Injured knuckles on Travon Martin in autopsy report!!!

The amount of drugs in TM's body count for nothing. That's simply a clinical finding level, not a functional level finding.

GZ doesn't look to me like he's got two black eyes and a broken nose in those pics. I think someone's cooking up a pot of BS stew.

Man, I got battered more than GZ by playing outside as a kid. I don't think my elbows or knees had skin for years. If those wounds on GZ are sufficient to produce fear for one's mortality in a full-grown man, I think people really need to get out more. Like, a lot more.

It's amazing how a lot of people on here think. Many were quick to jump at Zimmerman's throat without any shred of evidence, yet when evidence presents itself, many on here go in to denial. The only BS is what the media spun and what many of you so called "open minded" individuals fell for.

I suspected from the start that Zimmerman was and is innocent and this was none other than another spin by the media, possibly to serve as a distraction, possibly to serve the government to clamp down on the amount of guns that must be in circulation in the US for futre civil unrest if the coutnry goes down the pan. The whole point is, if Zimmerman had cold bloodedly killed Travon Martin, he would've sustained no injuries. The fact that he did, tells me that the evidence is now mounting to support Zimmerman. A witness has apparently also said that they saw Travon Martin on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman shouting for help.

What I find unreal is how people on here, of all places, fall for the media BS!

They make their top story, they put a 6 year old picture of Travon up to envoke emotion when in fact this picture has no resemblance to the Travon Martin of today. This then fuels the usually emotional response fram many blacks across America. Are you people living in a dreamworld? I reserved opinion until I saw the evidence that was being laid on the table, because that's what I do in my day job and that's what all should do rather than jumping up and down for absoulutely no reason at all.

Zimemrman is innocent, all the rubbish was media influence, the FBI calling to may be charge Zimmerman with a hate crime simply because he was following Travon Martin who Zimmerman believed was acting suspiciously, right or wrong, how on Earth does that constitute as a hate crime? Has America really gone this far down the drain? We had this here in the UK, where if a white person got in to a fight with a non-white person, the white person could be charged for racially aggrevated assault even if he didn't initiate the altercation, but not the other way around! Funny enough, it went out the window when Labour left power, but America is still clinging to this BS? And you people are still buying it? Incredible!

Don't let your own beliefs and ideals sway you from the truth.

reply to post by SecretFace


You're missing one vital factor in all this: Trayvon Martin is dead through no misconduct on his part. He was walking in the rain, unarmed and with no malicious intent. Any perceptions of such were completely and wrongly fabricated in George Zimmerman's head. What happened was not Martin's fault in any way. If you want to exonerate Zimmerman, show Martin's guilt. If you can't do that, Martin's death is unjustified and done entirely by Zimmerman's civil misconduct with the root of that being racial profiling.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by SecretFace

 

You're missing one vital factor in all this: Trayvon Martin is dead through no misconduct on his part. He was walking in the rain, unarmed and with no malicious intent. Any perceptions of such were completely and wrongly fabricated in George Zimmerman's head. What happened was not Martin's fault in any way. If you want to exonerate Zimmerman, show Martin's guilt. If you can't do that, Martin's death is unjustified and done entirely by Zimmerman's civil misconduct with the root of that being racial profiling.

How do you know there was no malicious intent? You have to deal with the facts and what you are suggesting is nothing more than opinion. The fact is Zimmerman sustained injuries, that Martin attacked Zimmerman which can be substantiated through witness reports, Martin therefore is guilty of attacking Zimmerman. Whether it was because Zimemrman was following him or not, does not justify him attacking Zimmerman.

At what point the shot went off I don't know, but from what I've read the shot went off moments after martin was reportedly on top of Zimemrman punching him. Now you tell me, how do you react to that? If Zimmerman was an armed cold blooded killer who just didn't like blacks, why did he not shoot him as soon as Martin approached him? The point is, the shot went off after Martin attacked Zimmerman, if Zimmerman was fighting to get Martin off, that's when the gun went off, then how can you charge the guy with murder? Even if Zimmerman grabbed the gun and shot at Martin, he was being attacked, this has been verified by witness statements, so again doesn't the state law allow a person to defend themselves if their life is threatened?

