NIBIRU AT LAST?? Brazilian Astronomer claims have found rogue planet hidden behind Neptune.

Originally posted by Phage
Gomes offers two alternatives;

1) A Neptune sized object with an orbit of 140 billion miles. Such an object would have an orbital period of about 58,000 years. Not quite the 3,600 which Sitchin claimed for his mythical Nibiru.

2) A Mars sized object which has a perihelion of 5 billion miles. Nibiru is supposed to intrude upon the inner Solar System every 3,600 years. 5 billion miles is beyond the orbit of Pluto. That doesn't qualify either.

edit on 5/14/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Yeah I guess that would make it around 180years which doesn't fit at all.
I like the first one a lot better since it actually makes a lot more sense.
But it may be slightly closer or further than that give or take.

Was wondering if you were still around, nice to see you posting.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by 1AnunnakiBastard

 

So Sitchin was off by only 55,000 years? That doesn't really fit in very well with the rest of his story.

There have been a number of such hypotheses. None of which have any hard evidence to support them.

The Sumerians called several different things Nibiru; including a star and Jupiter.

The existence of an object anything like Nibiru (which, as Sitchin would have us believe, periodically enters the inner Solar System) is a physical impossibility. It would disrupt the orbits of the planets hopelessly.

Yes the superscripts indicate "Star" and "God" according to this research as well.
And there are a few other specific instances listed at this website:
Nibirupage

The sources are also cited, and there is sufficient documentation to consider this likely valid information.
If you see anything wrong with it let me know.

Originally posted by storm2012

Originally posted by MamaJ
Not a nibiru believer however anyone who has studied our Universe should know its filled with possibilites. We have observed space for only a short time.

What do we know for certain that will not change?

Everyone throwing out insults based on scientific "fact" is blowing me away with laughter.

Really.... I want to know from some of you die hard "science is fact believers" to tell me what is certain that will never ever change?

MamaJ, I know Universe is very complex and it is filled with possibilites. But this astronomers or scientist, you really think they just found this planet now. If they can find other galaxies, other clusters, other earth like planets thousand of light years away, what makes you believe this scientist are telling a fact. They dont even know our own solar system yet, and they are finding other planets outside of our own galaxy. And belive it or not universe is very complex and there is not only one universe, there are millions of other universes -- source (Hinduism), we are just one universe. There are much more advanced universes out there, cant explain all the details, but other more advanced universes exist. Its going to be hard for you to believe this, but that's a fact from the ancient text.

Hahaha, no I dont think they just found this "planet" nor do I think anyone here or anywhere for that matter can say anything with certainity in regards to our Universe and how it behaves in a state of constant. Things change...that is the only certainty. I think you and I are on the same page....

There are many life forms yet to be discovered....there are many discoveries waiting to be discovered. I for one would like to see more open minds rather than experts on something you really cannot be an expert on. We only understand a fraction... A tee tiny fraction yet people talk like they have facts. Again, the only fact or certainty is change. Once you get all comfy and cozy....bam....adaptation is needed because the Universe and everything in it is in a constant state of change!!!!

Is there something out there that may effect our life on this planet? Its possible .....and thats all one can say if they are honest. Science is like religion.... People form cults/ groups and defend their belief to no extent. Why? I have no idea as no one knows NOT anything for certain.......

reply to post by Just Chris


The size of Pluto? "Rodney Gomes says the new planet could be anywhere from half to four times the size of Earth" It is larger than the Earth and Pluto.

reply to post by Phage


i admire your patience, i can learn from that
(not to mention the factual information you have and the way you can communicate that information)

Oh geez not this Niburu thing again. Are the kids out of school for the summer already?

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard

If he's correct, this could be the astronomical find that finally corroborates the translations of Sumerians tablets made by Zecharia Sitchin. The intriguing part is how this object is keeping itself hidden from Earth telescopes... Perhaps it's not really a planet... Perhaps it's artificial in nature...

Firstly nice thread (starred and flagged) !!!

