9/11: The WTC Elevator Key

Originally posted by intrptr

And you say the explosions in the basements were caused by...?

Err... explosives, maybe?





Fuel falling down shafts and exploding is just ludicrous. Especially if it happened before the planes hit. But anyway fuel just doesn't act like that, so I am more inclined to believe the witnesses in this case.

reply to post by maxella1


Firefighters use the elevators for specific reason - rapid access to the fire.....

Trying to walk up the stairs in a high raise/skyscraper is a exhausting time consuming situation

One - your basic gear (bunker pants/coat, helmet, boots, SCBA) weighs about 60 lbs

in addition are probably carrying another 30+ lbs in tools/equipment for load of almost 100 lbs

Two - Firefighting gear is designed to resist heat, it also traps body heat leading to heat exhaustion/stroke
Seen numerous crew members carted off to hospital with dehydration/heat exhaustion

Been there/done that.....

At one fire couple years ago had fire in elevator motor room - had to walk 10 floors. Brutal.......

Three - walking consumes lot of time FDNY rule of thumb is 1 floor/min. This includes rest stops

The stairs at WTC (there were 3) were narrow. Outboard (A & C) stairs only 44 inches wide, Barely enough
for 2 people to pass, B Stair in middle 56 inches. In addition stairs were crowded with people evacuating the
building, slowly ascent

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by maxella1

 

And they used the elevators in WTC on 9/11.

Correction - They used ONE elevator on 9/11. It was freight elevator which ran to 41 st floor of South Tower

Battalion Chief Orio Palmer found that it was still operable and used it to go up and signalled crew from Ladder 15
to follow him up in it. Cut distance to walk to impact zone on 78 floor in half

Chief Palmer had served in that part of Manhattan and knew the Trade Center and its systems

Palmer was also onr of the smartest men on the FDNY with a degree in electrical engineering

What an honor to be corrected by the one and only Mr. Firefighter/Secret Service/Aviation/Engineer/Secret Spy specialist himself. Did I forget anything?

Not that I believe the 9/11 Commission Report, but it seems to disagree with you. You should correct them, they will appreciate it I'm sure.

p.316 Firefighters found the stairways they entered intact, lit, and clear of smoke. Unbeknownst to the lobby command post, one battalion chief in the North Tower found a working elevator,which he took to the 16th floor before beginning to climb.112 p.317 A battalion chief and a ladder company found a working elevator to the 40th floor and from there proceeded to climb stairwell B. Another ladder company arrived soon thereafter, and began to rescue civilians trapped in an elevator between the first and second floors. The senior chief in the lobby expressed frustration about the lack of units he initially had at his disposal for South Tower operations.120 p.319 Feeling satisfied with the scope of the operation in the Marriott, the chief in the lobby there directed some units to proceed to what he thought was the South Tower. In fact,he pointed them to the North Tower. Three of the FDNY companies who had entered the North Tower from the Marriott found a working elevator in a bank at the south end of the lobby, which they took to the 23rd floor.127

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by maxella1

 

Firefighters use the elevators for specific reason - rapid access to the fire.....

Trying to walk up the stairs in a high raise/skyscraper is a exhausting time consuming situation

One - your basic gear (bunker pants/coat, helmet, boots, SCBA) weighs about 60 lbs

in addition are probably carrying another 30+ lbs in tools/equipment for load of almost 100 lbs

Two - Firefighting gear is designed to resist heat, it also traps body heat leading to heat exhaustion/stroke
Seen numerous crew members carted off to hospital with dehydration/heat exhaustion

Been there/done that.....

At one fire couple years ago had fire in elevator motor room - had to walk 10 floors. Brutal.......

Three - walking consumes lot of time FDNY rule of thumb is 1 floor/min. This includes rest stops

The stairs at WTC (there were 3) were narrow. Outboard (A & C) stairs only 44 inches wide, Barely enough
for 2 people to pass, B Stair in middle 56 inches. In addition stairs were crowded with people evacuating the
building, slowly ascent

What is your point?

reply to post by ANOK

Err... explosives, maybe?

Maybe? I thought you were so sure about that. But I said I would listen so... why were there explosives in the basement?

reply to post by maxella1


Point is you dont have a clue on how firefighting works

Should stick to mommy's basement

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by kdog1982

 

In 1945 a B25 bomber lost in fog crashed into Empire State Build at 78th floor

One of the elevators crashed into the basement from the damage - there were 3 people on board

All survived

For each tragic death there was an amazing survival story to match it. The most incredible tale of survival belonged to a 20-year-old elevator operator named Betty Lou Oliver. Oliver had just opened the door to her elevator as the blast occurred. The explosion threw Oliver across the hall where she was found by two other women. Badly burned, Oliver was treated with first aid by these women and helped into another elevator in order to reach additional medical care. As the elevator descended the cables snapped and the elevator began to plummet towards the ground. An emergency hydraulic braking system slowed the plunging car as severed cables acted like a coiled spring to slow the elevator to a less sudden halt at impact with the ground. All of the women were injured and shaken up, but still alive. At ground level they were helped immediately by Coast Guard first aid pharmacists (Scott, 2007). Figure 7 shows a photograph taken on July 28, 1945 in the Empire State Building. In the photograph a woman is being helped by the Coast Guard and other nurses.

failures.wikispaces.com...

