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Why Cops Fear-WARNING-As disturbing as Kelly Thomas video X 10

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posted on May, 15 2012 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by real1tys8
reply to post by AzraelBane

what did peace and respect got you innocent people of usa nothing. the only way to deal with violence is with violence. it is the only thing those type understand. they do not do nice.

it's exactly that type of closed minded thinking that sets the human race back further than your mind can obviously comprehend. i'm not saying don't fight back if you were paying any kind of attention. what i'm saying is that in order to still call ourselves human we must not stoop to their level of SENSELESS violence. defending yourself is one thing but open murder is something that cannot be tolerated. especially since they are still people any way you slice it. misguided,egotistical, power hungry, bat-$4!7 insane people. but at the core still people nonetheless and as such should be allowed the option of returning to that practice before completely writing them off.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 04:37 PM

Originally posted by sirric
Just chiming in,

As some here already know, I'm a former LEO that was not part of the blue wall and was in fact hated for my views about our code of conduct, sufficed to say, I was IA and none too liked because of it. I lived in the minority and was a very good Police Officer when I was in.

This video is indicative of the reason I left. I could not bear working with these monsters any further. It caused me to loose my health and sanity trying to cope with the utter corruption prevalent within the police force across all boards.

YES, the Blue Wall is very strong and code of silence COS is a golden rule no one shall break.

I'm ashamed I ever thought the police were there to protect and serve, if so it was only for their benefit.

Just to add, all these recent cop on cop altercations are nothing more than the infighting that starts when one gang goes after another gang about territory.


edit on 14/5/12 by sirric because: add


When a cop is backing up a police brutality thread, especially one who was in IA...

You don't really have much of an arguement at that point........

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 04:53 PM
First I worked hand in hand with many cops being head of rescue, then retired, most were just good people. Then I went up against one that had a side job and his personality came out. I will leave out where I am from for I still fear this full time state cop. And yes, I carry now due to this fear.

In his side job, he got to play power games with folks wanting to build homes and such. Ten years after having a cabin, he changed his mind and wanted it removed as he considered I tricked him in the beginning even though he had all the blue prints but tried valiantly to hide the records.

The short of it is, he tried to beat me up a few years ago at our last meeting when his true personality came out, my wife stepped in as I am disabled and was recovering from surgery at the time. So later he spread lies and had the township take us to court. Ultimately we had to cave in and we will tear down our little place as he, and the courts whom are also crooked here were rapidly bankrupting us. Know this, stand up to some of these guys and you will be attacked on many levels and the courts for the most part are part of this biggest gang in town. I remember the Judge whom threw out all our rights saying, we local governing agencies need to stand together and then commenced to present a new rule which he ordered I needed to comply to retroactively. Yes, I could have beat this had I been very wealthy. Nuff said, this was a rude awakening, there is no rights unless you are rich enough to pursue those rights.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 05:15 PM
reply to post by AzraelBane

its self defense if i shoot the !kers. if they endanger my life. every one of the people in that video had the right to do the the same. it is my right to defend myself. you know a police state is coming. you obviously have no f ing idea what that is like to live in one, I do i grew up in one. i lost a parent and a sister to the regime. i will rather die fighting to prevent living that way again. i do not wish that for my worse enemy. it is not to late to change the status quo in your country but if you wait till it is too late well yeah then no gun can help you unless you turn it on yourself.

pray you never find out what is living in a police state is like.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 05:53 PM
reply to post by abeverage

Many cities have actually set up civilian oversight panels to help police the police. If people are so concerned about the issue maybe they should push for similar panels in their town and county. People can still exert influence through the ballot box on the local level.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 06:16 PM

Originally posted by real1tys8
reply to post by AzraelBane

its self defense if i shoot the !kers. if they endanger my life. every one of the people in that video had the right to do the the same. it is my right to defend myself. you know a police state is coming. you obviously have no f ing idea what that is like to live in one, I do i grew up in one. i lost a parent and a sister to the regime. i will rather die fighting to prevent living that way again. i do not wish that for my worse enemy. it is not to late to change the status quo in your country but if you wait till it is too late well yeah then no gun can help you unless you turn it on yourself.

pray you never find out what is living in a police state is like.

