Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual

reply to post by NOTurTypical

This is not hasty generalization fallacy.
Take a look at the reasons that those who say they are Christians use religion as a weapon against homosexuals, and you will see that the case is always the same: They pick the laws from the old testament of the bible, namely Leviticus, to justify their belief, yet ignore the rest of the laws in the Old Testament. They do not see that there are more laws than just a few there, and yet when confronted with that fact they tend to get upset. And it is not just a few people, nor is this a bash Christians, while everyone else gets a free pass. This is pointing out the problems with an old belief, that even today some of the greatest spiritual minds are stumped as to how the various beliefs are able to handle if not guide people with problems that are not really mentioned in the bible.

The reality is that most of the Judaic religions are full of contradictions and hypocrisy, in their belief and use of religion to justify the actions on a whole. Before the whole gay issue, there were times when religion was used to justify a whole range of behaviors in society that many of us today abhorred and tend to react negatively to. Slavery is one such idea and practice, where the bible was used to justify the keeping and enslaving a people against their will, all cause it was mentioned in the bible, but a few saw that this was not the way and started to work on ending this horrible practice. Every time there is something new or that challenges what would be considered the social norm, religion takes a stance and will use the holy writings as either justification for or against such. And history is loaded with examples of where religion was used as a weapon, rather than something to be inclusive. It goes far back in time, to even before the time of Christ, and continued to this very day. The question is when does the cycle stop and people use religion as something to include others in, rather than as a weapon.

Christianity is so judgmental and filled with hypocrisy. On one side they say love one another on the other side they're the first to condemn someone.

I grew up attending a parochial school, and was an alter boy. What I've seen during those years changed my belief in religion. While the leaders of Christianity condemn their congregation, they live beyond their means, they feast daily while some of their poor church congregation worry about where their next meal is going to come from, and some of these leaders are just plain wicked. They hold out their hand for church donations and at the same time have enough money to own big cars, boats and cottages. They have volunteers who cook their meals daily and clean their living quarters. How many of these christian leaders lead a secret life of sin? We've all seen them cry when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and they beg for forgiveness.

No, I just lead my life as best I could without being labeled as a christian. I just need one simple rule to follow and not pages of what I should or should not do... "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." If you can do that, you're good in my book.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Dear SaturnFX,

Killing the messenger does not resolve the problem the christian church has here. Not this time.

I did not "kill the messenger", in fact if you go back and read what I wrote I said people should leave those churches. I see no problem other than the fact that people seem to prefer to go to churches that teach bad theology. When Jesus said to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself he summed up what believers are supposed to think, if they do not love their neighbor then they are not doing Jesus' will. People are leaving the church because the church has stopped preaching a message of hope and freedom and instead spend too much time focused on social issues rather than spiritual ones. They are too focused on what people should not be doing rather than what they should be doing. If I correct them for their bigotry, I must also address yours. You should not lump us all together just because you hate religion nor ignore the atheists that are anti-gay. Treat people as themselves and not as you wish to group them all together if you wish to be fair.

reply to post by AQuestion


So, what is the solution then?

Christianity has a incredibly horrible image problem.
Telling people to stop going to churches of intolerance does little...
being quiet when others are shouting their head off harms christianity as a whole..

Perhaps any christians that want a few new people in the future may want to, oh, I don't know...start pushing back against the loudest people with an equal loud voice showing tolerance and the like?

being quiet during injustice is just as bad as participating, no?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by AQuestion

 

So, what is the solution then?

Christianity has a incredibly horrible image problem.
Telling people to stop going to churches of intolerance does little...
being quiet when others are shouting their head off harms christianity as a whole..

Perhaps any christians that want a few new people in the future may want to, oh, I don't know...start pushing back against the loudest people with an equal loud voice showing tolerance and the like?

being quiet during injustice is just as bad as participating, no?

Dear SaturnFX,

Again, I made my position clear, I didn't hide from what other Christians might think. Your argument is baiting because you only discuss one group that is primarily anti-gay. Guess what, it was illegal in Communist China until 1997 (and they still crack down on them) and in Soviet Russia and those were atheistic and communistic. 70% of the people in Communist China are still against homosexuality. Your issue is not homosexuality, it is Christianity and your argument and tone are baiting. You don't care about gays or you would care about how they are treated by all groups and not try and blame it on just one. If we live in a world where most people find homosexuality problematical, don't you think most groups (social, religious and business) will be filled with people who find it so?

I find your solution even worse. You think people should change their beliefs so that they can draw followers. They should lie about what they believe to please society. You are promoting a herd response rather than a thought out one. I disagree with people who follow bad theology all the time; but, based on their beliefs and not on what will make them popular.

