Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by SoulReaper
If you can't understand the increased health risks for Gay Men due to their lifestyles.. I guess I can't help you there either..

Soul

No. You are putting the cart before the horse. This isn't about 'gay men', this is about 'lifestyle' choices. Nothing in these studies indicate that 'gay men' are at any more risk than anyone else. The only risk comes from poor 'lifestyle' choices.

The studies also draw a comparison between socio-economic levels and disease, and that poor education is also to blame.

edit on 17-5-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

you can continue to be willfully ignorant of the facts but I will just give you one quote from that first JAMA study that apparently you are not willing to comprehend.

In a 1992 retrospective
study, researchers determined an 84 to
1 relative risk of anal cancer after AIDS
diagnosis among gay men compared with
the incidence of anal carcinoma in ageand
sex-matched persons in the general
population.

and in this same study the percentage of gay men who were HIV positive ranged from 18-29% depending on the age ranges surveyed.

Do you know the % of the US population that is HIV Positive?? Its 0.7%

This means that the Gay male population is 26-41 times more likely to contract Aids then a non Gay individual (male or female) That is a HUGE disparity and these numbers may be low compared to the actual reality due to the sample sizes of any study.

8400% higher incidence of Anal Cancer after Aids diagnosis and 2600-4100% higher incidence of AIDS compared to the general population.

If you don't understand statistics i suppose its understandable that you don't know how to read these medical studies. but the numbers don't lie.. and they are not MY numbers.

Soul

reply to post by SoulReaper


You have got the numbers right, you just have the logic wrong.

What are the odds of a homosexual getting AIDS if he never has sex with any infected people? The same as your risk of getting AIDS if you never have sex with any infected people. You are trying to use a medical study to evidence social behavioral patterns, and it isn't logical. Like I said before, there are outside factors cited in the very articles you posted that link the increase in AIDS infections with education and socio-economic factors.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SoulReaper

Like I said gay man are more at risk of increased health risks then woman are... I am not biased on this matter.. I gave you studies that show this fact...

if you can't understand the studies that isn't really my fault.

If you can't understand the increased health risks for Gay Men due to their lifestyles.. I guess I can't help you there either..

Soul

Well, cheeseburgers and french fries leads to heart disease (The nations top killer). People have no issue with that though

So, if its practices we need to concern ourselves with, it goes from worst to best:

Cigarettes
fatty foods
cars
homosexual men
hetrosexual couples
homosexual females

Risk to rewards...better to be a gay woman than a smoker or fast food eater (especially if your eating fast food while driving and smoking)

Since AIDS was first recognized in 1981, it has led to the deaths of more than 46 million people worldwide, making it one of the most destructive diseases in recorded history.

And nearly HALF of all new cases of HIV in the US occur in the Gay Male Population.

Trying to marginalize the Health Risk of the Gay Lifestyle shows that you Do NOT care about the needs or Suffering of the homosexual Community.

My heart breaks for these people who are suffering so disproportionately to the rest of us. At least some of us are trying to help the Gay community by educating them on the increased health risk that they face.

Trying to make people ignore the risk is cold, cruel, and heartless. Lets show some concern and love for them by facing up to the facts and offering help to them if they so desire it.

Soul

reply to post by SaturnFX


That's true really.

Whenever you hear some christian propaganda, there is always something about gays. There shouldn't be any kind of organized effort to restrict the sexual liberties of people. There shouldn't be any difference in "societal benefits" between heterosexuals and homosexuals, because honestly its pointless. Not only that, it's kind of hateful.

This is nothing more than an old political tool for getting support... one that is fading and probably will barely be mentioned in any history books. Televangelists everywhere desperately clinging to their bank statements.

Give up the anti-gay crusade, nobody cares anymore. Find some productive way to make money.

reply to post by Furbs


Once again you do not understand the studies, 84 times more likely to develop anal Cancer after aids diagnosis is DIRECTLY related to the lifestyle choices that they make.

I know its difficult to understand the wording of the Medical community, but you honestly have to have an agenda to ignore the results in the manner that you do.

Soul

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Starchild23
I am not Christian.

However, I will step in to say that this is so blatantly inaccurate, it's hard to view this as anything but a troll thread. Considering 95% of the Bible does not concern homosexuals, it's pretty obvious that your angle has nothing to do with truth.

With that said, I believe the word you were looking for is "Homophobia", not "Christianity".

edit on CTuesdaypm565630f30America/Chicago15 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

I sentence you to read the ops, read the source.
This is not my personal view (I have better language for it). This is what a survey result was for 90% of young adults, 18-26 said specifically..
So, you can call the thread a troll thread
and you can call the study a troll study
and you can also call 90% of young adults today just a bunch of trolls.

Doesn't change the facts though.

