Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual

Originally posted by mythos

"this is not christian hating... this is accountability."
========================================

Here it is.
Do not dodge it forever,
Accountability to who and what?
That is my question.
Got anything but spin now?

aha... thank you. i meant no dodge but was sidetracked by the whole FLY business. now that we are clear, i can proceed:

accountability to the whole of society (because not everyone believes as a Christian does) for the persistence and tenacity in fear & hate mongering towards the homosexual community.

Thank you,
Unless you train your accountability to the entire planet then you are a bigot and anti Christian for singling out that one religion.
No excuses no exceptions.
Peace ljb

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
Unless you train your accountability to the entire planet then you are a bigot and anti Christian for singling out that one religion.
No excuses no exceptions.
Peace ljb

Pointing out the shortcomings of a single religion isn't inherently bigoted. Nor is it Anti-Christian to speak out against Christianity. I am -strongly- Anti-Christianity, but then again, I am Anti-Religion, but I am not Anti-Christian. I do not have to like Christianity, but I do have to tolerate Christians.

It is not hard to understand how this perception is achieved.

If you gave me the power to make the Media report what I wanted reported, to make the high school and elementary teachers teach what I wanted, and make the college professors push my agenda... not to mention if I could influence pop culture and holly wood to mimic my positions...

I could easily cause "young" people to think basically whatever I wanted. If you start programming kids from a young age all the way up through young adulthood during their most impressionable years, you will be successful at pushing any agenda you like with the majority of them. The only ones you won't get are those who have Strong parental influences in their lives and who listen to their parents and not society.

If they taught the real scientific, peer reviewed health studies regarding the astronomically increased health risks associated with the homosexual lifestyle from Preschool on up through College and showed kids the horrible diseases that can result... I can bet you would see a much different perception in society and perhaps even a lower rate of homosexuality among the population.

And that is just a position from Science dis-regardless of the moral aspect...

I would never try to indoctrinate other peoples kids in this way... however my own children will know the facts and understand the moral foundation behind my position on the matter. I'm just saying that if you attempt social engineering in this day and age of two parents working and "the village" raising the children... your quite likely to be successful.

Soul

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of your own homosexuality or others continued choice to live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian.

Didn't read the rest yet, sort of got stuck here.
lets see...I am not gay, so let me remove the irrelevant parts of this sentence:

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of others continued choice to live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian.

Lets remove then the specifics and make it a overall mindset statement. If I can not accept something about someone else whom is not harming anyone in their practices and desires, then that is a show stopper, so for me, it could be almost anything in there with equal weight.
What does that leave me with.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of others and be Christian.

Ahh, I see the issue now
Yes, I cannot be a christian, because I accept others for them to be who they are so long as they harm none in their personal persuits.

I accept you being religious (see, I am just incapable of not accepting people...I guess I am simply not cut out to be a christian on your terms)

Oh really.. So you think you can completely edit a sentence and manipulate it's meaning to fit your preconceived notions and allow you to respond in a way that contextually makes zero sense and that you then have a valid argument...

Let me guess, you voted for Obama and are going to do so again, or better yet you are from Europe or Canada and love Marx as your idol???

Jaden

Originally posted by SoulReaper
If they taught the real scientific, peer reviewed health studies regarding the astronomically increased health risks associated with the homosexual lifestyle from Preschool on up through College and showed kids the horrible diseases that can result... I can bet you would see a much different perception in society and perhaps even a lower rate of homosexuality among the population.

Why not toss a few of these peer reviewed health studies into the thread, just for funzies.

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of your own homosexuality or others continued choice to live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian.

Didn't read the rest yet, sort of got stuck here.
lets see...I am not gay, so let me remove the irrelevant parts of this sentence:

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of others continued choice to live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian.

Lets remove then the specifics and make it a overall mindset statement. If I can not accept something about someone else whom is not harming anyone in their practices and desires, then that is a show stopper, so for me, it could be almost anything in there with equal weight.
What does that leave me with.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You cannot be accepting of others and be Christian.

