"So Then Who in the Hell Are We?"

[Torture] “is not the norm.”
-- Mike Pannek, Abu Ghraib prison warden.

“This is not who we are.”
-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on the US massacre of 16 Afghan villagers.

“This is not who we are.”
-- General John Allen, commander of forces in Afghanistan, on Koran burning

“This is not who we are.”
-- Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta on troops posing with enemy body parts

“This is not who we are.”
-- Secretary of State Clinton, also on troops posing with enemy body parts

Spying by the New York Police on Muslims in Newark, NJ, which the Newark Police Chief was alerted to, is “not who we are”
-- Newark Mayor Cory Booker

“I can tell you something all of you know already - that using pepper spray on peaceful protesters runs counter to our values. It does not reflect well on this university and it absolutely is not who we are.”
-- UC Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi, who ordered campus police to use force to clear peaceful student occupiers from the campus, leading to pepper spraying of students

Ripping families apart by deporting the undocumented parents of American-born children is “not who we are.”
-- President Barack Obama

“This larger notion that the only thing we can do to restore prosperity is just dismantle government, refund everybody's money, and let everyone write their own rules, and tell everyone they're on their own -- that's not who we are.”
-- President Barack Obama

“You can't say, well, we developed trade and the economic relations first and the disregard of human rights. That's not who we are. We are the United States of America.”
-- Sasha Gong, director of the China branch of Voice of America

The latest PR catch phrase from business, administration, military, state and local officials after some atrocity or other is that whatever happened, it is certainly “not who we are,” a phrase appropriately initially uttered by the Vietnam War commander, Gen. William Westmoreland, with reference to the My Lai slaughter of 400 women, children and old men, all civilians, by a group of US soldiers.

Yet if all these abominations are not “who we are,” then why do our business, police and military and government institutions generate so many examples of obscene, horrific or criminal behavior?

...It is time to stop pretending that we are not also accountable. It is time to end militarism at home and abroad and to put people before profits. It won't be the militarists and the profiteers who make such changes, though. It can only be us.

www.thiscantbehappening.net...

Pretty compelling question.

If, as a society, we are the sum of all of our parts then an injustice to anyone is an injustice to everyone. We can only be judged by our actions and not our intentions. We have allowed this to happen. This IS who we are, who we have become.

Now what are we going to do about it?

More trite sound bites from our leaders after the next atrocity? OR can we come together with a better vision for America going forward? Can we at least agree on a lowest common denominator - a line which we will not cross? We need to define some founding principles for real change or at least recommit to our founding ideals.

We need to wake from this nightmare. " We, the people", do have the power. We have allowed these sorts of things to happen and, together, we can make it stop.

Sorry, I think your focus is too narrow. The same analysis should be applied to Muslim individuals who cross the line, OWS'ers, Nazis, etc.

You seem to be asking the question "What provision does a group have for setting limits and punishing those who step outside of them?" I think America does relatively well with clear standards, and social, economic, and even criminal sanctions. The groups I've mentioned do not seem to be able to set standards or effectively discipline their members. (And I'm sure there are others.)

reply to post by charles1952


Well I tend to think you are missing the point.

When brutality becomes the norm, we can no longer say "This is not who we are."

It matters not about Nazi's or whatever (not sure of your point there...LOL!) - this is the USA and we used to aspire to greatness. Now we wallow in corruption.

reply to post by KillerQueen

We are big dumb monkeys who think we know something about anything when truthfully all we really know is nothing.

reply to post by KillerQueen

Dear KillerQueen,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. You may very well be right that I'm missing the point, allow me to try again, then you can straighten me out as necessary.

When brutality becomes the norm, we can no longer say "This is not who we are."

I agree completely that your conclusion follows logically, except I don't accept the premise that brutality is the norm in the United States. In a group of over 310 million people, in war time or in political rhetoric, there is going to be some "brutality," but the norm, the average behavior of Americans? I just can't agree.

Besides, if brutality was the norm in America, it wouldn't get the media attention or discussion that it does. Posing with dead body parts was covered in the press because it was unusual. Do we see press coverage of a Middle Eastern woman being beat with a stick for gosipping? No, because it happens all the time. How about covering an OWSer who spits in the general direction of a cop? No, because we've come to expect it.

this is the USA and we used to aspire to greatness. Now we wallow in corruption.

I think I would have an easier time accepting the argument that Americans are corrupt than the argument that they are brutal. I agree with you, we used to, and still should, aspire to decency, morality, and greatness.

How do we do this? By setting clear limits on unacceptable behavior and affixing punishment for transgressing those limits. I think the US does this better than many groups. We should be the best, but we're not. But we are not even close to the worst. That gives me hope.

With respect,
Charles1952

Sort of. Most people don't feel courageous enough to risk losing their children to luciferean often, foster homes, have their houses taken from them and jobs, to make huge waves.

The real karma is truly on TPTB. They play this as a game believing they are off the hook and that Hitler got far less karma than anyone carrying out the orders. They think they're off the hook and their job is to tortue people nonstop making their lives be destroyed to choose good, AND/OR, that they haven't woken up through the 10 000 million tons of programming and lives to activate their super soul skills so they arent souls but fodder somehow.

They dont understand God/Goodness/Love and believe Evil is on high too. And they think God/Goodness/Family smiles at cheating and being a stumbling block for others.

This is what I can gather from everything they do and from what a few have said.

They are so distorted and far from the truth.

The pit you dig for ohters you fall in.

The greatest of all is the least of all.

No cheaters prosper.

They need to read Isaiah 28.

And people's voices are not listened to. The protest signs are BLANK in the mural signifying nothing we do matters to them.

vigilantcitizen.com...

They hold the massive control, armies.

Do bear in mind, the people elected Obama to get the US out of the war, and for health care?

What came through on that?

I don't blame people AT ALL. Not any ordinary people.