Secondly, if he's correct that would just make a discovery but in my opinion nothing in the relation with Sitchin's claims. I used to be a canny follower of Sitchin's work. Read countless of times everything he wrote but after so many years comparing his writings, reading what other researchers and scholars had to say and doing my own research, I came to the conclusion that Sitchin's work is just his and not a single shred of corroboration from other linguists and scholars. I base my claims in this two factors:

1- Ancient Sumerian Dictionaries - PROVE SITCHIN IS NO EXPERT OF ANY KIND REGARDING SUMERIAN TEXTS AND DELIBERATELY MAKING IT UP AS HE GOES ALONG.

2- THERE ARE NO TEXTS ANYWHERE THAT SAY THE THINGS THAT SITCHIN CLAIMS.

This of course is my conclusion but can be researched and proven by anyone with time and enough will to pursue this topic. Sorry to burst the bubble but we're here find the truth and not to cherish the deception. Once again, great thread. Kudos for the find.

this post if off-topic
yet I feel it might have some relevance

I am about the finalize an essay with a title that translates more or less into
"the cultural celebration of stupidity"

Unfortunately it's written in Dutch and will not be published before fall 2012 so I can't share it here, right now.

In the essay I try point at the sociological phenomena that leads to today's common practice among lots of people to reject rejection expertise, and science for that matter. It's a trend that scares me.

some of the posts in this thread are a wonderful illustration of the points I make in the essay.
maybe (there's some talks going on) there will be an English version. If that ever happens, I'll be glad to post parts of it here.

(mods, if you feel this is not the right place or moment for this post, feel free to remove it.
My ego won't be hurt )

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard

Originally posted by Just Chris
But the article doesn't once mention that it may or may not be Nibiru, just a rogue planet with a size similar to Pluto. Doesn't exactly fit NIBIRU descriptions.

With that in mind however, will be interesting to see what comes of this?

I never said the article mentions Nibiru. It's my own reasoning that it COULD BE the same object from Sumerian genesis. And I assume you didn't read the whole article because he states the object could be 4 times bigger than Earth, was dragged into our Sun's orbit with a very elongated path.

You should use better reasoning.

1) Five billion miles from the sun at closest approach is barely inside the orbit of Pluto.

2) No planet named "Nibiru" or any other variation of the term has ever been mentioned in any known Mesopotamian writings.

3) Zechariah Sitchin had no knowledge whatsoever in any ancient language - not even Hebrew,

4) As was stated, no planet whatsoever has been found in the Kuiper Belt (so far.)

Harte

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard

...And by the way "winged planet" is only an ICON used by Sumerians to depict what they saw in the sky, and it could have been anything INCLUDING an alien space station...

Im not really a believer in Nibiru and all that as I tend to believe in Science, but there was 1 thing your post made me think about...

As far as I know, the Sumerians were around long before we knew the earth was round. So if they believed OUR planet was flat, which I figure was the common belief back then, then they may have seen a very large flat thing with wings, and thought it was what planets looked like when seen from below. A flat thing with wings sounds more like a spaceship than a round thing with wings.... to me anyway, though to be fair,I am just a Dumb Ape.

cheers,
AA

reply to post by Phage


Mythical? How can you be so sure. I've been an amateur astronomer for a long time and while I don't really subscribe to the whole planet- X hype I certainly don't just fly off at the mouth and call it a myth like I know what the universe holds for light years upon light years!

When you make statements that so matter of fact like this you lose all credibility Come down off that horse a minute and think about size of our universe a second. Then look me in the eye and say it would be impossible.. ya that's what I thought. This is EXACTLY the type of thinking that prevents the human race from advancing. I just hope your really not an astronomer for the reason stated above.

I'm really starting to notice a pattern with you.. it's disturbing. With a mind as closed as yours you sure as heck won't discover anything new that's for dern sure!! Now as you were carry on...You know knee-jerk habitual debunking based on the rules that are allowed only. For God sake don't do that moronic thing called "THINKING" and forming your own opinion that differs from mainstream! Oh heavens no!!

reply to post by firegoggles

I've been an amateur astronomer for a long time and while I don't really subscribe to the whole planet- X hype I certainly don't just fly off at the mouth and call it a myth like I know what the universe holds for light years upon light years!