first off when they are using "non lethal" weaponry and your response to this is to bring out lethal weaponry before them guess who is gonna be painted as the villain?
only a coward would resort to using a gun as their first line of defense,speaking from personal experience there have been several occasions throughout my life where I have been physically threatened or attacked and the parties involved had weaponry, two of which involved them pulling a gun out most involved people trying to use knives. just a side note here before I continue, at all times I carry a knife and a gun just in case there is someone one day that has the notion of trying to attack me from a distance I cannot close in the time it would take them to carry out said attack, now back to my point, in every case that I have been attacked take a wild guess as to how many times i've drawn said weapons....if you guessed 0 you would be correct. not only have I managed to subdue the attacker(s) but I took their weapons from them without causing them serious permanent harm or death. the shoot first and ask questions later crowd are the ones who drip fear from every pore. in a situation like that it is not only important to keep a level head to accurately analyze whats going on but also important to not lose your cool and become a victim of panic. whats the matter you afraid of a hand to hand confrontation? seriously I hope you can search deep within yourself and find the ghostly outline of where your balls used to be. I have no idea what it's like to live in a police state huh? considering you don't even live in this country and have obviously never spent any kind of time here let me take this opportunity to inform you. we ARE living in a police state. in fact...since you don't seem to have the capacity to do so yourself i'll do you a favor

the fact that they come out armed in the first place suggests they are running on pure fear and as such will not think of things in a level headed fashion. as a result of that when you start using tactics that take away their ability to use such weaponry not only do you stop them without a loss of life occurring,which is what they are supposed to do in the first place, but you keep yourself from becoming what you hate a cold ruthless murderer and becoming that is what fuels their fear in the first place. so please go ahead add gas to their fire instead of smothering it completely. I promise i'll still be here when you are rotting in a cell somewhere because you decided to do EXACTLY the same things that they are doing

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Propogandor

Originally posted by AzureSky

If a police officer ever touches me without a warrant or probable cause, i am going to destroy them.

What if it's a first responder pulling you from a burning car?

Did you miss the part in the OP's video with the guy who managed to pull himself from the burning car? He may well have been better off staying in the car as it burned.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 06:56 PM
Maybe if LE were not allowed to carry a weapon the first couple years they are on the
force and learn how to negotiate first....that might be a good deterrent. It'd make the
psychopaths think twice about joining the police department.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 08:30 PM
Toward the end of that video, someone please tell me that was not real. Where the police line up at the park where people are relaxing and chilling out and just take over and start arresting people. I hope that was from documentary because that was unreal.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 09:07 PM
I happen to have first hand experience with this. I've had the opportunity to BE a victim of police brutality. Let me explain how this works for those of you that haven't:

01. You are stopped for a minor traffic infraction. (I was sitting in my car chatting with a friend waiting for a tow truck, my battery died--I wasn't even driving when I was 'pulled over').

02. You are approached by a police officer. You ask for said officer to provide probable cause for this confrontation as such: "why am I being detained?".

03. Police officer gets offended that you would EVER ask a cop a question, heaven forbid, especially ask a question such as "excuse me, but why are you detaining me without cause?" they seemingly take this as a disregard for their "authority".

04. Cop 'asks' you to get out of the car. You refuse. Cop demands you get out of the car and places one hand on her/his gun holster. You roll up your window, pull your keys from the ignition, throw them in the back seat, and lock the door behind you as you step out. (cop notices and gets offended, or you get lucky and cop does not notice).

05. Cop asks if he/she can search your car. You refuse. Cop calls in for a K-9 unit. K-9 unit is 'too busy'. Cop begins searching your car while you are handcuffed on the sidewalk shouting in verbal protest.

06. Cop finds "whatever cop removed from his/her pocket, set in your car, and pretended to find.".

07. You go to jail.

Moral of the story? Get smarter friends. (let's test your skills of observation.)

Phase II.

01. You spend your Friday night behind bars at the local mudpit. Get transferred in the morning to the 'county' mudpit.

02. You spend the next 18 hours of your life in whatever clothing you happened to be wearing during your arrest, being rotated from one # & piss covered freezing cold 8x6 concrete cell shoulder to shoulder standing packed like sardines in a tin can with strangers... to another # & piss covered freezing cold even SMALLER cell packed with even MORE people, taking note of signs that say "maximum capacity: 8 persons" counting 40 or so persons in the room.

03. Every chance you get you try to plead with the officers to put you in a separate cell or demand medical attention because you have two broken ribs (and had them prior to your arrest) -- you are ignored.

04. A few more hours into this, you encounter another deputy and inform him that you are epileptic and have epic uncontrollable seizures when you don't get your medication every 8 hours, and you haven't had it for 24 hours. (your thanking god you haven't started seizing yet.) -- you are laughed at.

