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Subatomic particles have free will

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posted on May, 13 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Subatomic particles have free will... your argument is invalid.

A subatomic particle such as an electron for example can not be measured accurately according to the Uncertainty Principle. Its position can only be expressed using a probability distribution, and its future position can only be expressed using a probability distribution. We can never know for sure what an electron is doing, so it must be acting of its own accord. Therefore--oh my God--electrons have free will.

Magical thinking at its finest.




posted on May, 13 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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If it is bound by its parameters that you just stated, it is free will within a specific parameter. Henceforth quantified free will, aka not really free will.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by chadderson
 

As opposed to... ?



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Tadeusz
 

Here we go again, I thought, but it seems your intent is satirical – unlike the originator of the linked thread, who has since been banned for (I suspect) obsessive trollage here and elsewhere.

You certainly have nailed the central leap of illogic:


We can never know for sure what an electron is doing, so it must be acting of its own accord. Therefore--oh my God--electrons have free will.

You're right: that certainly is


magical thinking at its finest.



On a not-unrelated note, I wonder what happened to our favourite quantum-woo warrior, Matrix Rising? He hasn't visited ATS since February.



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Tadeusz
Subatomic particles have free will... your argument is invalid.

A subatomic particle such as an electron for example can not be measured accurately according to the Uncertainty Principle. Its position can only be expressed using a probability distribution, and its future position can only be expressed using a probability distribution. We can never know for sure what an electron is doing, so it must be acting of its own accord. Therefore--oh my God--electrons have free will.

Magical thinking at its finest.


What if they are trying to create the illusion that they have free will but do not. Your trying to play chess with god at the same time as he is playing hide and seek. You have to seek harder to catch him than that
.
edit on 14-5-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Sub atomic particles have free will to do what god tells em to do
through a third party of course...( pitchmen, books, videos, and as seen on TV)
they should especially vote republican.


pS
have you ever tried to catch an electron?
you have to let them come to you, otherwise they just keep moving further away the more you chase them
edit on 14-5-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Tadeusz
 

Here we go again, I thought, but it seems your intent is satirical – unlike the originator of the linked thread, who has since been banned for (I suspect) obsessive trollage here and elsewhere.

You certainly have nailed the central leap of illogic:


We can never know for sure what an electron is doing, so it must be acting of its own accord. Therefore--oh my God--electrons have free will.

You're right: that certainly is


magical thinking at its finest.



On a not-unrelated note, I wonder what happened to our favourite quantum-woo warrior, Matrix Rising? He hasn't visited ATS since February.





I thought, but it seems your intent is satirical – unlike the originator of the linked thread,


You seem pretty obsessed yourself. You didn't debunk anything in that thread, the facts still remain. There is no way for you to explain the results of these quantum experiments.




who has since been banned for (I suspect) obsessive trollage here and elsewhere.


Ah, your arrogance keeps popping up. If the linked material was trolling and the reason for the ban, then why wasn't a single one of those posts removed? Just wishfull thinking on your part. You really think you are important enough to get people banned that destroy you in a discussion? You are a joke.

Fact remains is that you were completely destroyed in regards to that subject, and you were the only one that seemed to think these quantum results are normal and explainable.

And now you're here spreading false information again. In the threads you linked it has been shown that particles seem to behave in such a way that it seems that they know things.

There simply is no denying that.

Disagreeing is one thing, going out of your way to discredit other threads and comments made by people you disagree with, after they are banned, when you didn't have to balls to engage in a direct discussion when they were still here, is a pretty sad move.

But hey, you're a sad guy....

Maybe you can try to get this one banned. See what happens....
edit on 16-5-2012 by nastyxanax because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by Tadeusz
 


Everything is all moving in one movement like the waves on the surface of the ocean, it is all done by the ocean. How can you now separate one drop of the ocean and say look it's got freewill?
It is one.
edit on 16-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


If you have an understanding of quantum experiments, where they fire single photons, you would know that these particles behave in a way that suggests that they have knowledge about their surroundings so to speak.
edit on 16-5-2012 by nastyxanax because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by nastyxanax
 


No they don't.
A conscious observer collaspes the wave of potentiallity just by the act of observing, it then looks like a particle. It is not the particle that chooses to be a particle. Particles do not exist without an observer.
youtu.be...
edit on 16-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


In that experiment they fire single particles, clearly, which only become a wave after they go through both slits and interfere with themselves.

If you watch the slit, the single particles "know" it and don't form the interference pattern.




Particles do not exist without an observer.


I agree, nothing exists without an observer. And I also agree that particles don't really have a "free will", they seem to have to adapt to the observer.
edit on 16-5-2012 by nastyxanax because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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reply to post by nastyxanax
 


Nothing can appear to exist outside of consciousness.
Everything appears within consciousness.

edit on 16-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by nastyxanax
 


"In that experiment they fire single particles, clearly, which only become a wave after they go through both slits and interfere with themselves."

They fire single 'protons' of light to see if they are waves or particles. The experiment shows that the protons are waves unless they are measured. If measured they collaspe to a particle.
The proton is not a single particle that interferes with itself. The proton is a wave, it stays a wave unless measured/observed.


edit on 16-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




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