Sitchin's Nibiru has nothing to do with "light years upon light years". It is a planet which enters the inner Solar System every 3,600 years. This is impossible. As an amateur astronomer who presumably understands something about orbital mechanics you would know this is impossible. Nibiru is a myth invented by Sitchin.

While trying to find later variations of 'ne-be-ru', I came across this website:
TourEgypt.net
It may or may not be related, but it is an interesting similarity.

Also I would like to link everyone to Judah and the Judeans in the Persion Period, as this can reveal how 'ne-be-ru' (Akkadian) evolved with the Hebrew cognate.

It states that in Hebrew this term's equivalent was being used as a reference to "crossing" and also "pool", in the context of topography. Examples suggested include the reed marshes throughout Babylon.

I really like the idea that this word "ne-be-ru" was used in the sense "crossing", because it matches with other very similar relevent elements such as the symbol of the "cross" which dates back to this very same time period in ancient Sumeria (pre-Babylonian).

The Cross represents the Sun or Star in most instances it is commonly believed. And this puts us back at the other Ne-be-ru reference - "Star".

A hypothesis I came up with about the "Nebe-*" from the Egyptian creation myth was that possibly the "ru" was somehow split from the term and became "Ra", which refers to the Sun. I'm not sure where the Egypt tourism website got the name for the creator God from, but check out this information about Egypt history: Atum wiki

Atum's name is thought to be derived from the word 'tem' which means to complete or finish. Thus he has been interpreted as being the 'complete one' and also the finisher of the world, which he returns to watery chaos at the end of the creative cycle. As creator he was seen as the underlying substance of the world, the deities and all things being made of his flesh or alternatively being his ka.

Notice how this word "Atum" fits with "Atom" even through this metaphor, the "underlying substance of the world". Neat coincidence.

In the Heliopolitan creation myth, Atum was considered to be the first god, having created himself, sitting on a mound (benben) (or identified with the mound itself), from the primordial waters (Nu).[1] Early myths state that Atum created the god Shu and goddess Tefnut from spitting her out of his mouth.[2] In the Old Kingdom the Egyptians believed that Atum lifted the dead king's soul from his pyramid to the starry heavens.[3] He was also a solar deity, associated with the primary sun god Ra. Atum was linked specifically with the evening sun, while Ra was associated more with the morning sun.[4]

Now we see where the "Atum" associates with "Ra". I believe that Atum = Khepera because of

In arranging his thoughts and their visible forms Khepera was assisted by the goddess Maat, who is usually regarded as the goddess of law, order, and truth, and in late times was held to be the female counterpart of Thoth, "the heart of the god Ra." In this legend, however, she seems to play the part of Wisdom, as described in the Book of Proverbs, 1 for it was by Maat that he "laid the foundation." Having described the coming into being of Khepera and the place on which he stood, the legend goes on to tell of the means by which the first Egyptian triad, or trinity, came into existence. Khepera had, in some form, union with his own shadow, and so begot offspring, who proceeded from his body under the forms of the gods Shu and Tefnut. According to a tradition preserved in the Pyramid Texts 2 this event took place at On (Heliopolis)

So I think it's possible that "Ne-be-ru" could possibly have, over 3000 years, slowly evolved into
"Neber-tcher", the "Everlasting God of the Universe" who took the form of Atum/Khepera, notice that it's 'Khepe - Ra". Khepera was the older term, eventually "Ra/Re" became much more commonplace terminology.

Over time words change slowly but you can find important clues that will lead you in the right direction. Context is the key, and you can trace how various terms evolve over time.

Because of this, they also associated the Khepri with rebirth, renewal, and resurrection. Indeed, his name means "to come into being". As a result of this, when the rival cult of the sun-god Ra gained significance, Khepri was identified as the aspect of Ra which constitutes only the dawning sun (i.e. the sun when it comes into being).

This is very important as a clue because the Sun "crosses" the sky.
Oh and Atum became 'Amun' in trinity with Ra/Re and Ptah. Ptah = Neber-tcher

Trivia : Alabaster derives from Egyptian goddess Bast.

reply to post by Phage


Oh man. Star for your patience. No1 really takes up your point, just diverting to "Oh the universe is so so big...and we dont know #" attitude.