05. every hour feels like a month, and you wonder if this is some sick joke--your curiosity is easily confirmed when deputies coming on duty for the next shift press their faces up against the small glass window on the door and make funny faces to # with you--you think perhaps this whole rotation from small cell to smaller cell is like some kind of clown-car circus bet thing the bored deputies do to pass time, you know like that Guinness record where they pack 50 people in a phone booth? (yes, its THAT cramped, far worse actually, there is literally no room to sit, no air left to breathe for 18 or so hours--in retrospect I'm a bit thankful for this crowding as I eventually did have two seizures waiting to be given 'bedding' and I was literally held up from falling to the concrete floor by all of the people crowded around me).

06, Eventually you are forced to strip naked and take a cold shower in front of all the other inmates being booked & the deputies--the deputies watch you strip down, ask you to spread your ass cheeks and bend over and touch your toes, make lewd comments about the mass of your genitalia, etc. (luckily genetics spared me this bit of humiliation.)

07. You are eventually thrown into a "dorm" of about 50 people full of bunk beds two single showers and 5 toilets. Immediately you are approached by a large white guy with neo-nazi tat's all over his upper chest and examined closely.. he proclaims "you a malato 'n-word' or are you white boy?" you reply "I'm American." he replies "alright your with us over here by the showers."

08. Now 36 hours into your detention, you begin to enter into withdrawals as ALL of or ANY of your legally prescribed medications are being refused. After a while of shivering in withdrawal you figure f* it, and strip naked and turn on the shower... at this time the large nazi spots you, mentions that he "likes what he see's" and proceeds to warn you about "the thick layer of (slippery stuff) the shower floor is lined with, and lets you borrow his sandals to shower. (next to garbage).

09. You begin showering, minutes later you wake up on the floor covered in semen hanging naked half out the shower door screaming in pain--you had a seizure, fell, and shattered your arm, awesome. You yell for medical help, an intercom chimes in and you hear laughter.

Shall I continue? PS, Orange County, CA.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 09:27 PM
reply to post by SulucOhmun

You eventually get thrown into a 6 x 6 cell (solitary confinement) with NOTHING to read, no stimulation, the lights do not turn off at night.

You are denied medical attention, there is an intercom--apparently this is what they do with "sick or hurt people". You press the intercom over and over, each time begging & crying to a stranger on the other end that you have two broken ribs, a shattered arm, and are having uncontrollable fits of epilepsy, 100 or so button presses in you realize they don't give the first f*k at all, and just go sit in a corner trembling.

You wake up in said corner, have no idea if you were asleep for a minute or a month but you are just praying that it is morning, what seems like an eternity passes until your suspicions of morning are confirmed--food slides through a tray in the door, it closes shut quickly. You run up to the intercom praying someone else is on duty, and again beg, crying, for some medical aid, after 5 or so tries, being refused, the door to your cell opens.

A deputy says "lets go to medical", waiting on a bench a lady from "mental health" "upstairs" walks up and asks "are you ()*)(@*@()*@" you reply yes. She sits next to you and explains to you that if you press the button for medical attention one more time, that you will be sent upstairs, where you will be strapped down to a table, not let loose to eat, and pumped full of tranquilizers if you make a fuss. You apologize--and you f*ing mean it too.

You are dragged back to your tiny cell, the door slams shut behind you. As the door is being shut the deputy says in a mocking tone "I hope you enjoyed your hour of sanitary and wreck time in the wreck room".

You count 12 meals pass, with no clock and no indication of daylight you count by meals. After about the second day you pretty much think you have completely lost your mind, and wonder how you could ever return to sanity after this experience. The rotting food trash keeps piling up in your cell.

Eventually days later the door opens, and the deputies escort you to speak with your attorney, five minutes prior to your "quick and speedy trial".

Your attorney (a public defender) laughs at the evidence and says to you "look, they don't have any REAL evidence against you, I RARELY get a case I can win, please plead not guilty". You inform her that you are in incredible amounts of pain and want to accept their "drug program" plea bargain so you can get out of this hell hole and get to an emergency room. She helps you fill out the papers.

Your put in another cell, this time it is a 10x10 with about 200 people in it. You stay there for about 8 hours until you get called into a tiny court room to plead guilty. (they don't hear not guilty pleas here, if you plead not guilty you get to stay in jail for a few months waiting for a trial, at the time I honestly thought I'd be dead by then.)