The OP in one word:

Actually, that would be too easy.

I like this thread... it's simple and to the point.

Christianity in one word: Pro-God....

who loved the world so much that He sent His only Son to die - to go to hell for our sins and pay OUR punishment, so we don't have to.

Jesus is God. How do I know? Because God required a PERFECT sacrifice, and only God is perfect.

----------------------------------------
By the way,.... I'm sure that Islam would embrace homosexuality.... yes?

So if there was a Christian named Christian would that make him a homosexual?

Originally posted by AQuestion
Your argument is baiting because you only discuss one group that is primarily anti-gay. Guess what, it was illegal in Communist China until 1997 (and they still crack down on them) and in Soviet Russia and those were atheistic and communistic. 70% of the people in Communist China are still against homosexuality. Your issue is not homosexuality, it is Christianity and your argument and tone are baiting. You don't care about gays or you would care about how they are treated by all groups and not try and blame it on just one.

Mostly because I do not live in communist china pre 1997 or the USSR. I am currently in the united states in the year 2012...the issue is the destruction of religion by an entire generation due to the loud mouth bigoted hate mongers and their quiet followers whom look the other way verses openly and loudly challenge them.

I find your solution even worse. You think people should change their beliefs so that they can draw followers.

Oh no..not at all. I encourage religions to stick to their guns on this one
Then again, I desire a religious free west. So them changing their beliefs to resemble something loving and tolerant would go against my personal preference.
I want this scam called religion to die so we can move on from this nonsense...put personal spirituality in its place, and reject dogma about how a deity hates traits and such.

Originally posted by The Old American
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Yep, I'm afraid so. Because you're Christian, you are required to hate gays. Sorry to break it to you, but facts don't lie.

/TOA

You are being sarcastic right? Christians are not to judge anyone lest they be judged as they judged the one they judged. You are supposed to love everyone. You do not force your faith on someone. If they are interested they will come in their own sweet time. Calling all Christians anti gay is like calling all public officials crooked. Its like saying all soldiers are baby killers. Its intellectually dishonest in short.

It's a bit tough to say that Christianity is primarily anti-homosexual. A religion whose early prototypes of the saintly life required the renunciation of heterosexual relations, with men living in monasteries and women living in convents, can hardly be anti-homosexual at heart.

However, Christianity has been guilt-driven. It thrives on guilt ... and fear of hell. If you love Jesus the right way then you'll get a complete free pass from hell no matter what your sins. But it has to be "the right way" and maybe yours isn't yet right enough.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by AQuestion
Your argument is baiting because you only discuss one group that is primarily anti-gay. Guess what, it was illegal in Communist China until 1997 (and they still crack down on them) and in Soviet Russia and those were atheistic and communistic. 70% of the people in Communist China are still against homosexuality. Your issue is not homosexuality, it is Christianity and your argument and tone are baiting. You don't care about gays or you would care about how they are treated by all groups and not try and blame it on just one.

Mostly because I do not live in communist china pre 1997 or the USSR. I am currently in the united states in the year 2012...the issue is the destruction of religion by an entire generation due to the loud mouth bigoted hate mongers and their quiet followers whom look the other way verses openly and loudly challenge them.

I find your solution even worse. You think people should change their beliefs so that they can draw followers.

Oh no..not at all. I encourage religions to stick to their guns on this one
Then again, I desire a religious free west. So them changing their beliefs to resemble something loving and tolerant would go against my personal preference.
I want this scam called religion to die so we can move on from this nonsense...put personal spirituality in its place, and reject dogma about how a deity hates traits and such.

Dear SaturnFX,

Yes, you don't care about homosexuals in other countries because you don't live there and that is the point I was making. You don't care about homosexuals, you hate religion. If you are going to debate religion at least debate good theology and not some straw man. Your statement that you would prefer churches to be anti-gay so that they will die off is truly cynical and sad. Why would you want anyone to not learn to be loving? You want religious people to be anti-gay so that religion will end and not because you care about homosexuals. You use gays to push an atheistic viewpoint. That is worse then just hating them because of ignorance, you actively promote hate to achieve a goal that has nothing to do with gays. You do not promote understanding, you promote hatred, that makes you no different then the ones you attack.

Two huge problems with this study and this thread.

First the very nature of the question asked in the study lends itself to stereo type responses. How can anyone describe a complex religion such as Christianity with one singular response. The result of the study really just shows how successful they have been at implanting this idea into our impressionable youth. It is conditioning, mass conditioning of our population to marginalize and dismiss an entire group of people based on the transgressions of a few.

