Planet hiding behind Neptune, page 2

for background - his astronomy doctorate was on this exact theme.

Here is the latest work published by him as coauthor.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103512001182

Icarus

Available online 3 April 2012

In Press, Corrected Proof

Explaining why the uranian satellites have equatorial prograde orbits despite the large planetary obliquity

* A. Morbidelli a,
* K. Tsiganis b,
* K. Batygin c,
* A. Crida a,
* R. Gomes d,

* a Laboratoire Lagrange, UMR7293, Université de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, CNRS, Observatoire de la Côte d’Azur, Boulevard de l’Observatoire, 06304 Nice Cedex 4, France

* b Department of Physics, Section Astrophysics, Astronomy and Mechanics, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki 54124, Greece

* c California Institute of Technology, Division of Geological & Planetary Sciences, MC 170-25 1200 E. California Blvd., Pasadena, CA 91125, United States

* d Observatório Nacional José Cristino, Rua General José Cristino 77, CEP 20921-400 Rio de Janeiro, RJ, Brazil

* Received 16 November 2011. Revised 23 March 2012. Accepted 27 March 2012. Available online 3 April 2012.

Abstract

We show that the existence of prograde equatorial satellites is consistent with a collisional tilting scenario for Uranus. In fact, if the planet was surrounded by a proto-satellite disk at the time of the tilting and a massive ring of material was temporarily placed inside the Roche radius of the planet by the collision, the proto-satellite disk would have started to precess incoherently around the equator of the planet, up to a distance greater than that of Oberon. Collisional damping would then have collapsed it into a thin equatorial disk, from which the satellites eventually formed. The fact that the orbits of the satellites are prograde requires Uranus to have had a non-negligible initial obliquity (comparable to that of Neptune) before it was finally tilted to 98°.

Keywords

* Uranus;
* Uranus, Satellites;
* Satellites, Formation;
* Satellites, Dynamics

Originally posted by blackmetalmist
reply to post by LifeInDeath

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Is it possible for this planet to end up crashing into another? Somehow being pulled by a gravitational force?

I'm inferring from what I read in the article that this astronomer thinks this planet is way far out and not in an orbit that will bring it close to any other planets. This guy's hypothesis is that there's evidence for something out there because there's been some perturbations of the small bodies in the Kupier Belt, but I don't think he's saying this is anything new. It's more akin to seeing evidence of the existence of Neptune before it was seen because of the perturbations Neptune causes on Uranus.

In theory could a planet do such a thing? Yes, it's possible. Right now it's thought that as solar systems form there is some migration that can go on among planets into different orbits, especially early on in its development. In a young solar system there's far more planets whizzing around, probably hundreds of them, so there's a lot more gravitational tugging and pulling and planets actually banging into each other, which over time form bigger and bigger planets as they combine. We think a planet about the size of Mars may have hit the Earth early on leading to the formation of the Moon (still just a theory, one with some holes in it, but most of the physics works pretty well for this). Most of Earth Mk1 and this Mars-sized body became fused together into the Earth we know, with the Moon forming from the debris. However, it's possible such a planet formed in the same orbit as the Earth, perhaps at one of the Lagrange points, and eventually found itself in a somewhat faster orbit, catching up with the Earth and hitting it. At this late a stage in our solar systems development such a thing is very unlikely.

In the whole history of the galaxy has a rogue planet flown into a solar system and smacked into a planet? I'd say maybe, however I think the likelihood of it happening much more than once is probably vanishingly small. Space is just made up of so much...space, that such events would be rare beyond imagining. It would be like two people standing a half a mile apart, shooting bullets randomly into the air and those two bullets actually hitting each other mid-flight. In fact, space is so vast that might be overstating the odds a bit.

When you talk about planets in the same solar system getting tugged out of orbit and eventually hitting other worlds, that's actually a more likely event because planets generally form on the same plane from a proto-planetary disc as the star forms, so if one starts migrating into a new orbit (as we think can happen), it has a very good chance of eventually migrating into the orbit of another world on the same plane. If it's a big, gas giant that does this, it's going to be even more likely to gobble up worlds as it moves in or out from where it started.

reply to post by LifeInDeath

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You know physics, and astronomy...

Is there any evidence of a yet unknown gravitational influence on outside planets?

Is there a chance of a nemesis star, as a companion to our star.?

I keep having dreams...

Is there anything in the Oort cloud that is acting funny?





I have so many questions, and NO answers...

