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Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?

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posted on May, 24 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 






Originally posted by Greatest I am
So then you believe that human sacrifice and a God that can be bribed is somehow moral?


Not exactly

2nd Line


- JC




posted on May, 27 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 

What a game for your God to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal suffering or death.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over.
And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal suffering or death and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

I have to disagree, as you misunderstand here.

It is we who pick and choose, and death is the natural lot of man - we were not created immortal. The choice lies with all of us, and it is an easy one in my opinion: live forever afterward, or not.

Now to clarify - I break with pretty much the rest of my brethren here - I do not believe one has to be a "christian" to make this cut. If you read the words of Christ regarding life, pretty much the only qualifications are to live a life pleasing to god: be humble, kind, a peacemaker, return good for evil, etc.; in short, live christ-like. And even those who have never heard the message or had it properly presented to them can do all this easily.

Now, the world does not make this easy for us, and there are many temptations for us to live selfishly, cruelly, and in a manner displeasing to god - regardless of our personal beliefs. If we decide to do so, our choice obviously - then we don't receive the gift (and speaking only for myself, I wouldn't want to spend the rest of eternity with such people anyway). I firmly believe an 'atheist' might be surprised to find themselves awaking in paradise one day.

My reasons for believing this is that the bible is very clear on teaching that sin is of the heart, it is not imputed where there is no law (and a law without awareness and understanding of it - and hence intent to violate it - is no law at all IMHO), and that AFTER all believers have already had their resurrection/conversion, the rest of the dead will be raised to be judged *according to what they had done*, with some obviously to receive life.

So, there is no cruel trick here. It's just a matter of how we choose to live in this life and interact with the world and those others in it...and by how we decide, we might just live forever.

Take care.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
The bible is the most quoted, yet misunderstood text in the history of the world.
I have yet to see any Christian practice what their bible preaches.
Most tend to use it as a soapbox to spew hatred, condemnation, and judgement,
so backwards in what they believe their book says, they can't even be
called hypocritical, just ignorant.

The first page of the bible should come with the following disclaimer:

"Warning: Reading comprehension and a vast knowledge of history required."




edit on 15-5-2012 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)


Unfortunately I don't see many that oppose Christianity act much better. Its ok to spew venom at Christians as a whole, and think you are better than them?

I am a Christian, and don't wish to see anyone go to hell, though I do want people to realize and feel the pain they have caused others, so they can truly see what they need to be sorry for, myself included.

Quite honestly I see many that oppose Christianity with vengeance be far more guilty of what you accuse, then many Christians.

Not saying all non Christians are like this, and there are many on this board, who I have much respect for, just as there are Christians I have a difficult time respecting.

It just seems odd that you stoop to judgement , condemnation, and ridicule of "Most" Christians, for doing exactly what you yourself are doing in this post.


edit on 27-5-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft

"And I believe this is done, through following and getting to know God, through Jesus. "

Strange how you do not believe the evil parts of scriptures but do the goody parts. You are creating your own God.

So to you, all we need do is embrace the morality of human sacrifice and the notion that we should punish the innocent while letting the guilty walk.

No thanks.
That is quite immoral and you should not be advocating immoral positions.

Regards
DL

edit on 27-5-2012 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Greatest I am
 






Originally posted by Greatest I am
So then you believe that human sacrifice and a God that can be bribed is somehow moral?


Not exactly

2nd Line


- JC



Not exactly but you are still in the lineup that will try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
[

I am a Christian, and don't wish to see anyone go to hell, ]


Yet you will have to watch most of your family and friends fry forever and call it justice even after 1000000000000000000000000 years.

Feels good eh?

Regards
DL



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
[

I am a Christian, and don't wish to see anyone go to hell, ]


Yet you will have to watch most of your family and friends fry forever and call it justice even after 1000000000000000000000000 years.

Feels good eh?

Regards
DL


and you know this how?

Talk about assumption, and judgement.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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All discussions of the supernatural are speculative nonsense.

I am going by your un-proven dogma and tradition.

If you do not agree state why. Don't just cry and slink to lick your wound.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 





Originally posted by Greatest I am
"And I believe this is done, through following and getting to know God, through Jesus. "

Strange how you do not believe the evil parts of scriptures but do the goody parts. You are creating your own God.

So to you, all we need do is embrace the morality of human sacrifice and the notion that we should punish the innocent while letting the guilty walk.

No thanks.
That is quite immoral and you should not be advocating immoral positions.


