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Comprehending God Poe, the Bible and Candid style.

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posted on May, 12 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Comprehending God Poe, the Bible and Candid style.

Poe said...
If we cannot comprehend God in his visible works, how then in his inconceivable thoughts, that call the works into being? If we cannot understand him in his objective creatures, how then in his substantive moods and phases of creation?

This is basically what scriptures say when they say to seek God in the heavens. Nature IOW.

These views are what led to my apotheosis and I endorse them wholeheartedly.

When I was a seeker, before I found this clip below. I had concluded that reality was in the best and only state that it could be in. This best state included nature as well as man within it.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and the notion that a God would start things of in a good way as scriptures indicate for Eden and that that best way would be self-perpetuating because I could not imagine a God using creation as a make work project that he would have to tweak every now and then as scriptures indicated that he did.

Candide

"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

www.youtube.com...

The above quote should make sense to both believers and non-believers alike, if you see nature always doing the best it can with all the conditions at hand taken into account.

I would like to stay away from discussions of God’s existence here because I think any such discussion would be speculative nonsense as none of our opinions of God is true knowledge and none of it can be proven until he actually shows up. Even as I do not believe in a creator God, I will not argue with those who give credit to him instead of nature and evolution. It is what is here that I would ask you to focus on.

Just looking at nature and mankind then at this point in time, can we agree that what we have is the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand?

To set you on the tract and mindset that I developed, I would like you to think of the day you were born.
Can you say that given all the conditions at hand back then, your DNA and all other conditions, nature produced you to the very best condition that she could muster?
If yes, consider that the next day let’s say, after you began to learned and found the teat and continued learning and developing, right till today, that the initial best you, in the best of all possible world, are continuously aging as the best that you can possible be, given all the conditions at hand.
Not perfect, but the best you can possibly be.

Are you living in the best of all possible world and are you today, the best that nature can produce, given all the conditions at hand?

Regards
DL




posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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It is a difficult concept for some to grasp
That "Everything is as it should be"
Yet once understood sheds new light on everything



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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If you see nature as the physical world around us, governed by specific laws, then I think this world is the only world we could have, it would be the best, and worst of all possible worlds.

Now, if you allow God the power to work outside the laws of nature, and admit that Satan is actively trying to destroy people and goodness, then I think you can say that this is the best possible world.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by artistpoet
It is a difficult concept for some to grasp
That "Everything is as it should be"
Yet once understood sheds new light on everything


I am not sure I would use the words --- Everything is as it should be.
I would not believe it.

In a perfect world, we would likely be living in a timocracy instead of the oligarchies we do live in; with people foolishly thinking they are in a democracy.

We are in the best of all possible worlds, but still should aspire to a better form and fight what is.

You are right though in saying that most will not get the concept I am trying to make them see.
It seems so damned simple to me but -----.

Did you answer yes to that, you as a baby scenario?

Regards
DL



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
If you see nature as the physical world around us, governed by specific laws, then I think this world is the only world we could have, it would be the best, and worst of all possible worlds.

Now, if you allow God the power to work outside the laws of nature, and admit that Satan is actively trying to destroy people and goodness, then I think you can say that this is the best possible world.


On your first.
Thanks but I have no clue as to how a world could be the best and worst at the same time.
Explain.

On your second.
If the God you know would put a Satan here instead of administering the penalty of hell that he supposedly gave, justice delayed is justice denied, and gave him the power to deceive the whole world, your word says so, then your God is quite the prick and knows nothing of justice.

God in your word says that it is his will that none of his children will be lost. You contradict him by saying his will is not supreme and that somehow Satan can thwart it. God then either has limits or you do not know how to interpret your own word.

Either read your bible for the first time or give it up. Your theological outlook makes absolutely no sense.