Ahh, I see the issue now
Yes, I cannot be a christian, because I accept others for them to be who they are so long as they harm none in their personal persuits.

I accept you being religious (see, I am just incapable of not accepting people...I guess I am simply not cut out to be a christian on your terms)

Oh really.. So you think you can completely edit a sentence and manipulate it's meaning to fit your preconceived notions and allow you to respond in a way that contextually makes zero sense and that you then have a valid argument...

I didn't remove the context, I simplified..the original sentence..but its still the same
you say christians cannot respect other peoples right to choose.
that is totally lame, and stinks of theocratic desires. Christian taliban. Spanish inquisition..dark ages were because of mindsets like that.

Let me guess, you voted for Obama and are going to do so again, or better yet you are from Europe or Canada and love Marx as your idol???
Jaden

Yes, I am actually a european canadian obama voter and I got every marx poster on my wall. Karl, Groucho, even the former hearthrob, marky marx.

Thank you,
Unless you train your accountability to the entire planet then you are a bigot and anti Christian for singling out that one religion.
No excuses no exceptions.
Peace ljb

well... this thread was about Christians and their relationship to homosexuality. as well, i live in the south of the US, in a state that has just unfurled their anti-homosexual banner loud and clear... even diminishing civil liberties in the process. so the topic is one that is affecting me on the home front.

but, just you so know, of course i would love for any hate/fear monger to be held accountable to the whole of the planet for the venom they spread... not just those who lurk within Christianity, but those of every crooked sort, no matter their denomination, politics, philosophy, religion, etc...

once again, we happened to be talking about Christians in this thread.

PS#1 - just to be clear. though i am no Christian, i have no hate for the religion and its various sects, and indeed find the teachings of Christ inspiring. it is just unfortunate that that religion has be used as a medium for violence.

PS#2 you have called me ignorant, bigotted & anti-christian. my, you are an ornery bugger, eh?

live & let live.

Christianity is another method of control. Just like all other major religions, with a few notable exceptions. If there is some kind of creator of our universe I seriously doubt it gives a rats ass about two people of the same sex having a relationship. Matter of fact a true God would have much bigger things to deal with being creator of existence and all.

-Tij

The Bible says many things for some times it says blue is blue and then sometimes it says blue is red.

Part of what perplexes me about some groups in Christianity is their approach to the Torah and the rest of the Bible, for on one hand, they hold that the Bible is infaliable and the absolute Word of God but on a another, do not complately seem to follow it. There are also aspects of the NT which are difficult to reconcile with the OT, such as the concept of God incarnating into the flesh and becoming a blood sacrifice for the sins of humanity, also questionable is the necessity of such an act. In the OT, there are already a paths of forgivenance and redemption (for both Jews and Gentiles) and human sacrifice is forbiddon. But that is just to name a few.

It is the Law which is often qouted and is the source for the prohibition against homosexuality in the NT (although there are some interesting debates about this mitzvah which may or may not be as it seems). My question is, why should parts of the Law be observed but not the other parts? And how is one to know clearly what part of the Law is to be observed and what is not? It is a serious matter that is not covered clearly in the NT, in fact, it can be rather vague, and the idea that Christ is the fullfillment of the Law only raises more questions.

I think I have to agree with some of the posters in that the topic of the thread over generalizes and dosn't represent the diversity of Christianity however, I think to some degree it does represent the overall impression that Christianity leaves on some of the population. Personally, I don't think of homophobia as representing what Christianity is.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by SoulReaper
If they taught the real scientific, peer reviewed health studies regarding the astronomically increased health risks associated with the homosexual lifestyle from Preschool on up through College and showed kids the horrible diseases that can result... I can bet you would see a much different perception in society and perhaps even a lower rate of homosexuality among the population.

Why not toss a few of these peer reviewed health studies into the thread, just for funzies.