StringTh

reply to post by Phage


After digging into all sorts of offshoot languages and making connections with the roots I am convinced that "ne-be-ru" meant "star" "cross" "transit" and loosely "god" or specifically 'Jupiter the planet', depending on the context.

In ancient mythology these concepts are all intimately related and can embody the same entity which would become personified as a deity/theology/mythology system.

You can just keep double checking it and it works out really.

For example in Neo-Assyrian (Which came after Assyria which came after Babylon which came after Akkad), "Neberu" was equated with Ashur, the equivalent of the Sumerian "Enlil" which was overtaken by "Marduk" during Hammurabi's reign. The planet Jupiter was called Marduk.

The Greeks considered "Marduk" to be "Zeus", who became "Jupiter" later on in Rome, was known as "Amun/Atum" in Egypt, is referred to as "Ba'al" in Biblical texts.
All of these stories bleed directly into each other in various ways, it's interesting to examine.

All of this points to two things, the Sun and Jupiter the planet (the dim star), and the personification of the trinity mythology in countless iterations.

It's apparently closely associated with these topics if we review available scholarly data closely and critically.

A few more links :
Ashur wiki
Jupiter equivalents (mythology wiki)
skyscript.co.uk article
Bel (myth wiki)
Ba'al wiki
Marduk wiki

Also check out this chart that shows the names of the planets in various ancient languages. Double checking these things really helps solidify our conclusions.
Names of planets

And here is a link for general Chaldean (mesopotamian) Mythology

Also another thing I don't see mentioned ever is the possibility that "If the ancient Mesopotamians created reliefs depicting a dozen or so celestial objects", we could be incorrectly assuming they are all planets.

One important factor in identifying celestial objects is their "Apparent Magnitude (wiki) , or "measure of brightness".

If it isn't bright enough you simply cannot see it to identify it in the first place. And we have records indicating that Neptune the planet wasn't discovered until after the 1600's. Discovery of Neptune wiki

Neptune is invisible to the naked eye as it is too dim. Its apparent magnitude is never brighter than 7.7.

Here is a wiki list of 'brightest stars'.
V Mag column = Apparent Magnitude rating

Negative numbers are brighter, positive numbers are dimmer.

–26.74 Sun from Earth

–2.94 Maximum brightness of Jupiter[12]
–2.91 Maximum brightness of Mars[13]
5.32 Maximum brightness of Uranus[21]
7.78 Maximum brightness of Neptune[27]

But look at the "list of stars" which ranks them by brightness (app mag).

Here we have hundreds of stars brighter than Uranus and Neptune.

Could it be possible that they were placing some of the brighter stars (Sirius, Canopus, Arcturus, Vega, Rigel, etc) by accident or on purpose into these relief sculptures?

reply to post by Avalessa


You can steer the Death Star!!!! O_o

Vaguely interesting news, but that's about it.

This astronomer is coming to nebulous conclusions based on not a whole lot of facts. Other astronomers rightly say he needs a lot more proof before they would even consider a 9th planet to again be in our system, rogue or otherwise.

Nibiru imo is a myth - peddled by a guy who was a poor researcher, but a pretty good salesman of fiction. 14 books worth of fiction in fact - rolled in the dough nicely for him, I'm sure.

Funny thing about ancient civilizations - much of what they believed was religion, and really shouldn't be considered fact.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Wow.... Really good investigative work and had you not had an open mind to what you may find and or connect then this post would be void.

Mythical or not.... We cant say for sure exactly what the ancients knew or thought they knew. It was a totally different world back then. We just dont know.....

2000 years from now our Planet will have changed, the people will have changed, and language will have changed. Our life and everything within it is always changing.... Who knows what will be a myth in the future that will actually not be mythical. Lol

From what Ive gathered you are correct with my thoughts as well. Niburu may be a bright star or it may be Jupiter....

Either way .... Expect change.

who cares what it's called?If a rogue planet is floating around our solar system does it really matter what its name is?Am I missing something here?Whether its Nibiru,Tyche,or whatever isn't the point the idea that we could have a planet on the loose should be the main concern of this subject.