The story was pitched by the media as Zimmerman walking up to Martin and shooting him dead, if that was the case then Zimmerman should be guilty on all counts, but this is not the case. The media, whether you want to admit it or not, have lied and many on here have fallen for it. Zimmerman said that he was being attacked that Martin was on top of him punching him, witnesses verified this, from this I believe based on this evidence under state law that he is innocent.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


If there was no malicious intent, why Martin initiated physical confrontation first? That was a gross misconduct.

reply to post by Maslo


If you had someone following you in a car for four minutes and then chasing you around once you ran, what would you do? As a minority kid in a neighborhood that isn't yours, what do you really think was going through his head? Fear for his life, maybe? Looks like he was right too. What made him lash out at Zimmerman? What did Zimmerman say or do to make him feel that his life was that severely threatened? If you think Zimmerman was defending himself, why was Martin then not?

reply to post by SecretFace


Zimmerman's face was not one of being brutally attacked. Plus he was told specifically NOT to confront Martin.

I find it so very interesting that so many are coming to the conclusion that Zimmerman is not guilty of any wrongdoing. Clearly the guy was confrontational and caused panic in Martin. Rightly so on Martin's part! I know that even as a woman, I would be very concerned if I had some guy following me for four minutes in a car while I walked in the rain in a neighborhood that was not my own. I would probably panic at some point too.

What did Zimmerman really expect to happen? Did he think he didn't put the fear of God into that kid and that there would be no effect? Jeez, people. Have some compassion for the poor kid.

reply to post by beatbox


Thats the reason we have laws you cant allow emotions to run prosecutions.Just because we all agree it shouldnt have happened doesnt mean it didnt happen.So you follow the laws if zimmerman was attacked which at least for now the evidence supports then the law says he has a right to defend himself.Bringing emotion into it does nothing but cloud the issue.Do i have empathy to the family of course who doesnt but does that change the facts no it doesnt.

Originally posted by paganini

Originally posted by Romekje
reply to post by paganini

 

It's not an instruction, it's a request.

Next to that emergency service operators have NO authority! They give ADVICE and act as a gateway, that's it!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand again given that George had no place doing what he was doing he should have heeded the advice of someone that knows how to conduct oneself in an emergency or potentially dangerous situation

You guys making excuses haven't a leg to stand on

edit on 17-5-2012 by paganini because: (no reason given)

I don't "make excuses without legs to stand on" I'm just stating things as they are.

I state a fact, you state an opinion, since opinions are always personal and facts are, well, facts, who lost his legs again?

He had all the business in the world to do what he was doing being on neighborhood watch and all..

He COULD (and probably should) have followed the advice but chose not to, which is his right.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by beatbox

 

Thats the reason we have laws you cant allow emotions to run prosecutions.Just because we all agree it shouldnt have happened doesnt mean it didnt happen.So you follow the laws if zimmerman was attacked which at least for now the evidence supports then the law says he has a right to defend himself.Bringing emotion into it does nothing but cloud the issue.Do i have empathy to the family of course who doesnt but does that change the facts no it doesnt.

Another lengthy response but still no answer to the question?

Originally posted by AaronWilson
reply to post by Starchild23

 

No. I never plan too. If I ever lived in a place where a "scrap" lands you dead, I dont know what I would do. The worst Ive seen is someone getting stabbed because the guy was getting his ass handed to him, suffice to say, the guy with the never lost two of his finger that night.

Fighting is normal. Men fight, well, we used to. Hand to hand is a way to let steam off. Should never, EVER result in a further eselation of violence.

Yeah but people are little wussies nowadays... They are so afraid for their lives and so insecure about their reputation, that they can't just fight, shake hands and go have a beer afterwards... No, they have to kill anyone who they have a conflict with. There are some areas and some groups of people where some of the old ways still hold. Funny think is, these kids don't know what they're missing out on. Great friendships have started with a fight. Not to mention the stress that builds up because you can't release it unless you're willing to go all the way with it and kill someone or be killed. So eventually kids snap... Shoot up the school, commit suicide, get hooked on drugs, or some other horrible atrocity. I blame the gangster rap culture, which was forced into our society by racism and police/political corruption mostly, for glamorizing the idea of packing a gun and blowing anyone's head off who disagrees with you about anything. Kids were fooled into thinking this is power. It is not power. It is a weakness. It is fear. It does not help you to find a pathway that is conducive to your development. It does not help you solve problems. It's a fake shortcut that leaves you behind the others in the world who had to learn the hard way how to solve problems and so gained much knowledge along the way. The gun becomes a crutch because nobody respects you without it. It becomes all you know. And eventually you realize people didn't respect you. They feared and despised you and once they get a chance to take you down a notch, or take you outta the game completely, they will...

reply to post by CosmicEgg

If you had someone following you in a car for four minutes and then chasing you around once you ran, what would you do?