That is how the elevators work. “An emergency hydraulic braking system slowed the plunging car as severed cables acted like a coiled spring to slow the elevator to a less sudden halt at impact with the ground”

What's your point?
What if you were on an elevator and the cable broke?

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by maxella1

 

Point is you dont have a clue on how firefighting works

Should stick to mommy's basement

Educate me.

reply to post by maxella1

Jesus H. I mean come one. Rule 1 when in any building that has a lift (elevator) and there is ANYTHING wrong:

DO NOT USE THE LIFT.

DUh!

Honestly talk about Darwinism at work here........

reply to post by ANOK


That first video labeled "Explosion Before Planes Hit" is a joke. It is obvious that the plane already hit the tower, hence the reason for the evacuation. Typical conspiracy theorists twisting and cutting film to support their arguments.

Originally posted by yorkshirelad
reply to post by maxella1

 

Jesus H. I mean come one. Rule 1 when in any building that has a lift (elevator) and there is ANYTHING wrong:

DO NOT USE THE LIFT.

DUh!

Honestly talk about Darwinism at work here........

Noted.

reply to post by maxella1


I am trying - which accounts for long post on why FF attempt to use elevators

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by maxella1

 

I am trying - which accounts for long post on why FF attempt to use elevators

I hope you are a better Firefighter/Secret Service/Aviation/Engineer/Secret Spy than you are an educator.

Cause you suck, no offense intended.

reply to post by thedman


I believe ATS should start instituting an age requirement or maturity level that is conducive to civil discussion. Trolling and childish behavior should be treated as harshly as a break in T&C.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by thedman

 

I believe ATS should start instituting an age requirement or maturity level that is conducive to civil discussion. Trolling and childish behavior should be treated as harshly as a break in T&C.

I'm with you on this one.

reply to post by maxella1

I know there are all kind of safety devices for elevators. Except maybe unless a bazillion pounds of flaming airplane slams into it? See you got the "safety rating" and then you got the "what it is". Heres an account of what happened when that B25 hit the Empire State:

In fact, prior to the September 11th terrorist attacks, the only known free-fall incident in a modern cable-borne elevator happened in 1945 when a B-25 bomber struck the Empire State Building in fog, severing the cables of an elevator cab, which fell from the 75th floor all the way to the bottom of the building, seriously injuring (though not killing) the sole occupant — the female elevator operator.
en.wikipedia.org...

I think less fuel was involved there. On 911 the waterfall of jet fuel aerosol may have contributed to any explosions. Fuel vapor explosions in confined spaces (like an elevator shaft) would be well... explosive. All the way to the ground or basement or lobby, whatever.

Ok,got to about 18 minutes into the video.
I'm done with this nonsense.

Totally heavily edited and misinformed.




Ya'll have fun with this one.

I will be polite and not say what I think of those who agree with this video.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by maxella1

 

I know there are all kind of safety devices for elevators. Except maybe unless a bazillion pounds of flaming airplane slams into it? See you got the "safety rating" and then you got the "what it is". Heres an account of what happened when that B25 hit the Empire State:

In fact, prior to the September 11th terrorist attacks, the only known free-fall incident in a modern cable-borne elevator happened in 1945 when a B-25 bomber struck the Empire State Building in fog, severing the cables of an elevator cab, which fell from the 75th floor all the way to the bottom of the building, seriously injuring (though not killing) the sole occupant — the female elevator operator.
en.wikipedia.org...

I think less fuel was involved there. On 911 the waterfall of jet fuel aerosol may have contributed to any explosions. Fuel vapor explosions in confined spaces (like an elevator shaft) would be well... explosive. All the way to the ground or basement or lobby, whatever.

What is your point?

What happened to the 22nd floor?

Originally posted by kdog1982
Ok,got to about 18 minutes into the video.
I'm done with this nonsense.

Totally heavily edited and misinformed.

Ya'll have fun with this one.

I will be polite and not say what I think of those who agree with this video.

What heavily edited and misinformed part did you see in the 18 minutes?

reply to post by intrptr

On 911 the waterfall of jet fuel aerosol may have contributed to any explosions.

This jet fuel?