates if you give away secrets like that, Bro.

Does any one have a problem with goats?


I simply meant we enjoyed hot dogs after the degree?

I don't know what you guys mean?



posted on May, 22 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


You have a nice day, too




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