Run to my home as fast as I can. CERTAINLY not turn around and physically attack the follower (especially after he already stopped following me).

As a minority kid in a neighborhood that isn't yours, what do you really think was going through his head? Fear for his life, maybe?

I dont know, but probably no fear for his life, since in such case he would not go towards the danger, but run away from it.

What made him lash out at Zimmerman? What did Zimmerman say or do to make him feel that his life was that severely threatened? If you think Zimmerman was defending himself, why was Martin then not?

According to available evidence, its far more probable that Martin physically threatened Zimmerman first, not the other way around.

Martin was not defending himself because he did not tried to avoid the confrontation, but instead attacked first, even though he was not directly threatened at the moment (Zimmerman pulled out the gun only after he was being beaten).

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
You're missing one vital factor in all this: Trayvon Martin is dead through no misconduct on his part.

You're missing one vital factor in all this: WE DO NOT KNOW what his actions were.
Did he jump Zimmerman or was he jumped by Zimmerman? We do not know.
The injuries sustained by Zimmerman point to Martin doing the jumping on.
If he jumped Zimmerman then it was his own misconduct that caused his death.
If he didn't, then it was Zimmerman who caused Martins death.

It will all come down to the altercation. Who started it. Why they started it. Did Zimmerman or Martin? Martin did not have a right to jump Zimmerman simply because Zimmerman questioned why Martin was there. However, if Zimmerman was chasing Martin, then Martin had a right to defend himself. It all comes down to that.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It seems to me that if Zimmerman had just kept his distance and let the police arrive and do something about it (particularly as no crime of any description had been witnessed nor even suspected), all of it could have been avoided. That, if anything, is the beginning of the whole affair. That's the original sin here. Zimmerman just couldn't control himself. Whatever was going through his head was wrong. If he had just sat back and watched at a respectful distance, Martin would have gone home and he could have been reached by the police if there were sufficient reason. There was none. So at the end of the day, Zimmerman had no cause for any single action he took. As the adult of the two in question, he was dead wrong. Martin is just dead.

reply to post by haven123


haha i just noticed the neck of zimmermans jacket says "free country". free to be persecuted without a fair trial

reply to post by TKDRL


Why are you too scared to fight for your life?

reply to post by Evanzsayz

IF I had to, I would. Do you try to bang in nails with your hands and skull before you try a hammer? That would make you a fool. If someone is on top of me beating me, when I am carrying, there is gonna be six men carrying the dumbass who attacked me. I am not going to try to fist fight first, that is stupid, I carry so I don't have to. Why should anyone risk serious injury, to spare the life of some idiot who thinks it's fine and dandy to assault people?

Ask a cop what they would do if a guy was on top of them beating them.... They would shoot them, and cops don't have some special priveledge to defend their life that the rest of us don't have.

If you choose to stay unarmed, that is your choice. It is also my choice to not be, and I will kill someone threatening my life or my family's life. If you think it is smarter to try and fend off an attacker with your hands, that is your choice. You can have fun thinking you are superman, able to beat off all attackers with single punches or whatever. Your choice. I would rather use a tool that makes it easier.

reply to post by haven123


if zimmerman would have been a real cop he would have been one of those over zealous, self-rightous super cops that would beat a homeless guy to death..

reply to post by SecretFace


If martin would have had a gun, zimmerman would be dead with the exact same defense. Zimmerman started the altercation .Zimmerman was acting in a threatening manner, playing Pretend Super Cop games and got ambushed by martin.
Trevon Martin was the one acting in self-defense. I am 100% for the 2nd Amendment and Floridasgun laws but zimmerman is not innocent..