Explain your first if you like but do not try to discuss your theology with me because you do not understand your God.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Everything is how it should be refers to the present state of affairs in the world
Because we each have choice and so wrong (for want of a better word) choices are made over good (again for want of a better word) it is how it should be
For if you took away "wrong" choice and only had "good" choices we would be like a preprogrammed robot.
We are beings of thought with choice is one way of describing what I am attempting to convey
Yes the world could be a place of harmony and peace this is vision many aspire to



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 

Dear Greatest I am,

I suppose I deserve your scorn, my writing was unusually fuzzy. Let me try to make what repairs may be possible.

My first point was more of a semantic trick or tautology that I was using to eliminate the possibility that we were looking at a world with no supernatural influence. My thinking was that if all that existed was matter and energy following paths predetermined by fixed laws, then we could only have one world, this one. My thinking here is questionable, however. I did not explicitly account for "chance." Of course, one can argue that there is no chance, therefore we are in the only possible world.

I have one car. I do not have a better car, therefore it is my best one. I do not have a worse car, therefore it is my worst one. I agree that I did not follow the rules of grammar. But I was too briefly and playfully making the point that the OP's question is meaningless without a supernatural influence.

On your argument against my second point, I am unclear. I do believe that Satan is active in the world, I don't think that's a heterodox opinion. I thought most everyone who believed in Satan believed he has influence on the earth. Is your objection that the existence of Satan shows god is unjust? Why? It was Humanity that let him into this world, shouldn't we suffer for it?

You are right, it is not God's will that any of His children be lost. It is not my will that any of my children be lost, but I can't prevent that without taking away their human right to choose for themselves. God has the limit He imposed on Himself when He decided to let us choose our own paths. What's the problem?


Either read your bible for the first time or give it up. Your theological outlook makes absolutely no sense.

Explain your first if you like but do not try to discuss your theology with me because you do not understand your God.
I hope I've been able to make amends for the sloppiness of my first post.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Are you living in the best of all possible world and are you today, the best that nature can produce, given all the conditions at hand?


Please excuse my naivety but I am one of those airy fairy types (according to some) who actually believes that everything is in perfect divine order. Miracles happen everyday and I am amazed at the boundless love I find in unexpected places.

Take this conversation for example...

Dark Side

Now some may look and see nothing of note.

What I see is beyond words in it's complexity, precision, and love.

God is among us.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Comprehending God Poe, the Bible and Candid style.

Poe said...
If we cannot comprehend God in his visible works, how then in his inconceivable thoughts, that call the works into being? If we cannot understand him in his objective creatures, how then in his substantive moods and phases of creation?

Candide
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

I would like to stay away from discussions of God’s existence here because I think any such discussion would be speculative nonsense as none of our opinions of God is true knowledge and none of it can be proven until he actually shows up. Even as I do not believe in a creator God, I will not argue with those who give credit to him instead of nature and evolution. It is what is here that I would ask you to focus on.

Just looking at nature and mankind then at this point in time, can we agree that what we have is the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand?

Can you say that given all the conditions at hand back then, your DNA and all other conditions, nature produced you to the very best condition that she could muster?
If yes, consider that the next day let’s say, after you began to learned and found the teat and continued learning and developing, right till today, that the initial best you, in the best of all possible world, are continuously aging as the best that you can possible be, given all the conditions at hand.
Not perfect, but the best you can possibly be.

Are you living in the best of all possible world and are you today, the best that nature can produce, given all the conditions at hand?

John 3:8-12 "You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked. Jesus replied, "You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don't understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?"