But you don’t seem to understand how I see things…did you even read my post I linked above?

God didn’t punish anyone in our place, it was our sin that put Jesus on the cross in the first place. IMO Jesus came to help us get to know God and not to be some human sacrifice.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
Not exactly but you are still in the lineup that will try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.



I promote the life message of Jesus and not his death, so I’m not trying to profit from his murder, at all.

How am I trying to profit from an innocent man?

Can you please explain…?

I think you’re completely misunderstanding my perspective.


- JC

edit on 29-5-2012 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2012 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Greatest I am
 





Originally posted by Greatest I am
"And I believe this is done, through following and getting to know God, through Jesus. "

Strange how you do not believe the evil parts of scriptures but do the goody parts. You are creating your own God.

So to you, all we need do is embrace the morality of human sacrifice and the notion that we should punish the innocent while letting the guilty walk.

No thanks.
That is quite immoral and you should not be advocating immoral positions.


But you don’t seem to understand how I see things…did you even read my post I linked above?

God didn’t punish anyone in our place, it was our sin that put Jesus on the cross in the first place. IMO Jesus came to help us get to know God and not to be some human sacrifice.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
Not exactly but you are still in the lineup that will try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.



I promote the life message of Jesus and not his death, so I’m not trying to profit from his murder, at all.

How am I trying to profit from an innocent man?

Can you please explain…?

I think you’re completely misunderstanding my perspective.


- JC

edit on 29-5-2012 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2012 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)


If you do not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus then let me retract my comments on your morality and begin anew.

I agree that Jesus was a decent Rabbi in the sense that he wanted his people to go by the spirit of the law and not the laws as written.

As to much of what he said, it was useless un-workable rhetoric and anti-love.

He did not preach against slavery or the emancipation and equality of women.

His divorce law, let no man put asunder, is garbage as compared with what Moses put in place and even that was draconian and against women.

As to Jesus' turn the other cheek. Well what should a man do who just had his wife raped? Offer the daughter for a next?

See what I mean about some of his un-workable rhetoric?

Seek God my friend but seek better than what the Abrahamic cults have to offer.
I did and it paid off.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 30 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 






Originally posted by Greatest I am
As to much of what he said, it was useless un-workable rhetoric and anti-love.



Much of what Jesus taught, was done in coded parables, so not everything he teaches, is meant to be taken literally. And IMO Much of Christianity become formed because they did just that i.e. took most of his teachings too literally.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
He did not preach against slavery or the emancipation and equality of women.



According to the Gnostic texts, Jesus taught tolerance towards woman! And although most of Christianity has declared most of those texts heretical… I think many of them, are Jesus own words.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
His divorce law, let no man put asunder, is garbage as compared with what Moses put in place and even that was draconian and against women.



I believe the “let no man put asunder”, is connected to the 10 commandments i.e. “thou shall not commit adultery” In other words, it’s about advocating a one man, one-woman relationship.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
As to Jesus' turn the other cheek. Well what should a man do who just had his wife raped? Offer the daughter for a next?

See what I mean about some of his un-workable rhetoric?




Well, if everyman was “born of spirit”. then those types of things probably wouldn’t happen anyway…And Jesus promotes that everyone should strive to become “born again”, so IMO, that would be a very workable solution.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
Seek God my friend but seek better than what the Abrahamic cults have to offer.
I did and it paid off.



I did seek, and I found God… through Jesus… and I came to receive the “Holy Spirit”, when I came to believe/find the truth…I just don’t accept most of what Christianity teaches…




Originally posted by Greatest I am
I did and it paid off.


What truth did you find…?


- JC



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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Knowing something of Gnostic Jesus, you would know that all born again means is that he wanted people to grow up and accept new ideas.

You skimmed over the inadequacies of Jesus' rhetoric so fast that I know that you have not taken his one good message of the God within all of us. When you drop your idol worship and seek a God with workable policies, then we can chat of a better way to seek. You have found your Godinabook instead of the God within so I waste my time.

While here, I may as well reply to your question but I do not expect or even want any feedback till you are, born again and become an adult in your mind.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 






Originally posted by Greatest I am
Knowing something of Gnostic Jesus, you would know that all born again means is that he wanted people to grow up and accept new ideas.


“Born Again”, IMO means to become aware that you are spiritual being, i.e. that you are more than just your flesh and have a spirit.





Originally posted by Greatest I am
You skimmed over the inadequacies of Jesus' rhetoric so fast that I know that you have not taken his one good message of the God within all of us.

