Real Socialists. The Friends Of The Conservatives.

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posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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I like ATS. It has a great mix of people. I find it to be somewhat of a political microcosmos. Its a great place to debate political issues with people that have differing opinions. I really value it when someone changes my mind about something and that has happened here on ATS a few times.

I am from the left and I always have been. I have been interested in politics since I was about 10. I am Australian. I remember asking my Dad the difference between labor and liberal and he told me that rich people vote for liberals and poor people vote for labor.(our liberal party are the conservatives,confusing I know). Dads short simple discription was actually pretty good.Labors strength is with the unions and they are left. Liberal are for business and are right. My family is working class so I decided I was a labor supporter. I remember as a kid I was very worried about them introducing the GST. I was a kid in 1991 when the liberals were pushing for it and was happy when Keating beat Hewson. I remember Alexander Downer when he became opposition leader. Not many kids are worried about this kind of stuff. Your average Australian think GST only came up when Howard pushed for it and introduced it in 1998. I hated the Nationals(conservative farmers) for helping him get it in. Anyway,the point is I was on the Left before I was a teenager and into my teens.

Also,being a teen in the 90's made me liberal(not the Australian conservative Liberal Party 'liberal' but a liberal as opposed to conservative). The 90's were the most political correct times in history. Way worse than now. it was all save the whales,protect the ozone,African American rights,recycle,gay mardi gras..... So the 90's galvanized my liberal opinions.

As a young adult around the year 2000. I wasnt very political. I was still left but busy with things. The world seemed ok. Then Im watching tv one night with an ex-girlfriend and the news takes over the tv showing New York and the Twin Towers. One of the towers has smoke pouring from the top. I see people jumping from windows. I see a plane come flying along and smash into the other tower. Im thinking,oh my #ing god. i see a tower fall. Then I see another. I see world leaders messages to America coming across the screen including from Saddam. All are saying they are shocked and will help. Im trying to think who would do this? I watched American 24 hour news for the next few months. It was all i did. In that time I see the US Army sent to Afghanistan to kill Afghanis. I was shocked that no media questioned this action. Just blind support. But worse,I see that soon after the attack America is bombing Government buildings in iraq. This was a civillian area. I was outraged. Im wondering why on earth are America dropping bombs on innocent people. The news said they were trying to target Saddam and his family. Like that made it ok. i still havent gotten over it. Only a small part of the people of the west seemed to care or even notice. We all know it only got worse from there.

So while the War on terror is being kicked off,Im still left and liberal and very ant-war. People like me waited years to get rid of Howard in Australia nad bush in America. I was so happy when that happened. Finally,we would end the wars and killing. But oh no. The left parties turn out to be as bad,if not worse. The wars and killing continue.

So now I could see that liberals were morons if they were to buy in to the democrat bs talking points and distractions. I could see how the democrats fooled minorities and made chumps of them. I didnt become a fan of th Republican Party but I started to see that conservatives were correct on more issues and less hysterical about stupid non-issue distractions. I found socialism which is mostly considered to be on the left and does not make you think of conservatives. most conservatives are actually McCarthyist when it comes to socialism and do silly things like call Obama a socialist.

So I had evolved into a socialist that hated liberals and prefered conservatives. I was a Socialist that was against affirmaitive action. A socialist that was against charity. A socialist that was against corrupt unions. A socialist that was against distraction type liberal bs like the recent push to stop calling 'illegals' illegals. A socialist that places little importance on gay political issues. We have more important, more pressing things to worry about than the right of two guys being able to wed after all.

I dont agree with your average 'conservative' on many things. But I consider myself to be a conservative socialist. I like National Socialism. I like the idea of Autarky. My favourite ATS member is a conservative socialist. he has given me direction and although we dont agree on all exactly I value and appreciate his opinions. They have helped me evolve.

So I guess my point is that not all socialists are limp wrisred hysterical naive liberals.No self respecting socialist would vote for Obama. Jerry White is not realistic so the socialists choice is Ron Paul. He is far from ticking every box for the socialsit but he ticks more than Obama or Romney.

And us real socialists need a force of our own. The SEC and the like do far too much pandering to liberals. And every national Socialist group seems to be racist. We need a real socialist party. We need a socialist party for the real socialist.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Australia has such a party... Democratic Labor Party. The United States does not have any party like that, our closest is the American Third Position Party but I do not agree with a lot of their positions, being more High Church/High Culture Conservative than a radical such as them.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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... We need a real socialist party. We need a socialist party for the real socialist.