Yeah and if they did this poll last month they would have said anti choice or anti reproductive rights. All this poll does is people stay up with current events.Not to mention i dont think Christians are worried since gays make up 2 percent of the population and going out on a limb here most dont believe in god.So its not like there going to join the church.

Now about the thread yes its trolling yes the original poll was trolling because everyone including the pollsters knew the results by how the question was asked and currently whats in the news.

Furbs and SaturnFX

Here is another resource you can use to educate yourself on the Facts regarding the homosexual lifestyle. I strongly support the efforts of the people who compiled this information for they truly care about the homosexual community and in particular are interested in attempting to prevent young gay teens from needless suffering.

factsaboutyouth.com...

Many of the increased Health Risks are DIRECTLY related to the prevalent lifestyle promoted in the gay community. You have to be willfully ignorant to deny it, or incapable of understanding the scientific based medical studies that have been done on the issue.

Soul

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Since AIDS was first recognized in 1981, it has led to the deaths of more than 46 million people worldwide, making it one of the most destructive diseases in recorded history.

And nearly HALF of all new cases of HIV in the US occur in the Gay Male Population.

Trying to marginalize the Health Risk of the Gay Lifestyle shows that you Do NOT care about the needs or Suffering of the homosexual Community.

My heart breaks for these people who are suffering so disproportionately to the rest of us. At least some of us are trying to help the Gay community by educating them on the increased health risk that they face.

Trying to make people ignore the risk is cold, cruel, and heartless. Lets show some concern and love for them by facing up to the facts and offering help to them if they so desire it.

Soul

I agree.

Free hiv tests for all.
You will find no argument from me on that...but not just for gays...all people.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Yeah and if they did this poll last month they would have said anti choice or anti reproductive rights. All this poll does is people stay up with current events.

And they say the kids today don't keep up with current events.

Not to mention i dont think Christians are worried since gays make up 2 percent of the population

5-8% is the estimation based on polling and reports averaged out. Religious firms find less, LGBT firms find more, the truth is typically in the middle.
The christians are worried..not about losing gay people, but losing friends of gay people, and tolerant people in general. You don't understand that?

and going out on a limb here most dont believe in god.So its not like there going to join the church.

That limb broke.
Personally I am best friends with a gay person...she is actually my only true long term friend. She is religious (not overly, but she certainly has faith). My gamer buddy is gay. He is a bit more religious, but not a church goer. And a associate of mine is gay, he is extremely religious, and near suicidal. He is attempting celebacy and keeps praying to stop being gay.
I have known many gay people in my life. every single gay person I knew had a varied degree of belief in god. All of them being far more than me.
Just a subjective view, objectively, a majority of GLBT folks believe in god, do a bit of reading up on it here

Gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you dont give a toss anyhow

Now about the thread yes its trolling yes the original poll was trolling because everyone including the pollsters knew the results by how the question was asked and currently whats in the news.

Yes, those durned christian polling trying to bash christians...

Its only a troll thread because it makes you question your preconceptions. You prove by your going on a limb, inaccurate information, and seemingly not even knowing that the polling done in question was by a christian organization that the only troll under this bridge is you.

Your choice if you care or not...you don't have to care...but being disingenious about the whole thing is transparent and says more about you than the subject at hand.
just going out on a limb here

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Furbs and SaturnFX

Here is another resource you can use to educate yourself on the Facts regarding the homosexual lifestyle. I strongly support the efforts of the people who compiled this information for they truly care about the homosexual community and in particular are interested in attempting to prevent young gay teens from needless suffering.

factsaboutyouth.com...

Many of the increased Health Risks are DIRECTLY related to the prevalent lifestyle promoted in the gay community. You have to be willfully ignorant to deny it, or incapable of understanding the scientific based medical studies that have been done on the issue.

Soul

Cool study bro
wonder why they didn't do a study on hetrosexual couples.
I sort of ignored the homosexual man issues and went straight to the gay girl bit. Funny stuff..their biggest risk, cause you know, they are also doing unhealthy stuff, comes from when gay women start sleeping with men, smoking, drinking, etc..aka, gay women have a high health risk because they aren't fully gay all the time, and they have vices...heh

so, I say again, being a hetrosexual person is more risky and unhealthy than being a homosexual female.

Yes, being a gay guy is the highest risk..your not finding out who is on the grassy knoll here, this is old information not being challenged...gay guys need to know the risks, precautions, etc...but put it this way
I, being a hetrosexual man, am at risk far more than a lesbian woman is at risk
does that mean I am going to stop being a hetrosexual man?
nope. I understand my risks, and take precautions.
So, the angle your attempting to persue (and care about) is a moot point...the only person that is doing fine is a monk or nun whom have chosen lifelong celebacy...short of that, its risk to reward estimation.