After this, you are dragged back to your cell. 8 hours later at midnight you are processed out and set free. You beg your mother or father to drive you to the emergency room--get diagnosed with a completely shattered arm, two shattered ribs, one of which is in a position to puncture your left lung. You get pumped full of pain medication, get treatment, go home, go to sleep, wake up, and pray that it was all just a nightmare..

(it wasn't a dream..)

A few months later you go to court, get royally #ed over by a judge, get sentenced to GOVERNMENT mandated religion (its called alcoholics anonymous--I am an atheist, I am still an atheist years later, and I have never been a problem drug addict etc, outside of this, I haven't even had a single parking ticket.)

Oh, it goes on... a month into your "drug program" your in the middle of a 'diversion meeting' and a large black protestant preacher asks you why you are "not filling out the paperwork he just passed around the room", you explain to him that your hand is shattered and you cant. He kicks you out of the program, and you get a violation of probation.

I'll stop now, I think you all get the picture.

If you have made it this far, I'd like you to consider (that is if your an American citizen), that your tax dollars paid for my lovely adventure.

That's all,

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 09:35 PM

Originally posted by orbitbaby
This is an extremely disturbing compilation of police brutality across Amerika.
We've all seen plenty of those. But this one also includes several clips from a
non-profit organization called The Police Complaint Center that conducts
undercover tests of police departments across the country. The tester's are
ex-cops that ask one simple question: How do I file a complaint?
What follows will shock you. Or maybe not. It left me shaking.

This is just wrong on so many levels. What is happening to our police?
How can they justify these things? How do they sleep at night?
I know there are still good ones out there but this Code of Silence b.s.
is turning even the good ones into criminals.

Warning: Keep a clear path to the porcelain god if you've had your breakfast
already this morning.

Simply amazing, cops have been doing alot of stuff over the decades and it's even spreading over into the middle class from the black and poor areas of the cities.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 09:45 PM
reply to post by SulucOhmun

Your attorney (a public defender) laughs at the evidence and says to you "look, they don't have any REAL evidence against you, I RARELY get a case I can win, please plead not guilty". You inform her that you are in incredible amounts of pain and want to accept their "drug program" plea bargain so you can get out of this hell hole and get to an emergency room. She helps you fill out the papers.

You were a victim by choice. I don't know what made you think surrendering to the state would make your life easier than standing tall and fighting this, but that is the choice you made. You agreed to be drawn into their system, and now you want to complain that it just kept getting worse for you.

I don't know what you hoped to convey with your posts, but I hope anyone reading them and this post understands that agreeing to a plea bargain when you're claiming innocence puts an immediate end to the innocence. People have a choice, they can be victims, or they can be warrior poets and defenders of their own liberty.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 09:54 PM
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I had a legal right to 1 hour of time to shower for every 24 hours locked in solitary confinement covered in my own filth, in a room full of garbage.

I had a legal right to 'reasonable medical care' defined as: "the minimum amount of care a reasonable human being would expect to get if they were not being detained".

Had I been given either of these RIGHTS, I would have gladly stayed in solitary for 3 months just to plead not guilty and fight this case.

I happen to have a few pretty serious health problems, two of which require medication daily, one of which can and will easily kill me if I do not take said medication.

I'm sorry if you think that I "gave up my rights" because I plead guilty. As far as I am aware, I SHOULD have had the right to be *assumed innocent until proven guilty in a trial of my peers--correct? so, the assumption is, that this is how our government treats innocent people?

Seriously, think about what your saying before you say it.

California courts are currently under FEDERAL supervision for medical negligence--that's how bad it is in my state, I just got caught up in it, and happen to have a few genuinely serious medical problems.

One month before I was booked into "county jail", a pregnant woman and her fetus died from medical negligence at the same county jail, in the female part of the SAME ward I was in, staffed by the same persons.
edit on 15-5-2012 by SulucOhmun because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:02 PM
reply to post by SulucOhmun

Don't cry to me about your legal rights, brother. I've spent years dismissing legal rights for what they are, and as many years preaching unalienable rights, which is what you should have been defending all along. Assuming your story of arrest is true, and I am certainly willing to accept that story as true, then you had unalienable rights violated long before you were brought to jail. Why the hell are you yammering on about your legal rights to shower and medical attention?

If your story of unlawful arrest is true, you had the right - an unalienable right - to a redress of grievances. You had the unalienable right to demand justice, but you pissed all of that away the moment you took the plea bargain.

Do not ask me, brother, to cry for your legal rights. Do not ask me to cry for the unalienable rights you don't even give a damn about!

The fact of the matter is that jurisdiction can be challenged at any time, and you could still make a case of this, instead of demanding people feel guilty over your victimology. You did surrender your rights.