When you drop your idol worship and seek a God with workable policies, then we can chat of a better way to seek. You have found your Godinabook instead of the God within so I waste my time.




I don’t worship the idol, and I didn’t find God in a book. In my experience God was only confirmed, by the book.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
While here, I may as well reply to your question but I do not expect or even want any feedback till you are, born again and become an adult in your mind.


I am “born again” and I have awakened spiritually. I have become aware that I am divinely connected to God, and that I am a spiritual being, outside of my own flesh. And just like the Gnostic texts state, I know that I am child/son of the living God/Father.

People have different ways of expressing the same thing i.e. God within, my higher self, cosmic consciousness etc… the list goes on…



Originally posted by Greatest I am
The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”



Well that’s a good start IMO, because you have recognized that the many things that Jesus talks about, are actually seeped into the traditions of the Essene’s and the Gnostics. So IMO, the only way to try and work out the truth, is take those traditions and beliefs into account, when trying to discern Jesus words.



Originally posted by Greatest I am
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good.


Yes, I have become aware of this myself, and have been discussing it fairly recently, with a Christian member, here on ATS, on another thread.

I’m not sure if you’ve been following that thread but I have concluded that there is a certain faction within Judaism, who were not following the God who gave us the 10 Commandments, but were instead following something else, not of God. Which is why I believe Jesus said to the Pharisees that they were following their father, the “Father of lies”. And I believe this aspect of not following of God, can be seen in many parts throughout the OT, hence the atrocities etc…

The reason I believe Jesus quotes some of the prophets in the OT, is because he recognizes that God can speak through people, just like the Gnostics believed; and not because he (Jesus) is inextricably tied to all aspects of Judaism and the OT. Of course, trying telling Christians that, and they will throw the book at you…




Originally posted by Greatest I am
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.



Well, I’m not exactly sure what your describing but I think I may have a rough idea. I think you had a spiritual connection, to God, or, as you would put it, “cosmic consciousness”. As far, as I’m aware this connection, is normally done through love, or some kind of deep profound spiritual experience. My own experience, of receiving the “Holy Spirit”, which I also see as a divine connection to God, happened while I was reading Jesus words in the bible. You see, I believe Gods Spirit or “cosmic consciousness” or however people wish to define it… spoke through Jesus.

continued...



posted on May, 31 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Continued…




Originally posted by Greatest I am
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.


I’m kind of in the same boat myself, because I know that Jesus speaks on Gods behalf, and yet at the same time I see people are believing in things to do with their religion, which IMO, just aren’t necessary. And at the same time I can see the many objections that Atheists bring up, as being very valid, and true.



Originally posted by Greatest I am
The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.


Well, there were many different Gnostic groups, and although many had similarities in their theology, they didn’t all believe in the exact same things. And although the Christian Gnostics, were not what we would call Christians today, they did believe that Jesus was the “Son of God”, sent by the one true God, to help mankind.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.



I think God is really all about love, but I agree that it is not about, adoration or obedience. IMO we honor God, by helping people out, less fortunate than our selves, and by keeping God’s commandments.



- JC



posted on Jun, 1 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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Thanks for this.

We are in the same church, so to speak.

"I don’t worship the idol, and I didn’t find God in a book. In my experience God was only confirmed, by the book."

Nice. Tell how you found God to exist without the book.


"they did believe that Jesus was the “Son of God”, sent by the one true God, to help mankind."

Yes. Son of God in the same sense that we are all sons of God. Not as a supernatural force.
Jesus to them was either just a good Rabbi or an archetype. I go with archetype. That is how they used the other characters in their gospels.

They knew that man only had myths and not real or historic fact.

It can only be myth till apotheosis. Then God, or what we call God, is confirmed and opinion becomes knowledge. Gnosis.

What I found has nothing to do with creation, other than being a part of it, just as you and I are.
Nothing supernatural because if God had miracles, he would be revising his so called plan.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Originally posted by Greatest I am
Thanks for this.

We are in the same church, so to speak.

"I don’t worship the idol, and I didn’t find God in a book. In my experience God was only confirmed, by the book."

Nice. Tell how you found God to exist without the book.