Originally posted by SoulReaper
reply to post by Furbs

 

Once again you do not understand the studies, 84 times more likely to develop anal Cancer after aids diagnosis is DIRECTLY related to the lifestyle choices that they make.

I know its difficult to understand the wording of the Medical community, but you honestly have to have an agenda to ignore the results in the manner that you do.

Soul

LIFESTYLE CHOICES. NOT BEING HOMOSEXUALS.

It is like you are experiencing some sort of cognitive dissonance.

reply to post by SoulReaper


The information in that website comes directly from Dr. John R. Diggs, Jr., and the Corporate Resource Council. Considering the topic is Christianity's anti-homosexual tendencies, it is nice of you to post skewed resources pulled from faith based initiatives proving that Christians will believe whatever a Christian doctor implicates.

Originally posted by GmoS719
You are wrong.
True Chrisitanity is not anti-homosexual, it's anti-sin.
Homosexuality falls in that category.
God doesn't hate the sinner he hates the sin, true christians do the same.

reply to post by Furbs


it is facts gleaned from science based medical studies and the fact that they are being presented by a Christian doctor refutes the general premise of this thread.

Apparently Christian people are MORE concerned about the health risks faced by the gay community then Non-Christians.. fancy that. We care about Gays despite the incorrect perceptions

I can produce scientific medical studies all day regarding the health risks faced by the Lifestyle Choices that are promoted within the gay community.

Where are your studies that show different??

Soul

reply to post by SaturnFX


My point is that the Lifestyle choices promoted by the gay community are unhealthy and lead to dire consequences disproportionately in comparison to the general populous. I have science and years of medical studies to back me up.

Interesting that you SKIP the info about Homosexual Males. Why would you do that? You obviously have an agenda if this is the case. Why ignore the Facts??

And I personally have an almost Zero percent chance of incurring the same diseases that are rampant in the Gay community. I'm in a completely monogamous relationship with the Only person I've ever had sex with and she the same. MY lifestyle choices pretty much ELIMINATE my health risk along these lines. Not completely mind you, crazy things can happen. But clearly there is a difference BECAUSE of my different LIFESTYLE.

If you deny this then i can only laugh at your desperation to push a crooked agenda.

Soul

reply to post by SoulReaper


It depends on what gays you are talking about. Is it the gays that are open or the 10% or so of the male population that claim to be "straight" but, regularly sleep with men at any chance encounter they may get with upwards of 90% saying they use no protection at all on chance encounters. I would say that many, many heterosexuals have a much riskier lifestyle than my own or are we all the same? In the gay community promotion I think it is established that one can be as prude or promiscuous as one wishes to be since I haven't received a flyer from the local gay agenda office telling me how to live any part of my life. One of my friends (a female) has been married 8 times and I will just say she has had far more partners than I and still doesn't count how many straight men (real) that claim to cheat on their spouses. Some gays and some heterosexuals are very promiscious...this is true.

WebMD Link: Many "straight" men have gay sex

Nearly 10% of Self-Proclaimed 'Straight' Men Only Have Sex With Men

Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by SoulReaper

 

The information in that website comes directly from Dr. John R. Diggs, Jr., and the Corporate Resource Council. Considering the topic is Christianity's anti-homosexual tendencies, it is nice of you to post skewed resources pulled from faith based initiatives proving that Christians will believe whatever a Christian doctor implicates.

I'd like to point out also that the information on the website does NOT come directly from DR. John R Diggs

It is a compilation of information drawn from 100's of medical studies or other resources. Pulled together in the interest of helping Gay people understand the consequences of the most prevalent homosexual lifestyle choices.

The References for facts presented on the website are found here
factsaboutyouth.com...

Hardly One Doctor "making up" statistics.

Deny Ignorance my friend.

Christianity is interested in HELPING people make good lifestyle choices that are in their own best interests. And like the above website we attempt to present the Truth(as we see it) as best we can. If you have Studies that Refute the facts presented from the above list of References I'd love to see it. After all this website is about pursing the Truth is it not?

We want what is BEST for Gay people and our concern extends to the Damage that their lifestyle choices can have on their own health.

Consider this evidence of Christians who love Gay people and love to try to help them in any way that they will allow us too.

How interesting it is that the Christians are concerned about the Well being of the Gay community and the People who Hate Christianity are Unconcerned about the Health risks associated with the Gay lifestyle and just want to bash the Christians who are trying to be loving and helpful. Consider your true colors shown.

Soul

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Interesting that you SKIP the info about Homosexual Males. Why would you do that? You obviously have an agenda if this is the case. Why ignore the Facts??

I didn't skip over facts, I acknowledged it actually.
Smoking is bad also incidently, does that mean I have the right to tell others not to smoke? Nope, if they know the facts, and do so anyhow, that is their choice, right, and god bless em, right?

So, if they are not worried about it, why are you worried about it? As you said, you have almost zero percent chance of their lifestyle effecting you...

