reply to post by 3n19m470
It's sad that Christianity and gay people have to be politicized so strongly, and I hope it's just the US elections bringing the culture wars to a
temporarily heated level, because recently I've actually enjoyed discussions with some Christian members.
We can get along fine as people, and examine a topic, and I don't need their approval to be happy, and they don't need mine.
I wouldn't call myself a Christian, although the Bible is still very important to me, but many gay people do regard themselves as Christians.
I think the issue nowadays for everyone is too few rights, or just the occasional bone from power, and we all think that somebody is out to get us and
our rights.That feeling seems to be deliberately heightened by power, with assumptions that Christians will make us all live in an Old Testament
dictatorship, or fears that homosexuality is really a system that's out to turn all the kids gay.
Meanwhile there are significant problems in religion, there are doubtlessly problems in gay minority communities, and there are huge problems in
social transitions in gender power and all kinds of global competition and shifting populations.
It's really a time of spectacular transition, where the world left to people's grandchildren may look very different from the contemporary one.
So to an extent it's also a time of hyper-awareness of changing certain things, and in that there are politically tendentious and over-blown reactions
to things that shouldn't be such significant diversions at all.
What's scary from my gay position is that everything about being gay is generalized, to the point where being gay and being Christian are two mutually
exclusive polar opposites.
So one gets the feeling that individuals can be "known" by propaganda with generalizations like:
- all gays are ridiculously more promiscuous that heterosexuals, often with statistics dating back to the hippies, and even back then they weren't
- Biblical bedroom politics about literally laying in certain positions, and what that meant from a time of polygamy, concubinage, rape and
wife-borrowing; God-ordained heterosexual activities that would count as "fornication" today
- the idea that all gays are actively pro-same-sex marriage - few would be actively against it, but some would be indifferent, viewing monogamous
marriage as a recent confine that didn't even work for heterosexuals
Yet, if one hears some electioneering conservatives, then they are more concerned about a "redefinition" of heterosexual marriage, rather than keeping
gays from partnerships.
So there is an admitted crisis in heterosexuality and the patriarchal way it was organized, which lumps a whole bunch of fears onto gay people.
It's a dangerous tit-for-tat escalation to the advantage of politicians.
I would never like to see Christians bullied or treated badly just because they don't agree with me.
I agree with the OP that a fringe of very visible and vocal Christians have blundered badly in the culture wars, and their discourse comparing the US
to ancient Israel is very frightening and cult-like.
However I'm not sure whether it's good for gay people to be treated as a kind of football to attack or deconstruct religion.
Clearly there's a lot of other issues behind such sentiments.
I'm glad if people are pro-gay equality, but I'd hate to see some of the more fruitful discussion I've had with Christians disintegrate just because
we are constantly thrown in their faces.
It also doesn't make things any easier for gay Christians, or Christians (or other faiths) who want to live their faith without being actively gay.
There's a certain irony to it all, because there's hardly been a fascist/Marxist system of totalitarianism that didn't attack both the recognizable
gays and the recognizable Christians.
Christianity can be many things, and has been many things: it has been anti-Semitic, misogynistic, colonial, pro-apartheid and Islamophobic, to name a
Yet many of those things are in the past (but not all, or always, and there were always some Christians who suffered for social justice), but we
certainly wouldn't immediately say that anti-Semitic readings still apply clearly today.
So the question is why this specific reading is so pushed by politicians today, and why people are so eager to engage it.
Clearly there have also been mean-spirited gay people in history too, although the historical closet makes that more obscure.
So, just to reiterate what I see as a crucial point: many of the Christian speakers from the US I see on TV speak less on gay marriage than they do
about a crisis in heterosexual marriage, or the dangers of "redefining marriage".
But is that really a gay issue, or an issue that gay people as such could solve for a vast majority?
Are there underlying fears, and what are they?
It's a heated debate once again on this thread, but when people are seen as generalizations and stereotypes like in some posts here, I do hope that
behind the points one can still see individuals with complexities, fears and hopes.
edit on 15-5-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)