I believe that it is up to each of us as to whether we live under the best possible conditions. Jesus said:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." -Matthew 7:7

Matthew 13:11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Why do you suppose this is? Lets look to the previous verse.
Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
The disciples were child-like, they were not afraid to question Jesus, they asked and it was given to them. They believed that Jesus would explain to them what he meant and Jesus did. They were not satisfied with parables.
Joseph believed that God would explain to him the meaning of Pharaoh's dreams and God supplied. Pharaoh was not satisfied with his dream from God, he wanted to know what the dream meant and through a man named Joseph, God supplied. The seven years of famine were tough, but the best possible conditions came because folks are not satsified with ignorance, but rather deny ignorance. Remember that Joseph was betrayed by his brothers and sold into slavery and he spent years in jail before he began to help Pharaoh, which leads us back to how those who are born of the spirit live in a manner like the wind in the eyes of onlookers, not knowing where it comes from or where it is going. Joseph trusted in the Lord all those years he was in prison, he may not have understood why he was living in those conditions but I'll bet he asked God and eventually he did come to understand.
People mistakenly believe that God is so evasive as to not supply us with true knowledge of Him.
Psalm 34:8 -Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
How can one "taste and see"?
Jeremiah 15: 16 -Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O LORD, God of hosts.
Psalm 128:2 -You will eat the fruit of your labor; blessings and prosperity will be yours.
Jeremiah sought God's words and he found them, he made a decision to turn his will and his life over to the care of God as he understood Him, and so he ate the fruit of his labor and tasted and saw that the LORD is good.
For me this world is not mine to decide the true nature of it's condition, the earth is the Lords and everything in it. God says not to conform to society's standards.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
If the God you know would put a Satan here instead of administering the penalty of hell that he supposedly gave, justice delayed is justice denied, and gave him the power to deceive the whole world, your word says so, then your God is quite the prick and knows nothing of justice.

God in your word says that it is his will that none of his children will be lost. You contradict him by saying his will is not supreme and that somehow Satan can thwart it. God then either has limits or you do not know how to interpret your own word.

Either read your bible for the first time or give it up. Your theological outlook makes absolutely no sense.

Explain your first if you like but do not try to discuss your theology with me because you do not understand your God.

Regards
DL
I don't believe that justice delayed is justice denied. Jesus said, "Do not be decieved." He told us things so that we won't stumble, we have no reason to be decieved and we have no reason to stumble. Jesus said that the harvest is great but the laborers are few, pray for more workers. The problem is that Satan has so many Christians castrated by decieving them into believing that their work does not matter to God, that it is as effective as a filthy washcloth. These people would not be decieved if they would believe what Jesus said. Jesus gives us time to repent because he wants us to live. John the Baptist said, "bear fruits worthy of repentance." Jesus said, make the tree good and it's fruit will be good. You have the power to keep yourself from being decieved.
It IS God's will that none of his children will be lost. His children are those who listen to him and obey him. Jesus said, anyone who does the will of God are his brothers and sisters and mothers. Now whom are those who are lost, those whom are not his children, those who do not listen to Jesus, don't seek to understand Him, don't seek to know Him, those who believe that God is unknowable, those who believe that God resides in the dark where misunderstandings abound, they can not be disowned by God who never placed themselves in God's hands. Two can not walk together unless they agree. God may want to walk with us, but if we don't want to walk with God then God won't force us to abide in truth, but will not stop striving to bring us into knowledge of Himself.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Everything is how it should be refers to the present state of affairs in the world
Because we each have choice and so wrong (for want of a better word) choices are made over good (again for want of a better word) it is how it should be
For if you took away "wrong" choice and only had "good" choices we would be like a preprogrammed robot.
We are beings of thought with choice is one way of describing what I am attempting to convey
Yes the world could be a place of harmony and peace this is vision many aspire to



Peace, perhaps. An absence of evil, let's hope not. That would mean that we have gone extinct.
As you indicated, evil/competition in evolutionary terms, is not evil but good if one looks at the big picture.

Let me expand.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for bein available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Greatest I am
 

Dear Greatest I am,

I suppose I deserve your scorn, my writing was unusually fuzzy. Let me try to make what repairs may be possible.