I was a bit reluctant to get into all this, but here goes…


Well, it a pretty long story. I wasn’t brought up in a religious family, and only started searching for answers about 3 n half years ago. I guess it all started when I was about 21 years old, when I heard Gods voice in the middle of the night, saying the Lords prayer. At that time I just shrugged it off as a dream, because I didn’t believe in God or any of that stuff, but deep down, I always new that my experience was real. Rolling on some 12-13 years later, I started bumping into these born again Christians, literally everywhere I went. So I started to attend this born again Christian church, and did a lot of seeking asking questions etc, but I finally got to the point, where I just couldn’t believe any of it, and decided to leave, although I still kept in contact with many or the church goers.

Part of me just couldn’t let it go, so I started to research into just about every Christian denomination known to man. I would read many debates online, between the different denominations and try to understand why they believed what they did. I would also compare one group’s beliefs with Jesus own words and research passages, and various theological ideas etc.

Funny thing was, that during all this research, I didn’t actually believe in God. But slowly I began to consider if there was a God, without all the biblical baggage thrown in. So I began to ask myself the question “could there be a God, who was the creator of everything in the universe?” I would say I was essentially agnostic, during much of this searching phase. But I finally got to the point where I thought it was possible that there could be a God, who created everything, but other than that, I just didn’t know. And that’s when I heard Gods voice again, the exact same voice I had heard saying the Lords prayer, when I was younger.

This time the voice asked me a question, and the question was “What is man?” and also felt this inner voice asking me “What are you?” At this time I had no knowledge, of the Gnostic texts, but due to the question, I then began my own inner gnosis, without even really realizing it, if that makes sense.

Along with that question, I also began to build up a picture, of what I believed about Jesus, and I also began to believe in God, and that God had spoken through Jesus. After hearing the voice for the second time, I had what I now term, as chain synchronicity, i.e. one connection leading me to the next connection etc…To cut a long story short, my journey/search led me to believe I was a spiritual being, it also led me to the verse John 14, and one night while reading it, I received the Holy Spirit, and experienced what is described in John 7:38 “Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”. Strange thing was, that although I accepted some parts of Christianity, I didn’t accept all of it, still don’t in many ways.

It was only much later that I learned of the Gnostic texts and was amazed at the “Gospel of Thomas”, especially that verse, where Jesus asks people to examine themselves, and come to know that they/you are sons/daughters of the living Father.


There’s a lot more to my story, and the above is only the short version, but hopefully all of that, will help to answer your question, about how I found God, without the book, but like I said in my last post, in my experience, God was confirmed, by the book.



Originally posted by Greatest I am
It can only be myth till apotheosis. Then God, or what we call God, is confirmed and opinion becomes knowledge. Gnosis.




Continued...



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Continued…




Originally posted by Greatest I am
What I found has nothing to do with creation, other than being a part of it, just as you and I are.
Nothing supernatural because if God had miracles, he would be revising his so called plan.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



I just wanted to say a few words about this last part…those videos really hit home, on a personal level.

But I’ve come to understand that the reason why things are so bad in this world, is because people don’t know God and who, and what they are spiritually. Christians talk about the “fall of man” being “original sin” but IMO it was the knowledge of God (i.e. who and what we are spiritually) that was taken away from us, or we moved away from it ourselves. This is partly what I believe Jesus message was all about. When people don’t live for spirit but instead for flesh, they only end up living for greed and money, and power, which is only fleeting. Jesus was against the moneychangers in the temples, and against this worldly authority, which men have set up for themselves, and yet all this is still happening today, through the elite system, which keeps third world countries in debt, and creates situations, like the one in that video, you posted above. The world could do much better than this, but I believe it has to start from within, before it begins to effect the without. The girl in that video, suffered in this life, but I know that she has a spirit/soul that lives on. It’s just not meant to be this way, which is IMO, why we are in a fallen world.

And in the context of your thread and your question “Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?,” your question, is really based on this Christian idea of hell and punishment. IMO Part of Jesus message is about people moving out of this Hell like state, whereby they don’t know who and what they are, and into a knowledge/Gnosis/Belief, where they come to know, who and what they are spiritually, under God.

And although I believe Jesus use of the word hell, is largely metaphorical, I still believe that Hell is a place which we bring upon ourselves. If God cuts some people off, he does so, not because he wants too, but because he has no choice, which is why IMO, God is not the bad guy in all of this. You can’t expect to be a part of the light, if all you do is exhibit darkness… the light simply has no choice, but to reject you, from itself. This is why we bring judgment on ourselves and reap what we sow etc…So IMO it’s not about God punishing people, because God all along, is the one who has been trying to help us, and save us, from ourselves.


