Your religion does not matter

Originally posted by FRATERPERDURABO

Originally posted by Jameela


In Arabic you don’t say you have faith in God, you never say Indi iman (I have faith) you say Amantu b'illahi which means you are doing faith, when you have something it is negative because you can either have or not have, but when you say Amantu b'illahi you are saying you are ‘doing’ faith. Faith in Islam is a transitive verb. It sounds awkward in English but faith is something you do. When you are doing it you are in a transaction with Allah (azwj). Belief (aqeedah) is different than faith (Iman) faith is a connection with God. Belief doesn’t change; iman can deepen in time as your relationship with God changes, actions are a way to deepen your relationship with Allah (azwj). A Muslim can be in Mecca and be the perfect kafir, or one can be in timbuktu and be the perfect Momin. Faith does not depend on where you are but who you are (in your heart). Faith is revolutionary; it can change and transform a person beyond belief.

i have not heard this before: faith defined through action rather than possession.

i think i like it.

Can you further illuminate the difference between faith and belief?

I have thought on how to answer this, and I think it might be best with some form of example. I am going to use a very simple example for this, as I think it helps to further elucidate my meaning.

There are three things, Belief, Faith, and the last and highest called Certainty. I am adding this last category because it may be helpful.

Belief is a possession.. example, you; "believe the sun will rise in the morning."

Faith takes this belief and makes it action, you "believe the sun will rise in the morning, so when you leave your house at 4 am for work, you take a pair of sunglasses with you for later in the day"

Certainty is a solid foundation of faith that no matter what may come against it, you cannot loose that faith, it is unshakable. example; "You believe the sun will rise in the morning, but before you leave your house for work at 4 am you were on the internet, and more than 100 people were telling you the sun, in fact, was not going to rise today. They came at you with everything they could think of to convince you, but so certain are you that the sun will rise that you took a pair of sunglasses with you when you left your house at 4 am"

LOVE this thread and until the last page I really enjoyed the discussion.

The questions being asked are really good ones. Where is the mind and who controls it is definitely up for debate and different minds have adopted a belief.

One can speculate all day long every day where their mind comes from but no one has proof.

I for one have not seen proof my mind is in my brain so I speculate my mind is outside of my vessel thats been labled a human body. If my mind is outside of my body then there must be things in space I cannot sense.

In this vessel of mine I am limited by senses. Im heavy with mass and feel as though I am magnetized the ground.

For the record, I hold no religion to the whole truth about my existence. I agree.....religions do not matter.

All I KNOW personally is I Am different from everyone I have ever met. Some are a little like me.....but they are not me.

Another knowing is personal happiness is had for me when I feel balanced with positive and negative energies within myself. Even more hapiness is had when I feel completely positive. Knowing the moments do not last there is reason to believe my happiness is not a destination but purely moment by moment. Knowing I can choose the state of emotions I experience allows me to feel I am in control.

Learning for me comes from experience. Others experiences are also something I learn from.....however it is not the same. The knowing is less if I do not personally experience.

As a child there were knowings within my heart and mind that have been shunned over time. I recall a knowing.u

I recall some memories of being excited before I came as a baby in the womb. I recall knowing I could communicate without words....but for some reason I cant now. I recall a loneliness and looking to the sky for answers. I had a feeling of distance between that, that I am and that which I am no longer. These memories are something as an adult I hold onto for what it is I think I knew.....or do know. Im almost 40 and so the memories of a young child are withering....

Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by Jameela
Both; I must change my self first, then, through my good actions, can influence others to also change.

If you are needed to influence others to change, who is influencing you to change?

edit on 13-5-2012 by AManYouALL because: (no reason given)

All those ones who were able to change the world for the better. Everything, begins with one.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

If everyone adds up the last 2 digits of the year they were born plus the age they will be this year they are all 111

Actually, this works! Very cool! However, it should say the age they ARE OR WILL TURN this year.

I got 112 on a couple of them by not using "now" age. How bizarre. I know this is off topic, but I'm reading the thread because it's a very good one...

_______________________________________________

S/F to the OP. What you say is very thought-provoking. I am here out of curiosity, too...also to teach and learn. I know some things, I don't know others, and I'm not sure of a whole lot.