My first point was more of a semantic trick or tautology that I was using to eliminate the possibility that we were looking at a world with no supernatural influence. My thinking was that if all that existed was matter and energy following paths predetermined by fixed laws, then we could only have one world, this one. My thinking here is questionable, however. I did not explicitly account for "chance." Of course, one can argue that there is no chance, therefore we are in the only possible world.

I have one car. I do not have a better car, therefore it is my best one. I do not have a worse car, therefore it is my worst one. I agree that I did not follow the rules of grammar. But I was too briefly and playfully making the point that the OP's question is meaningless without a supernatural influence.

On your argument against my second point, I am unclear. I do believe that Satan is active in the world, I don't think that's a heterodox opinion. I thought most everyone who believed in Satan believed he has influence on the earth. Is your objection that the existence of Satan shows god is unjust? Why? It was Humanity that let him into this world, shouldn't we suffer for it?

You are right, it is not God's will that any of His children be lost. It is not my will that any of my children be lost, but I can't prevent that without taking away their human right to choose for themselves. God has the limit He imposed on Himself when He decided to let us choose our own paths. What's the problem?


Either read your bible for the first time or give it up. Your theological outlook makes absolutely no sense.

Explain your first if you like but do not try to discuss your theology with me because you do not understand your God.
I hope I've been able to make amends for the sloppiness of my first post.

With respect,
Charles1952


Nope. You dug a deeper hole for yourself.

Let's say your God is real.
You say that " the OP's question is meaningless without a supernatural influence."

The O P is quoting your own word that says to study nature to find God.
You are saying your word is meaningless. I agree if you will not follow it.


"Is your objection that the existence of Satan shows god is unjust? Why? It was Humanity that let him into this world, shouldn't we suffer for it?"

Humanity led him here? Again you do not know your theology.
Who put or allowed Satan in to Eden?
Man? No.
God did.
Now ask yourself why God would put the fox in the hen house, so to speak, and then threw a fit on all of mankind when his stupid move lost him a hen. Answer this on your own and you will grow spiritually. If you cannot, come back and ask. I will be happy to share wisdom.

You might start by absorbing this.

www.youtube.com...


"You are right, it is not God's will that any of His children be lost. It is not my will that any of my children be lost, but I can't prevent that without taking away their human right to choose for themselves."

You compare yourself to God.
Your will is not supreme. The will of the bible God is supposed to be. What he wants, he has a pocket full of miracles to make sure his will is done.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Wonders

For me this world is not mine to decide the true nature of it's condition, the earth is the Lords and everything in it. God says not to conform to society's standards.


Yet your own bible tells you to dither out the world true nature.

If you do not seek, you will not find.

If you think you will find God in a book then live your fantasy even as you ignore what that God in a book tells you to do.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Wonders
I don't believe that justice delayed is justice denied. Jesus said, "Do not be decieved." He told us things so that we won't stumble, we have no reason to be decieved and we have no reason to stumble.


Again selective reading. That same God said that Satan can deceive the whole world.

You of course are immune.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Everything is how it should be refers to the present state of affairs in the world
Because we each have choice and so wrong (for want of a better word) choices are made over good (again for want of a better word) it is how it should be
For if you took away "wrong" choice and only had "good" choices we would be like a preprogrammed robot.
We are beings of thought with choice is one way of describing what I am attempting to convey
Yes the world could be a place of harmony and peace this is vision many aspire to



Peace, perhaps. An absence of evil, let's hope not. That would mean that we have gone extinct.
As you indicated, evil/competition in evolutionary terms, is not evil but good if one looks at the big picture.