"We" on you.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


I am pushing for a new part called The australia Party. It isnt perfect but the leader,Bob Katter has some ideas that I like about protecting our public Utilities and Industry. He also wants to limit the market share of our two biggest corporations. they are Wesfarmers and Woolworths. He has some other good ideas too. he gets called a bigot because he is against gay marriage and stuff and called a redneck because he wears a hat.

Im not saying he is perfect but he has my vote. I think he has a chance at breaking the duoploy. Or cracking it at least.

We had the Democrat party which was a sensible left leaning minor party here years ago but it broke up and those votes went to the Greens. the greens are leftist radical whale lovers. They make me sick. many on the left waste their vote on them and they have gained real power over the duopoly as a result. Which is a shame. Now we have a carbon tax coming.

I was raised catholic but have gone away from religion. I guess religion and politics are linked arent they? I never really thought about that much.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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personally i hate the idea of the socialist man. It just another way of the state even one "for the people" to use you.
No free speech no individual thinking. working over time to surpass the quotas. i could go on. Has there been a socialist gov that actually worked? Nope just replacing one evil with another.

Anarchy thats the way to go.

EDIT: Che was a cool guy though i'll admit that
edit on 13-5-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Politics comes out from Religion (or Irreligion). It has always been that way and always will be. As for Katter’s Australia Party, I looked it up on Wikipedia and am shocked at how much I agree with the party. The ideologies of Distributism, Social Conservatism, Agrarian Socialism, and Protectionism are the best descriptions of a Reactionary/Conservative Socialist philosophy one can put together. Too bad us Americans do not have such an option.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by abecedarian

... We need a real socialist party. We need a socialist party for the real socialist.


"We" on you.


Did you mean or me?

I am sad that the stuff I like is associated with neo-nazi type groups. Most nationalists seem pretty racist. I want to like the Golden Dawn for example but I cant.

And the other socialist groups are too liberal for me. They pander to minorities and they remind me of democrats. And if you look back into socialism it doesnt seem to me that most modern socialists actually get it. Im no expert and still learning but I think that I need something that i believe in. I also feel that there must be other socialists out there that feel the same way.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Bixxi3
personally i hate the idea of the socialist man. It just another way of the state even one "for the people" to use you.
No free speech no individual thinking. working over time to surpass the quotas. i could go on. Has there been a socialist gov that actually worked? Nope just replacing one evil with another.

Anarchy thats the way to go.

EDIT: Che was a cool guy though i'll admit that
edit on 13-5-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)


I dont think there have been any true socialist governments that have existed really. I like Libertarian Socialism but I have moved on. I dont see it as realistic.

Edit- I have not read that much about Che to be honest.

Fidel Castro is a great man in my opinion though.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)


Edit- I have seen a heck of alot of Che t-shirts though


I like his quote about making the apple drop.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by Germanicus
 


Politics comes out from Religion (or Irreligion). It has always been that way and always will be. As for Katter’s Australia Party, I looked it up on Wikipedia and am shocked at how much I agree with the party. The ideologies of Distributism, Social Conservatism, Agrarian Socialism, and Protectionism are the best descriptions of a Reactionary/Conservative Socialist philosophy one can put together. Too bad us Americans do not have such an option.


He is pretty cool hey. The media will try to scuttle him but I have hope.

We agree on alot.
Edit- You always seem so far ahead though
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Bixxi3
personally i hate the idea of the socialist man. It just another way of the state even one "for the people" to use you.
No free speech no individual thinking. working over time to surpass the quotas. i could go on. Has there been a socialist gov that actually worked? Nope just replacing one evil with another.

Anarchy thats the way to go.

EDIT: Che was a cool guy though i'll admit that
edit on 13-5-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)

As per usual a US citizen confusing socialism with "soviet" style communism. Please take the time to learn what socialism ACTUALLY means.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by Bixxi3
personally i hate the idea of the socialist man. It just another way of the state even one "for the people" to use you.
No free speech no individual thinking. working over time to surpass the quotas. i could go on. Has there been a socialist gov that actually worked? Nope just replacing one evil with another.

Anarchy thats the way to go.