Sure I'll just provide links and spare the details of the diseases and such.. you can go inform yourself as you see fit.
Gay men are more at risk of serious health issues then lesbian women are for obvious reasons that I don't think I need to articulate... here you go

jama.jamanetwork.com...
aje.oxfordjournals.org...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
sti.bmj.com...
geronj.oxfordjournals.org...
www.cdc.gov...#

And that is literally just the tip of the ice burg...if you would like more to read... just ask.

Soul

reply to post by SaturnFX


Homosexuals in one word are: Anti-Christianity

It's amazing!

The government can tell you what food you can put in your mouth to keep you healthy

But the government can't tell you what you can and can't stick up your butts to keep you healthy

The Homosexual "lifestyle" is a choice. Just like any other sin in God's eyes.

Just a thought I had while responding to another thread, take it for what you will:

"The laws of "kill for this" or "stone for that" were erased from the law because of the sacrifice he made for you on that cross. You don't need to be circumcised (and being so doesn't buy you a free pass [it's more about cleanilness anyways. Just easier to clean a ...well, anyways...) or sacrifice a cow everytime you screw up, because he forgives you. He died as the ultimate sacrifice so you didn't have to bring harm to people anymore (He, without sin, cast the first stone). He has it covered. Anything less wouldn't be much of a messiah, now would it?"

"True christians may not agree with your life style choice, but to hate or show you prejudice is being a pharisee. The Lord reigns. He'll take care of it. Show those people in your life (both friends, family and even [hell, especially] the stranger) the love of Christ, don't judge them. The ten commandments still apply. Just because the Lord is long suffering and willing to forgive even up to that final hour isn't a reason to push the limit (Paul told you this). So stop worrying about people going to hell, and start living a life that shows you are in the love of the true messiah, and therefore, true God."

Note: All this was snipped from: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hope that helps more than fuels any fires, may the Force be with you all. ^.^

Originally posted by SoulReaper

jama.jamanetwork.com...

This study clearly points out that women are at less of a risk of catching an STD from another woman than they are a man. The study also goes on to suggest that homosexuality isn't necessarily the cause of any of these conditions, rather unsafe sex practices are to blame, regardless of sexual orientation.

aje.oxfordjournals.org...

Same findings as the above. Lesbians less likely to get cervical carcinoma because of a lack of exposure to HPV. Humans more susceptible to cancer if HIV is present.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Yet another AIDS study with the same findings.. This isn't looking good.. unless you are under the impression that AIDS is something only homosexuals can get.. I will read the rest of these studies over the next day or so, and if I find anything worth mentioning, I will bring it up. Right now, I'm not really impressed.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Many parents are idiots...sorry...but thems are the facts

Yah and so are a lot of Statists and politicians.

I'm not gay and I'm not homophobic , and don't really care what your sexual preference is as long as it doesn't involve kids and I'm not religious. I don't care if you marry your goat or seven sisters for that matter. So I'm totally non biased as long as your sexual preference doesn't hurt me or my neighbors.

Why is homosexuality such a big thing? Who cares? So you are gay so what?

There are plenty of sexual preferences or kinkiness out there that don't get openly discussed or demonstrated in public. If you are secure with your sexuality then display it or don't, but don't expect everyone to accept it. If a religion is anti gay then simply don't join that religion but don't expect it to change for you.

IMO I think Christianity fails on many levels and homosexuality is the least troublesome. However, I don't think the majority of Christians are going out there saying you are the devil because you are gay. On the contrary I think because of their belief system they are trying to save you because your sexual preference is a sin according to their believe system. IMO if you are gay than you have two option, one is become a Christian and either accept that what you are doing is a sin or two come to the conclusion that Christianity is not for you. So what if they think what you are doing is wrong? why do they have to accept you if you don't accept their believe system either?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Source
Yep
Not truth, not morality, not hope, none of that.

Its simply associated with being anti-homosexual, or the club for homophobes.