Let me expand.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for bein available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

Regards
DL



Sorry you misunderstand what I was meaning
I was not referring to good or evil in the Religious sense
I was referring to thought Re: Inspiration Vs thought patterns
Like I said "wrong" choices or "good choices" for want of a better word
Evil is far from what I meant
Nor did I use the word evil
You misunderstood



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
An absence of evil, let's hope not. That would mean that we have gone extinct.
As you indicated, evil/competition in evolutionary terms, is not evil but good if one looks at the big picture.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

So, what are you trying to change by having written all this? IF you truly believe that evil is necessary for your own personal survival then you have nothing to worry about because there's plenty of evil in the world. I'm sorry that you feel that you've got no free will. I'm sorry you see competition as evil. I'm sorry you see fit to cooperate with evil. Eve was decieved. We do not "sin by nature" and the "sin nature" is not dormant, and yes, there actually ARE some people who DO NOT sin. If you really do believe that "this is how things are and should be" then what will you say to try to CHANGE what I believe in order to MAKE me COOPERATE with your beliefs on "competition"?



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by artistpoet
[qu

Sorry you misunderstand what I was meaning
I was not referring to good or evil in the Religious sense
I was referring to thought Re: Inspiration Vs thought patterns
Like I said "wrong" choices or "good choices" for want of a better word
Evil is far from what I meant
Nor did I use the word evil
You misunderstood



I stand corrected. Thanks.

Regards
DL



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Comprehending God Poe, the Bible and Candid style.

Perhaps it was me being off topic that caused the misunderstanding as the title of the thread does relate to religion
So I can understand my comments could easily be viewed in that context



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Greatest I am
An absence of evil, let's hope not. That would mean that we have gone extinct.
As you indicated, evil/competition in evolutionary terms, is not evil but good if one looks at the big picture.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.

So, what are you trying to change by having written all this? IF you truly believe that evil is necessary for your own personal survival then you have nothing to worry about because there's plenty of evil in the world. I'm sorry that you feel that you've got no free will. I'm sorry you see competition as evil. I'm sorry you see fit to cooperate with evil. Eve was decieved. We do not "sin by nature" and the "sin nature" is not dormant, and yes, there actually ARE some people who DO NOT sin. If you really do believe that "this is how things are and should be" then what will you say to try to CHANGE what I believe in order to MAKE me COOPERATE with your beliefs on "competition"?


I am not trying to change anything except the perception that evil is not useful to us while realizing we can reduce it's impact.
FYPOV, why else would God create it?

FMPOV, that is why evolution created it. So that man would not go extinct.

My personal survival was not at issue. The survival of humanity was. You say that there is plenty of evil around. I agree but would point out that evil is at it's lowest level that it has ever been on earth per capita. Violent death rates and slavery being at the top of that improvement. Your perception is wrong if you see evil growing. It is shrinking.

I do not think we have no free will. We do have free will. I even have a test to prove it.

I do not see competition as evil in the sense you say it. It is what we would call evil but it is a requirement to evolution and in that sense good for evolution and our survival. Eliminate it and mankind will backslide into extinction.

Eve was not deceived. You spout dogma and not fact and point to why the church will not give woman equality with men and says that man is to rule aver woman. Then again, most Christians do not admit to denigrating and discriminating against women without just cause.

"there actually ARE some people who DO NOT sin. "

That is not what your bible says. Then again, it lies quite often as you indicate if you do not believe we are all sinners.

"what will you say to try to CHANGE what I believe"

All I can ask of you to change your perception is to look at your own life and actions throughout each day and note that you are either cooperating or competing all the time. If you think that when you compete you are doing good, then look at the loser you create when you win and your own feelings when you lose.

You only do one of two things all day. Cooperate or compete. You only do two things all day. Good or evil.
You can never eliminate evil from your life. You can be aware of it though and reduce it's impact by more cooperation. You, as most of us, are just not aware that when you compete, you add to evil somewhere.

Do you see it yet?

Regards
DL



posted on May, 14 2012 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Comprehending God Poe, the Bible and Candid style.

Perhaps it was me being off topic that caused the misunderstanding as the title of the thread does relate to religion
So I can understand my comments could easily be viewed in that context


Respect grows my friend.

I did not re-read but did you recognize that you were the best of what you could be when born and are still the best you can be at this point in time? In this best of all possible worlds.

Regards
DL



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