I think the idea that if we understood exactly what it is, it would defeat the purpose, although there are those among us right now who know the "Is" and are here to help and to teach. They can't force others to learn, though.


EDIT:::::
Ohhhhh! It's you! Still strange, but thought-provoking and succinct as ever. Never can quite wrap my head around your posts, bro. Welcome back.

reply to post by AManYouALL


(replying to the original post)
Wow! A Neutron. Eh! I meant, a neutral man.
I am glad to meet a fellow neutral. I think that all our religions and sciences are somewhat the same thing, just expressed differently, as all sunlight is the same but divides into colours after passing through a prism. I have no grudge against christians, even if I am an atheist. I admire the way they think. It is fun to see the simple, pure way they see the world, while I burn my brains trying to solve particles problems, particles that I will never see in my lifetime.
Thanks for the thread! Star and flag.

Originally posted by AManYouALL

What came you here to do?

to learn to subdue my passions and improve myself.

Great thread. I like the way you think.

Originally posted by network dude
to learn to subdue my passions and improve myself.

Is that even possible? I tried for so many years.

Sure the, improvement is complete, but do I really want to subdue my passion?

Originally posted by Jameela

Both; I must change my self first, then, through my good actions, can influence others to also change.

Why do you feel it is your 'duty' to change other humans? How do you know that what feels right for you, will also feel right for them?

Originally posted by FRATERPERDURABO

Originally posted by Jameela

Both; I must change my self first, then, through my good actions, can influence others to also change.

Why do you feel it is your 'duty' to change other humans? How do you know that what feels right for you, will also feel right for them?

I do not feel it is my 'duty' to change others, I said I believe that if I change myself for the better I can influence others to also change, through my good actions.

I am not one looking forward to WW3, in order to prevent such a scenario, many must change... without walking off this path humanity is currently on, that scenario will be inevitable. But if enough change for the better, we can see a better day for the future of this planet in which we all reside.

Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by FRATERPERDURABO

Originally posted by AManYouALL


How much does a thought weigh?

well nothing at all, when using gravity as a metric. Yet if a thought had mass, then different thoughts might be said to be 'heavier' than others. more substantial: less substantial.

And what is a 'great' thought when compared to another, anyway? What do you use as a ruler, i wonder, with which to measure such things?

Great thoughts are usually ones which agree with a preconceived notion of reality, terrible thoughts are those which shatter a defined reality. Then again, like everything else, it is subjective to the mind.

so: a 'great' thought confirms consensus and a 'terrible' thought shatters consensus?

The opposite of 'great' is 'terrible'?

so great = good?

i was more inquiring about 'magnitude' rather than 'direction' (good or bad). Thoughts are like vectors with both magnitude and direction, yes?

Both are relative to some reference point.

By which reference point would you measure a thought, whether it be magnitude (gravity) or direction (good/bad)? A thing (even if it weigh nothing at all) can not be measured without a zero point (reference) to compare it against.

oh boy. Here comes the heated debates again...

Originally posted by swan001
oh boy. Here comes the heated debates again...

I will just leave....no worries

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by swan001
oh boy. Here comes the heated debates again...

I will just leave....no worries

Why leave? Please dont.

You are doing just fine with your thought processing in my opinion and I am delighted to read them....so do not allow others to run you off. It can be labled a debate....or learning. I choose the latter.

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by FRATERPERDURABO

Originally posted by Jameela


In Arabic you don’t say you have faith in God, you never say Indi iman (I have faith) you say Amantu b'illahi which means you are doing faith, when you have something it is negative because you can either have or not have, but when you say Amantu b'illahi you are saying you are ‘doing’ faith. Faith in Islam is a transitive verb. It sounds awkward in English but faith is something you do. When you are doing it you are in a transaction with Allah (azwj). Belief (aqeedah) is different than faith (Iman) faith is a connection with God. Belief doesn’t change; iman can deepen in time as your relationship with God changes, actions are a way to deepen your relationship with Allah (azwj). A Muslim can be in Mecca and be the perfect kafir, or one can be in timbuktu and be the perfect Momin. Faith does not depend on where you are but who you are (in your heart). Faith is revolutionary; it can change and transform a person beyond belief.

i have not heard this before: faith defined through action rather than possession.

i think i like it.