When asked by The Barna Group what words or phrases best describe Christianity, the top response among Americans ages 16-29 was “antihomosexual.” For a staggering 91 percent of non-Christians, this was the first word that came to their mind when asked about the Christian faith. The same was true for 80 percent of young churchgoers. (The next most common negative images? : “judgmental,” “hypocritical,” and “too involved in politics.”)

So Congratulations to the religious leaders and outspoken religious folks out there...your message of not liking "the gay" is heard loud and clear.
And also congratulations on completely isolating any potential future for your religion..lose the youth, you lose it all..

Later research, documented in Kinnaman’s You Lost Me, reveals that one of the top reasons 59 percent of young adults with a Christian background have left the church is because they perceive the church to be too exclusive, particularly regarding their LGBT friends. Eight million twenty-somethings have left the church, and this is one reason why.

I am not saying Christians should rewrite their bible, but rather, its time to put perspective on it.
Being gay is one sin, which is alright should you accept christs sacrifice
So is lying. People lie all the time.
And lets say you somehow are without sin, you are STILL going to hell unless you do the catch all, which is ultimately just accepting christ..right?

So, you lot got a choice...kick out the old fogies whom are banging their fists on tables saying we gotta hate "the gay' because they are all gay n stuff, and install some reasonable minded young ones whom see being gay about as damning as telling someone those jeans don't make them look fat (cough)....focus on the sin, and your just a bunch of judgemental jerks...focus on the love of christ and his sacrifice for all the people and the idiotic things we do, and you may win some back over time (once you shut up your anti-gay idiots).


-not gay, don't care either way what others do, but bigotry is bigotry..and its a (well deserved) dying trait that deserves no respect or attention-

edit on 15-5-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

LMAOLMAOLMAO!

Homosexual psychopaths crack me up. Millions of Gen Y leaving the Church because it is hostile to homosexuality? What complete and total BS. It has to do with the Churches supporting messed up things like prohibition, "tough on crime", the fact that Christian (mostly Protestant) Churches go out of their way to demonize men while worshiping women. I mean if you actually listened to their BS, looking at porn= one way trip to hell, but Christian gal's can be "adventurous" and disregard marriage vows all they want and that is A OK.

This is why I loathe homosexuals(besides their long time alliance with feminists but I digress). Grasping on whatever they can to say what they want irrespective of the facts!

It isn't Eight million young people, it is by and large young to middle age men who abandoned the Church. And to re-frame* it to the benefit of your private activist interest is so beyond intellectually dishonest that this thread should be deleted for outright fraud.

And the number of people who are "really offended" because homosexuality is regarded as an "abomination" in Christianity and Judaism, is so small and most of them are agnostics. So they wouldn't attend a Church anyway.


happolatismiscellany.wordpress.com...

www.mgtowforums.com...

bwanasimba.wordpress.com...

www.avoiceformen.com...

When homosexuals try to hijack the issues of other demographics for their own benefit, it is only going to blow up in their faces.

reply to post by korathin


Your sort of all over the map here.

You don't like gays, because your church seems to like women more, and therefore..something about feminists, and...huh?

Women being treated equal or occasionally suggested better at times then men made you stop going to church is arguably what I am getting out of this...therefore gay people annoy you...because of women...and something about porn verses infidelity..

-blinks-

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by korathin

 

Your sort of all over the map here.

You don't like gays, because your church seems to like women more, and therefore..something about feminists, and...huh?

Women being treated equal or occasionally suggested better at times then men made you stop going to church is arguably what I am getting out of this...therefore gay people annoy you...because of women...and something about porn verses infidelity..

-blinks-

No, being treated like a black in the 1930's made me stop going to Church. Well maybe not the 1930's, but being treated as less then human by a bunch of twits is far too insulting for my tastes. And judging by your reply, you didn't really read what I said, or read the links. And if you did read the links, wow; I guess some peoples chauvinism is so severe, they think demonzing one gender means "equality" for the other..