Sure, Christianity defines the lifestyle of homosexuals as being Immoral. But it says the same about the drunkard, or the heterosexual who sleeps around, or the crooked business man, a thief, a murderer... ect ect. My point is, that it is a VERY, VERY rare occasion that any Christian attempts to single out homesexuals and Push our beliefs or morals on them.. Now of course this does happen occasionally but it is the exception.. not the norm.

It is much more common that the homosexual agenda is being PUSHED on Christians or that Christians are forced into addressing the issue. I am such an example here. I am a Christian, I would NEVER initiate a post on this website having ANYTHING at all to do with homosexuality. I am only compelled to respond when I see the blatant fear mongering and marginalization of my religion with no Reason behind your outlandish statements.

It is important to note that not all who call themselves "Christian" are indeed followers of Christ. You can sit there and cite whatever atrocities you want that have been committed by self proclaimed Christians. They are sinners who are sinning and their behavior or speech would not be condoned by Christ nor by anyone who truly follows Him. Those Sinners will be condemned in their sin if they do not Repent and turn from their wicked ways.

And This is indeed the goal of All true Christians, it is to see people repent and turn away from Immoral activity. We must point out the sin to save the Sinner. Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not. True Christianity is seeking to Save the homosexual, not to Condemn him.

on a side note... do you realize how wrong it would be to Call all Black people Violent Criminals simply because they make up the highest percentage of convicted criminals in prison.

Or How wrong it would be to call All Muslim people radical terrorists.
Or how wrong it would be to call all Liberal people socialist
Or how wrong it would be to call all White people racist
Or how wrong it would be to call all Christians homophobic...

Stereo typing is unintelligent, unimpressive, and unproductive... please rethink the position...

Soul

Nobody likes homosexuals dont blame just the bible.....

reply to post by SoulReaper


Its common practice for psychologists to do word association to gauge where a person is in relation to a subject

such as, give me a single word that fits: mother, your career, people, friends, death
a person responding with: comfort, challenging, fun, helpful, scary probably has a good outlook on life,
whereas the same question resulting in: hate, fail, shunned, leech, quiet. may be having some big issues.

word associations is actually a clear indicator towards a overall feel. People don't have complex thoughts about most things..they have a general feeling which quite often can be summed up in a single word if demanded

When I consider things in my life, although I have complicated views on many, many things, I could be pressed into giving a single word that represents my thoughts on a whole host of things.

The church has their work cut out for them, else be little more than a footnote in western history books about what the people did in the "olden days"...religion, right next to the hoola hoop and flappers.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Perhaps you are un aware that the concept of problems towards homosexuality was written in Hebrew text well before Christianity came to the fore.

Can you not do better as a shadow Christian Basher? Anti Christianite.



Homosexuality in the Hebrew Bible - Wikipedia, the free ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_Hebrew_Bible - Similarto Homosexuality in the Hebrew Bible - Wikipedia, the free ...

The Hebrew Bible refers to certain male homosexual acts in some instances. The most harsh condemnation of male homosexuality - specifically, ...

These chapters of Leviticus form part of the Holiness code. Leviticus 18:22 says:

“ Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination. ”

and Leviticus 20:13 states:

“ If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. ”

It is widely argued that the things condemned in these chapters are "deemed wrong not simply because pagan Canaanites indulged in them, but because God has pronounced them wrong as such."[11] (Hilborn 2002, p. 4; cf. Issues in human sexuality, para. 2.11; Amsel). This was also the interpretation taken in the rabbinic interpretations in the Mishnah and Talmud,[12] which also extended this to include female homosexual relations, although there are no explicit references in the Hebrew Bible to this.




"As men, being unable to bear discreetly a satiety of these things, get restive like cattle, and become stiff-necked, and discard the laws of nature, pursuing a great and intemperate indulgence of gluttony, and drinking, and unlawful connections; for not only did they go mad after other women, and defile the marriage bed of others, but also those who were men lusted after one another, doing unseemly things, and not regarding or respecting their common nature, and though eager for children, they were convicted by having only an abortive offspring; but the conviction produced no advantage, since they were overcome by violent desire; and so by degrees, the men became accustomed to be treated like women, and in this way engendered among themselves the disease of females, and intolerable evil; for they not only, as to effeminacy and delicacy, became like women in their persons, but they also made their souls most ignoble, corrupting in this way the whole race of men, as far as depended on them" (133-35; ET Jonge 422-23).[7]

All very interesting, just some general thoughts on the issue:

I must say that US evangelical-style Christianity has made some errors in a sustained narrative of homophobia and heterosexism since it came into mass culture alongside the sexual revolution and the growing gay movement in the late 1960s (and it's probably no accident that the the two were intertwined, just as more traditional churches kept a guarded silence or became liberal).