Fighting for rights is rarely a cake walk. Anyone who doesn't have the temerity to do so, I fully understand. What I don't understand is why they would then expect sympathy for their surrender of their rights. If you do not want to fight for your rights, then don't. Why are you belaboring that point, is my question.

edit on 15-5-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:09 PM
Now that I've done my fair share of complaining, I'll opt in with a few things I think could have helped my situation.

Any organized body governed from within of and by itself is not responsible to anyone but those in said organized body. This is one of the major contributing factors I think allows police misconduct to take place.

We need a non-profit tax-funded NON GOVERNMENT organization organized for the sole purpose of police oversight.

Our peace officers must be held to, at minimum, the SAME legal standard the average citizen is held too--personally, I think being that it is an officer of the law's duty to KNOW the law, you can not ENFORCE IT if you are not AWARE OF IT--we should hold officers of the law found intentionally guilty of a violent crime while on duty to the HIGHEST standard, the HIGHEST fees, and the MAXIMUM punishment allowed by law.

It seems that the majority of the time, they don't even get the MINIMUM allowable sentencing. I'm going to wager that a judge might make such a decision out of FEAR, assuming it is not a jury trial--it rarely ever is in these instances.

But I'm not a law student--yet. If you know better then I the intricacies of the legal system, and why such things usually end up playing out that way, I'd absolutely love to get informed!

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:16 PM
reply to post by SulucOhmun

Now that the fair share of complaining is done, I will opt in with my own opinions

It is now, as it has always been, We the People who hold the inherent political power. This is born out by every single State Constitution in the nation, and if we live in a police state we do so because we've allowed it to happen, and the only way out of this mess is the same way we got into it, by each of us as individuals accepting our responsibility for holding those accountable who have violated our rights, and if it is government their oath of office.

We do not need groups to fix this problem, and groups will not. We need individuals willing to file verified complaints against the offending officers, and to demand justice be put in. This takes courage and it takes understanding the law, but it is the only way.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:21 PM
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I understand what you are saying, and, I'd probably come to the same conclusion if I were to step outside of myself and read back my last few posts.

I honestly could not take the physical pain I was in at that time--any longer, at that moment of decision, I honestly felt like I'd be dead if I opted to spend 3 months in custody receiving that same level of 'medical attention'.

I actually did hire an attorney and go after the city with a motion for a civil suit. Said attorney filed some sort of grievance with the city, the city responded to him informing him that because it had been 30 days since the date of (said) incident, my legal rights to dispute pretty much anything had been forfeit. (as far as civil complaints/disputes), now, in relation to my guilty-plea, I had that same attorney attempt to get this guilty plea overturned at my arraignment, or at the least, the case thrown out for lack of evidence--(the arrest document cited possession of a controlled substance, however, no chemical analysis was performed and no weight or amount was given! I was drug tested and was NEGATIVE for illegal substances also, etc.), neither of these things happened--the judge upheld my guilty plea anyway, and I was sentenced to "diversion". That little adventure cost me five thousand dollars!

Now what your saying basically is, if I were a "true patriot" or "true freedom fighter" I would of put up with any amount of physical pain irregardless? or I would have risked potential death? perhaps you are right, perhaps in this situation you might have faired better than I.

In retrospect, these rights really only exist so long as there ARE people left willing to defend them with their very own lives.

I agree with that.

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
Your Rights as a U.S. Citizen Against Unlawful Arrest ..........

“Citizens may resist Unlawful arrest to the point of taking an officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S., 529. The court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense was commited.”

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. If the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh V. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. 1; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260.

“Each Person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, ther person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self defense.” State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100.

“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910.

“The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.”
Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol. 2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197.

I am sure some Police Officers in this Country are Unaware about these Court Decisions when Overstepping their Authority . People who know the Law should Remind them about it from Time to Time for the sake of their Own Safety . The Woman in this Video was Intimidated by that Police Officer because she was just Not Aware of her Rights and Cow Downed to his Intimidation of her Ignorance . She should take this matter to a Lawyer Immediately and press charges against him IMO .

posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:23 PM
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I think what you are failing to realize is that he was faced with the choice of cop a plea and get to his needed medication or fight it and risk being in jail for several months awaiting trial and risk death not having it

that's like saying sure you can fight it, but while you wait to do so we're just going to suck all the air out of the room you are trapped in because that's our policy. rights, unalienable or legal only really factor into the equation if they aren't forcing you to make a choice for your health against your freedom

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