About porn, it was a simple statement to illustrate the fact that Protestant Churches are "OK" when women commit adultery(they blame it on the husband actually), and Christian Romance novels(which is worse then most Porn out there), but anything that reduces the sexual power of women, or they feel takes away from women, is severely evil. I am not justifying porn, but merely illustrating a gendered hypocrisy in the Church.

As per Feminism, History has shown feminism is nothing more then a female supremacist hate movement, as illustrated by the NOW being against the Republican House amendment to the VAWA which would add an absolute mandate(instead of the existing passive mandate) of gender equality in terms of domestic violence services and assistance. As the current VAWA allows funding to DV shelters that discriminate against older male children, and male victims of domestic violence.

Again, discriminating against or seeking the disenfranchisement of men does not illustrate equality for women.

The simple fact is you read what I wrote, and intentionally wrote that obfuscate drivel because you couldn't stomach what was written, but could find no real fault with it. So if you couldn't attack it directly you decided to use emotional abuse. Kind of like if a person made a statement about something, and another person couldn't find direct fault with it. So they repeated it in a half arsed way, with an embarrassingly ignorant mentally challenged like speech pattern.



-
As per my unruly opposition to homosexuals: "The personnel is political and the political is personnel". I know I shouldn't, but it feeds into a few of my "bad traits". I understand the origins of the gender war and all it's intricities. I understand the role male and female homosexuals played in it. Heck I can even sympathize with them, up until the 1980's. Because of homosexual's actions in the 80's, the seeds for a culture of hatred against males, particularly heterosexual males(there are differences in how the different races are persecuted. For example when I attend community college I faced outright bigotry, while I observed that an African American male student was coddled and treated like a mentally handicapped person in a highly insulting manner) was created. For that, and until they seek redemption, well the personnel is political and the political is personnel.

Originally posted by korathin
No, being treated like a black in the 1930's made me stop going to Church. Well maybe not the 1930's, but being treated as less then human by a bunch of twits is far too insulting for my tastes.

Sure, I imagine nobody would like that.
But, is that the official stance of the church, or just some individuals trying to be witty and pander to women?

And judging by your reply, you didn't really read what I said, or read the links. And if you did read the links, wow; I guess some peoples chauvinism is so severe, they think demonzing one gender means "equality" for the other..

I read the links. personal accounts I can't discuss, as it is personal instances, however the last link was filled with inaccuracies, generalities, and nonsense overall...makes me feel like he is easily intimidated.
one instance is him suggesting women cannot be cops, its a mans job, and women need to basically worship men for keeping em safe.
bull...not even going to source this..if this guy thinks there are no women beat cops, he clearly lives in a cave...that is one example of a paragraph riddled with inaccurate information for a rather odd point/agenda.

About porn, it was a simple statement to illustrate the fact that Protestant Churches are "OK" when women commit adultery(they blame it on the husband actually),

Care to source this? is this the official stance of the church? I never heard that before. Granted, I am not a church goer anymore, but I used to be, and was catholic schooled...never heard of such stuff...odd church you attended

History has shown feminism is nothing more then a female supremacist hate movement,

In what way? Can you point to a official stance they hold that is outside the scope of equality...or is your opinion based on just some butch chick you once met that thinks guys suck...

and male victims of domestic violence.

So, your wanting a sort of bunkhouse for men whom were beaten by women or something?
I am in two minds about the violence against women act mind you...I see the practical necessity of it..not all things are equal..men are stronger than women, and have a much greater role of physical intimidation over a woman..this is simple biology.
Is it unfair? no...is it equal? no. I am ultimately not bothered about a place where women can escape abusive partners...but then again, I have a slightly traditional view of men and women. Mostly because biological differences show this is how things simply are.