One reason, for example that ISKCON appealed to me when I was younger is because it seemed to have no special hell for gay people.
They just said that all illicit sex is against the "regulative principles" (but so was gambling, eating meat and intoxication).
However, having a lot more information via the Internet nowadays they were probably just as homophobic, and also had scandals with child-abuse.
So the more I actually read on other faiths, the nicer Christianity suddenly seems.

Protestant Christianity also has no single control, so churches can vary, and individuals can vary.
A lot of them might not see being gay as the best life in their scheme of things, but I know some of them are also unhappy with how politics have framed the debate.

Having a Mormon pontificate on Christian marriage would probably have been unheard of in my youth.
They weren't even regarded as Christian.

But then I wonder, what would one expect Christians to do and say?
What do people want?
It's their right to choose a faith.
It's also not universally unpopular to be "fundamental" on certain issues - many Africanist traditionalists hugely support such politically incorrect stances against former colonial churches that have now gone "liberal" on patriarchy. Here things like witch-hunts, exorcisms and homophobic violence become very real dangers. There's also a lot of agency and activism, and even some Christians and native traditionalists opposing homophobia.
I don't think US Christianity is only speaking to America, but also to vast markets in countries that never had a sexual revolution, and don't see modern social change on sexuality as an advantage.
Coming from colonialist or Marxist rule with entrenched moralities, they see these issues as a threat.
But once again, it depends on who you ask and what you ask.

I sometimes think bad and violently homophobic people will be like that without religion, for whatever psychological reasons.

If people believe that homosexuality is wrong then let them.
Just don't make it a pseudoscience that can hurt people, because there's also no proof for anti-gay science and therapies.
And don't say gays are all promiscuous when we've been excluded from Western forms of marriage.
That's such an unfair comparison.
Surely more inherent goodness can be drawn from heterosexual monogamy than simply making the "homosexual other" its entrenched opposite narrative?

"As men, being unable to bear discreetly a satiety of these things, get restive like cattle, and become stiff-necked, and discard the laws of nature, pursuing a great and intemperate indulgence of gluttony, and drinking, and unlawful connections; for not only did they go mad after other women, and defile the marriage bed of others, but also those who were men lusted after one another, doing unseemly things, and not regarding or respecting their common nature, and though eager for children, they were convicted by having only an abortive offspring; but the conviction produced no advantage, since they were overcome by violent desire; and so by degrees, the men became accustomed to be treated like women, and in this way engendered among themselves the disease of females, and intolerable evil; for they not only, as to effeminacy and delicacy, became like women in their persons, but they also made their souls most ignoble, corrupting in this way the whole race of men, as far as depended on them" (133-35; ET Jonge 422-23).[7]

Case closed.....

reply to post by SaturnFX


Wrong, you are required to grow in Christ which means turning away from sin and attempting to overcome with the help of Christ. You cannot be accepting of your own homosexuality or others continued choice to live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian.

Also, it is the indoctrination in our schools and rampant PCness that is leading to this. It is the homosexual kids shows like teletubbies that are purposefully corrupting the children to gain generational acceptance of the practice of homosexuality.

The DSM III had it right. Homosexuality is a mental disorder that needs to be treated. Forget about Christianity and what it says about it. I dare any of you who are pro homosexual lifestyle to really talk to your LGBT friends and ask them these questions...

1) What type of relationship do you have with your parent of the opposite sex?
2) Have you suffered any sexual or physical abuse in your childhood or early adulthood?
3) Did you have a home with both parents?

I think you will find an extremely high correlation between answers that would be considered negative to the first two questions for sure and the last question to a lesser extent.

I have done informal studies and about 90% of the homosexuals that I interviewed suffered some type of abuse, usually sexual and for gay women usually from a male and from gay men, usually ALSO from a male.

Stop being PC and stop trying to be accepting and work toward helping these people.

There are many people with drug addiction that don't want to be helped or alcohol addiction that think they are fine. So don't say, they don't think there is anything wrong with themselves. That isn't an excuse.

Also, don't say that it is genetic. The genetic proclivity will have a MUCH lower correlation with homosexual activity than either a poor relationship with the parent of the opposite sex, and or physical or sexual abuse.

Jaden

p.s. stop looking at everything from an emotional standpoint. I swear for people who try to ride the science kick, progressives are a bunch of emotional non-logic thinking dolts.

I think the words Fraudulant or Hypocritical would be more precise words for Organised Religion than Anti-Homosexual.

And if anyone asks why, the simple answer is this - Fraudulant, because the "Word of God" has been re-written and changed over the last 2012 years that it's not actually the original "Word of God". And Hypocritical because the Church condemns Homosexuality, yet there are so many homosexual and pedophilic priests within the Church. And Christians wonder why so many people are leaving the Church, and don't believe in organised religion!