EDIT: Che was a cool guy though i'll admit that
edit on 13-5-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)

As per usual a US citizen confusing socialism with "soviet" style communism. Please take the time to learn what socialism ACTUALLY means.


Enlighten me please. Because all example of socialist governments has had what i described.
soviet or sino.
And is a socialist Gov just the state before communist?
BTW im not a US citizen...



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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"We" on you



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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Just a small question for you. How is that Labor or as we say lefty gun control working out for yall?? Best as i can gather it seems to be not so good.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Tallahatta
Just a small question for you. How is that Labor or as we say lefty gun control working out for yall?? Best as i can gather it seems to be not so good.


We have had strong Gun Laws since the amnesty when I was a kid. And the Conservatives pushed for them. And 85% of us supported the laws.


Prime Minister John Howard, then newly elected, immediately took the gun law proposals developed from the report of the 1988 National Committee on Violence[16] and forced the states to adopt them under a National Firearms Agreement. This was necessary because the Australian Constitution does not give the Commonwealth power to enact gun laws. The proposals included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls. Some discussion of measures to allow owners to undertake modifications to reduce the capacity of magazine-fed shotguns ('crimping') occurred, but the Government refused to permit this. While surveys showed up to 85% of Australians supported gun control, hundreds of thousands of farmers and sporting shooters strongly opposed the new laws, calling them a 'knee-jerk' reaction by the Government and pointing out the lack of discussion of the issues.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody cared much. Its not like we are American or anything. People in the country were annoyed but they just had to get Gun Safes and a licence. No biggy.

Only America cares about guns really.

Edit- The beat up about guns in the media is about the new Bikie Laws. Its all bs.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)


My opinion on guns is that I would rather have a fist fight. If someone is so much of a coward that they would shoot me then shame on them. Guns are for cowards at the end of the day.

There is no honour in a Bow and Arrow or a Crossbow if you know what I mean.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
"We" on you


My brain will explode if someone else says that


Am I missing something?

I thought maybe that poster was being a little rude and meant to say We or you.

When I said we I was talking about the New Breed.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 
A question.

Wht do you consider, "freedom'?

Any type of government that incorporates a socialistic approach (in my opinion) restricts freedom for the individual.

Another question.

Do you think people have too much freedom?

People can and will be irresponsible. People who do not embrace personal responsibility tend to run towards a central authority to reduce their burden of responsibility.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Germanicus
 
A question.

Wht do you consider, "freedom'?

Any type of government that incorporates a socialistic approach (in my opinion) restricts freedom for the individual.

Another question.

Do you think people have too much freedom?

People can and will be irresponsible. People who do not embrace personal responsibility tend to run towards a central authority to reduce their burden of responsibility.



So that relates to guns? And the right to bear arms?

The people that were worried about the Amnesty didnt want to protect themselves. They wanted to shoot animals. They still can.

But my honest opinion is that if the State gets guns then the people should get them too.

I like how in England your average cop doesnt carry a gun. They dont need them.

But I still dont understand the fascination Americans have with guns. It seems like you guys live in fear.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Germanicus
 
A question.

Wht do you consider, "freedom'?

Any type of government that incorporates a socialistic approach (in my opinion) restricts freedom for the individual.

Another question.

Do you think people have too much freedom?

People can and will be irresponsible. People who do not embrace personal responsibility tend to run towards a central authority to reduce their burden of responsibility.



If you didnt mean guns.

My idea of freedom is a state that cares about its people. A state that protects its people. A state that provides for its people. a state that works for its people. A state that is owned by its people.

Selling off State assets and privatizing/Americanizing everything like whats happened in Australia since the 80's is the opposite of freedom for me. They are making us slaves of the corporatist and beholden just like Americans.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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Nope,we have lots of guns we aren't afraid of a thing......like dead Nazis

We like shooting bullets at paper with extreme skill and accuracy.We like pushing the limits of that skill to surpass the other guy and black guns look cool too.Its a way of "keeping up with the Joneses"a method of socio cultural competition amongst "Alphas"Also it scares the hell out of the left how many we have.
edit on 14-5-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: misspell



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by cavtrooper7
 


Hey man.

Dont knife me.


Dont you prefer a stabbing? Much more personal.

I hate how you guys made the Japanese buy guns. Then shot all the Samurai. Im no gun fan






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