The simple fact is you read what I wrote, and intentionally wrote that obfuscate drivel because you couldn't stomach what was written,

No, I couldn't understand the point
Still don't
how does any of this = distain for homosexuality?
See, I understand what your saying...society is being mean towards men...and somehow you go from that point, to a leap of...and therefore gay people annoy me...
...

but could find no real fault with it. So if you couldn't attack it directly you decided to use emotional abuse

Oh, I could attack pretty much everything you said quite directly and even source out actual facts...but thats not the overall point..the point is, you weren't making a coherent one.

Anyhow...why not start a thread yourself on why you think women are getting special favor in the US if your not into discussing the study sited in ops...I am not saying your wrong on all your views...some areas I may agree...some obviously not..but its not the overall point of this thread, and you have yet to link how your views on that somehow are relevant to distaste of homosexuals...maybe there is a link and you haven't said it yet..maybe not...who knows...and starting to think, who cares if you just want to rant about men being treated unfairly...

My manly advice...suck it up...your as weak as you want to be, not as "they" see you.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

My manly advice...suck it up...your as weak as you want to be, not as "they" see you.

Thank you for proving my point* for me. You are far too chauvinistic to be able to see this problem clearly, as it is not a problem of doctrine, but of institutionalized and pervasive bias. As per the NOW being "butch", that is offensive to the many butch women that where actually fairly cool human beings I hanged out with from time to time in the past.

You have to understand that I am viewing these things on a scope far outside my own unique perspective. As per the offensive link, I just did a quick paste and copy. I admit the error in not thoroughly vetting the links as I was annoyed I couldn't find the one I wanted.

As per feminism being a hate movement: This link is a decent essay on it

www.avoiceformen.com...

These two are better(in terms of articles only, content throughout the websites have not been vetted)

feministhate.tripod.com...
eternalbachelor.wordpress.com...
------

In hind sight, I think i was being too cruel to you. Maybe your just not intelligent enough to understand what I wrote in a very plain fashion. I clearly stated the reasons why I find homosexuals disdainful, or rather why I am actively against their interest's. Instead of quoting my statement, you quote the part where I accused you of deflection, of writing a reply in a way that devalues what I written.


If someone glossed over what I written and read only your reply, in a very real sense in the individual observers perspective, what I written would be radically changed into something else. As the person would develop a bias against my reply and not read it in earnest. And given that your a perfect illustration of how our species can space out, and ignore aspects of reality that conflict with pre-created biases, well you can see how that could make me feel upset and deeply insulted. As you are very much putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.

SaturnFX
So, your wanting a sort of bunkhouse for men whom were beaten by women or something?
I am in two minds about the violence against women act mind you...I see the practical necessity of it..not all things are equal..men are stronger than women, and have a much greater role of physical intimidation over a woman..this is simple biology.
Is it unfair? no...is it equal? no. I am ultimately not bothered about a place where women can escape abusive partners...but then again, I have a slightly traditional view of men and women. Mostly because biological differences show this is how things simply are.

This is where we differ and where I end all discussion for practical, forum based reasons. Ahh heck it has been awhile. Because you start off by devaluing abuse victims, human beings betrayed by the person they trusted the most, into a kind of sick psychological shaming. And guess what you chauvinistic pig! Women can actually cause a great deal of damage. And women ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE WEAPONS! It isn't muscle and bone that make our species super predators, but our brains + ability to use tools.

This is why malice towards homosexuals is justified. As long as homosexuals and their advocates act in league with the feminist hate movement or engage in misandry, the future is only going to get worse for them. I see what your trying to do, and it only increases the intensity of the flame. It is not going to work out the way you intend it to. Unless of course I am mistaking you for being more intelligent then you are. I am really not sure if your actually an intelligent but severely biased person, or just that stupid. Kind of like watching Mr.Magoo.






-------
I see I am wasting my breath on an unrepentant sexist bigot. My stance atleast gives homosexuals an opt out, you? You laugh as victims of abuse die in police custody or are killed with a shotgun blast to their backs(A feminist, Domestic Violence lobbyist got into an argument with her Husband[they where newly weds], he did the right thing and walked away when it became too heated, she followed him with a shotgun and killed him in broad daylight).