- JC



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Your Gnosis is coming along but do not trust the voice you heard because it has yet to confirm your paradigm and FMPOV, it is not yet on the right level.

Jesus said that we all have God, or better said, access to God from within all of us.
As children of God, we are perfect and so is our environment.
I know that I gave you those links above and that you will think that I was pointing to evil, and I was, but not to highlight it but to highlight how small a % it is per capita.

You will know that many of the markers for evil, slavery and violent death to name two, are the lowest they have ever been.

When I had my apotheosis, the Godhead chastised me to think more demographically as my next challenge to Gnosis. It never stops so do not idol worship Jesus or anyone else. Jesus said --- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods. God as you are finding out is within. Not without. The voice you heard was not Jesus or the God of the bible. They are archtypes only and myth to all who do not seek.
If you idol worship some other, you will never seek your true God and will never have a true apotheosis.
Do not settle for less.

Let me repeat my brief story. Read it more slowly recognizing that although the archetypal Jesus may have been a decent Rabbi, if you think of his rhetoric, you will recognize that he was man made. Jesus is there to free you. Not enslave you to dogma. Please watch the link below for a bit of history.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL





edit on 4-6-2012 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 






Originally posted by Greatest I am
Your Gnosis is coming along but do not trust the voice you heard because it has yet to confirm your paradigm and FMPOV, it is not yet on the right level.



From the wikipedia article



Jesus is identified by some Gnostics as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.[2] Others adamantly deny that the supreme being came in the flesh, claiming Jesus to be merely a human who attained divinity through gnosis and taught his disciples to do the same.



It would appear you go with the some aspect of the later, where as I go with a variation of the former.



From The Gospel of Truth




In this way, the Word of the Father goes forth in the totality, as the fruit of his heart and an impression of his will. But it supports the totality, purifying them, bringing them back into the Father, into the Mother, Jesus of the infinite sweetness.


And…


From The Gospel of Truth…



The Father reveals his bosom. - Now his bosom is the Holy Spirit. - He reveals what is hidden of him - what is hidden of him is his Son - so that through the mercies of the Father, the aeons may know him and cease laboring in search of the Father, resting there in him, knowing that this is the (final) rest.



And Again…


From The Gospel of Truth…



When, therefore, it pleased him that his name, which is loved, should be his Son, and he gave the name to him, that is, him who came forth from the depth, he spoke about his secret things, knowing that the Father is a being without evil.




Many Christian Gnostics believed in this Father, Mother and Son in their theology, and they believed Jesus was Gods revealed son i.e. “The Son of God”, and that God was revealed (spoke through him) in him. I also believe this to be true myself, but I still don’t worship the idol, but I do recognize the message, and the ones who brought it, i.e. Jesus and the Father.





Originally posted by Greatest I am
Jesus said that we all have God, or better said, access to God from within all of us.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
When I had my apotheosis, the Godhead chastised me to think more demographically as my next challenge to Gnosis. It never stops so do not idol worship Jesus or anyone else. Jesus said --- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods. God as you are finding out is within. Not without.



When Jesus said we are Gods, by quoting psalm 82, I believe he was referring to our higher spiritual selves, which we cannot see. And not that we are the Father/God, but that we do have access to God, from within us, through a spiritual connection.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
The voice you heard was not Jesus or the God of the bible. They are archtypes only and myth to all who do not seek.



From Melchizedek


Holy are you, Holy are you, Holy are you, Commander-in-chief of the All, Jesus Christ, for ever and ever, Amen.





Originally posted by Greatest I am
If you idol worship some other, you will never seek your true God and will never have a true apotheosis.
Do not settle for less.


Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you may need to take your own apotheosis, to the next level. Because like I said in my other post, not all of the Gnostics believed in the same things. regarding Jesus.




Originally posted by Greatest I am
Let me repeat my brief story. Read it more slowly recognizing that although the archetypal Jesus may have been a decent Rabbi, if you think of his rhetoric, you will recognize that he was man made. Jesus is there to free you. Not enslave you to dogma. Please watch the link below for a bit of history.


Yes Jesus tries to free us from dogma, this is correct, but he is also who He says He is!




Originally posted by Greatest I am
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.



Man is not the supreme being, the Father God, is supreme over ALL…


- JC



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Have you seen him step up lately?

BTW, most Gnostics do not read gospels literally. Not even their own.

Note the same Gnostic descriptions of hell. Easy to see that they are pure fiction.

Regards
DL



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