I get to start my astronomy class in a couple days.

reply to post by bjarneorn

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None of the planets' orbits are being disturbed.
Gomes bases his hypothesis on the observation that 6 out of 92 objects (not planets) in the Kuiper belt have elongated orbits. It has been known for some time that this is the case.

An unknown body is one of several explanations for these elongated orbits.

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by LifeInDeath

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You know physics, and astronomy...

I read a lot about astronomy, all the time, which is why I know about it. When it comes to the actual math and physics I usually turn to one of my good friends who is an astrophysicist/college professor when I have questions because it's not my forte. I don't pretend to be an expert, but I try to stay informed because it's just about the most fascinating subject there is to me.

Is there any evidence of a yet unknown gravitational influence on outside planets?

Well, if there was evidence we'd know about the influence, right? I'm not sure what you mean by "outside planets." The outer planets like Neptune and Uranus? The dwarf planets in the Kupier belt? Extra-solar planets? Just not clear.

Is there a chance of a nemesis star, as a companion to our star.?

If it exists, it's probably to be found in the WISE data, which is all now available. Sorting through all of that data to find it, if it exists, may yet take a while. At this point the chances of it existing and so far avoiding detection are increasingly slim, it's running out of places to hide. That being said, the debate is still on the table. The thing is, the closer an object is, the easier it is for WISE to detect, and WISE has so far found a lot of objects much farther away than where Nemesis would lie.

Is there anything in the Oort cloud that is acting funny?

Funny how?

reply to post by Phage

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Also
Isn't Niburu sopposed to be a dwarf star ? I don't think this would qualify as Niburu if it's a planet. I think the mainstream is guilty of so much fear mongering. Just the same thanks to OP for jumping up and bringing this forward.

reply to post by randyvs

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Isn't Niburu sopposed to be a dwarf star ?

Planet, brown dwarf, black dwarf, spaceship. Depends on how much you want it to exist. Depends on how hard you try to make it fit.

reply to post by Phage

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Not me Phage. I've seen to many having fits trying to make it fit.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Phage

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Also
Isn't Niburu sopposed to be a dwarf star ? I don't think this would qualify as Niburu if it's a planet. I think the mainstream is guilty of so much fear mongering. Just the same thanks to OP for jumping up and bringing this forward.

My theory? It's Galactus, Devourer of Worlds.

reply to post by blackmetalmist

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Well theres a surprise they are now saying there is a planet in our solar system and guess what its going to be called nibiru mainstream media make me sick we knew about it for ages

reply to post by Somethingintheclouds

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Well theres a surprise they are now saying there is a planet in our solar system

Actually there are eight planets that we know of.
There may be others but no one has managed to find one yet.

Originally posted by Somethingintheclouds
reply to post by blackmetalmist

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Well theres a surprise they are now saying there is a planet in our solar system and guess what its going to be called nibiru mainstream media make me sick we knew about it for ages

Really? Thats all we need, them naming the planet Nibiru. Oh geesh.

reply to post by LifeInDeath

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That's a cool pic life. So now we even have an actual persona as a theory. Kewwwwwwwwwwl.

Originally posted by freakjive
I cannot comment on the Niburu thing, as I don't know.

However, I must commend you for abandoning the sensationalist title from MSN when you posted!

Original Title:

Secret rogue planet may be hiding behind Neptune

It was posted in another thread referencing to the article headline......

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LifeInDeath

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Just to maintain the 'fight ignorance' mentality I wanted to inform you that you are assisting in spreading a myth debunked many years ago.
Because of strange behavior in the orbits of the outer planets astronomers at one time suspected there might be another planet at the edge of our solar system so they sat down with a copy of Newton's rules, pen, paper and rulers and attempted to figure out where it was.
There were astronomers who deduced there was no planet.
Others claimed there was one
Still others claimed two or more
Like an army of psychics who had collectively predicted every day of the year for a particular event to occur, they were in a position where they could not miss.
They found Neptune
They hoisted the astronomer who had predicted 'one planet' up on their shoulders and marched him around while shouting out praises to the glory of science capable of finding a planet through mathematical calculations alone.
Isn't science great?
It turns out though that that particular astronomer who made the 'one planet' prediction pointed out that Neptune was so far off from where his calculations had predicted it would be that it could not possibly be the planet his calculations were referring to.
The geeks though had come to enjoy strutting around bragging about how bright they were so they decided that this last fact should just be omitted from the history books when this was taught in schools.
That Neptune was discovered through calculation rather than a telescope is a myth. You don't think the world has outgrown it's need for such things?
Just curious

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