Which means your not trying to help them through old information...you are frustrated you cannot control them based on your personal moral standpoint.
the health thing is just a disguise you are using to pretend authority of wisdom...but it lacks honesty and integrity. You are probably a good person with a kind heart..at least to those whom you personally love. Work on those relationships, and stop concerning yourself with what other informed people decide for themselves...its not your place to remove their free will.

reply to post by SaturnFX


From what it says here in your OP it looks like you have done a great disservice to the membership and ATS in general.
Now what you are required to do to be a faithful T+C member IS to clarify and quantify the statements you have made stemming from this--- Nothing more than a blog---
When asked by The Barna Group what words or phrases best describe Christianity, the top response among Americans ages 16-29 was “antihomosexual.” For a staggering 91 percent of non-Christians, this was the first word that came to their mind when asked about the Christian faith. The same was true for 80 percent of young churchgoers. (The next most common negative images? : “judgmental,” “hypocritical,” and “too involved in politics.”)

==============================================================

You are tasked here with providing the Questions ASKED not just the ANSWERS.

91 % OF NON CHRISTIANS. They can't leave CHRISTIANITY if they wanted to.

Why do you have to quantify this?--because in the blog BLURB above it says (most common negative)

You fail to present the entire survey, You must find the entire survey in the book below that is used as a

source. The BOOK titled (un Christian) any clue here MR BASHER

====================================================================

In the book that documents these findings, titled unChristian, David Kinnaman writes: ===================================================================

NOW also point out the LEADERS from this passage--
======================================================================

So Congratulations to the religious leaders and outspoken religious folks out there...your message of not liking "the gay" is heard loud and clear.
=================================================
NOW HERE is the BIG one For YOU who is we gotta HATE "the gay"
=====================================================

So, you lot got a choice...kick out the old fogies whom are banging their fists on tables saying we gotta hate "the gay' because they are all gay n stuff
==========================================================================

YOU SEE YOUR SOURCE is a tainted, un- substantiated pile of CRAP at least until you can verify it.
I will hold my apology until you can be so noble.
waiting ljb
PS and don't spin it by saying I didn't read it before posting it.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SoulReaper
Interesting that you SKIP the info about Homosexual Males. Why would you do that? You obviously have an agenda if this is the case. Why ignore the Facts??

I didn't skip over facts, I acknowledged it actually.
Smoking is bad also incidently, does that mean I have the right to tell others not to smoke? Nope, if they know the facts, and do so anyhow, that is their choice, right, and god bless em, right?

So, if they are not worried about it, why are you worried about it? As you said, you have almost zero percent chance of their lifestyle effecting you...

Which means your not trying to help them through old information...you are frustrated you cannot control them based on your personal moral standpoint.
the health thing is just a disguise you are using to pretend authority of wisdom...but it lacks honesty and integrity. You are probably a good person with a kind heart..at least to those whom you personally love. Work on those relationships, and stop concerning yourself with what other informed people decide for themselves...its not your place to remove their free will.

Your assumptions are so wrong its actually funny.

Providing FREE information is not Controlling people. There is not 1 single gay person that I have ever, ever tried to control in any way shape or form. In fact I have only Ever presented information in a general public format and NEVER spoken directly to any Gay people regarding "what I think they should be doing or not doing". I present facts that are truthful as best I can determine and if any are interested in further discussion I'm more then happy to engage them.

The purpose of that website is the following

Facts presents science-based information to clarify the medical and psychological discussions concerning this important aspect of a child’s life. Facts will not engage in the polemics of opinion, but will objectively offer the facts for all to see and assimilate. Facts is interested only in the welfare and protection of children and their families.

The purpose of my correspondence is similar. Simply to present Information for consideration.

You are a vindictive individual who makes ridiculous assumptions about peoples motives.

And the point I am making here in this thread is that MANY gay people and non gays are grossly misinformed of the health risks associated with the predominant lifestyle choices that often manifest themselves in the gay community. So while you can claim that they are making informed decisions. many of them are NOT.. and in particular the above website is quite concerned that many YOUNG CHILDREN are not mature enough to understand these risks. And Far too many Young Children end up with life long health struggles and suffering that is unnecessary as a result. It is an education and information problem and people who try to Control the information are truly the oppressors in my book.

So I am quite content to allow Everyone to voice their opinions and be quite tolerant of All people having their say. Why would it be that the Christian perspective is the only one that Should not be heard?? What are you afraid of?? Why not let all the different ideas and perspectives compete in the intellectual arena and let each person decide for themselves??

Your attempt to control this conversation is an epic fail. You don't know me, nor my hope for a better life for all of mankind( including Gay people)

Love, Hope, and sincere compassion will triumph over your attempts to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are not very tolerant of other people my friend. I hope you one day see the light.

Soul