Can you further illuminate the difference between faith and belief?

I have thought on how to answer this, and I think it might be best with some form of example. I am going to use a very simple example for this, as I think it helps to further elucidate my meaning.

There are three things, Belief, Faith, and the last and highest called Certainty. I am adding this last category because it may be helpful.

Belief is a possession.. example, you; "believe the sun will rise in the morning."

Faith takes this belief and makes it action, you "believe the sun will rise in the morning, so when you leave your house at 4 am for work, you take a pair of sunglasses with you for later in the day"

Certainty is a solid foundation of faith that no matter what may come against it, you cannot loose that faith, it is unshakable. example; "You believe the sun will rise in the morning, but before you leave your house for work at 4 am you were on the internet, and more than 100 people were telling you the sun, in fact, was not going to rise today. They came at you with everything they could think of to convince you, but so certain are you that the sun will rise that you took a pair of sunglasses with you when you left your house at 4 am"

i see a progression here: belief > faith > certainty. How does one get from non belief to belief i wonder? or for that matter: faith to certainty.

and:
Belief = a possession
faith = an action
certainty = ???

i personally see 'faith', not as instrument of change, but one of stability: something to lean against. Thoughts/ideas are the instrument of change, don't you think? Ideas lead to belief, when tested against context and found to be 'true', yes? And belief leads to faith through another form of testing?

what do we test? what do we compare it against?

What are the signals that the universe sends us that tellsl us belief can become faith?
This is the heart of my question: How does belief lead to faith?

reply to post by FRATERPERDURABO


Why is there a need for certainty when we observe the Universe as we know it is capable of all possibilities?

The only thing many observe that is certain is "one day people will not see me physically on earth ...one day"......
Is that a certain (true) statement though?

You are hear to find an area to spin your cuccoon. to lay in it and molt your way into a butterfly. You then have the choice to crawl on the ground with the other caterpillars or fly with your beautiful new body.

Originally posted by 0mage
fly with your beautiful new body.

Was that comment directed at me???

Originally posted by swan001

Originally posted by network dude
to learn to subdue my passions and improve myself.

Is that even possible? I tried for so many years.

Sure the, improvement is complete, but do I really want to subdue my passion?

edit on 14-5-2012 by swan001 because: (no reason given)

the key word is "learn" as in, a continuing process. I doubt I will ever get it right, but I will also never stop trying.
My improvement is in the same boat as my passions.

Originally posted by Jameela
I am not one looking forward to WW3, in order to prevent such a scenario, many must change...

Good morning everyone....

There are a few replies I need to address, but since this issue was brought up and weighs heavily (thoughts have weight?) on the mind of many, I figured I would address this.

Faith to you is an action my sister. Thus one can determine by your culture how much faith moves someone by the steps they take. Now if one lives their life in fear while at the same time professing to have BELIEF in a merciful creator, where is the FAITH in their footsteps?

Think on this well my sister for it is not a question designed to destroy your belief and remove faith from your works, but rather to solidify your belief and fill everything you do with undieing faith.

I AM here.

This IS my faith in action.

Remember, swords are sheathed here.

Here we come for understanding....

Originally posted by MamaJ

I for one have not seen proof my mind is in my brain so I speculate my mind is outside of my vessel thats been labled a human body. If my mind is outside of my body then there must be things in space I cannot sense.

A magnetic field can be generated using moving energy and an object called a transformer. This magnetic field permeates the 'physicality' of the transformer, but also extends way beyond the transformer's physical boundaries. I know this because i have built a transformer, allowed energy to flow through it, and measured the presence of this 'field' using tools that act as additional 'senses'.

We could state that because this 'field' extends beyond the transformer, that it is a separate 'thing' , no? But the 'field' could not exist without the moving energy *or* the particular arrangement of physicality that 'transformed' this energy into a field, and further, if either moving energy or transformer are removed, the 'field' collapses.

If we replace 'transformer' with 'body' and 'field' with 'mind', do the above statements remain true?