Who killed the prophet Muhammad? A 1400 year old murder mystery.

Some incredibly ignorant, presumption and dumbfounded posts as usual but that's nothing new on ATS these days.

Hats off to poster above, someone did their homework. We pale in comparison to these people of our past as we would do well to try and live up to some of their characteristics if we are to make a change in this world, religion and culture aside...

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. ...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

Dr. William Draper in 'History of Intellectual Development of Europe'

The cure to disease of this world lies in our past, with the Prophets and Saints, if we took the time to study them and work out what made them successful as human beings, rather than attacking their character as we so easily do in this day and age of ignorance.

It is so much easier to be cruel than it is to show kindness as kindness these days is considered a sign of weakness and inferiority.

Read history, Islamic Academics and Historians believe he eventually died of the poison he had part ingested many years ago while at meal.

reply to post by Jameela


It's so sad to see a woman speak as you do in defense of a belief system, in defense of people, who have no interest in seeing intelligent women rise to power. You could be a voice for millions of those oppressed by the Islamic system...who are waiting to get out but can't because they are afraid...yet you choose to be the voice of the oppressor. I will never understand this nor do I want to, because in my mind men and women should be free from oppression. I don't want to know the rationalization going on in your brain while you're reading this: "he mentioned free...my book says freedom is bad...therefore he is a force of evil" but sadly, as you can see, I can have a pretty good 'guess'.

Truly sad.

reply to post by old_god

The cure to disease of this world lies in our past, with the Prophets and Saints, if we took the time to study them and work out what made them successful as human beings, rather than attacking their character as we so easily do in this day and age of ignorance.

Oh but you seek success...that is...so outside of the character of many a prophet. Except for those who went around to kill, rape, enslave and plunder.

reply to post by Jameela


Assalaamu alaikum. Jazakallah khayr, for a great and informative post.

However, too numerous are the amount of Muslims from differing madh'habs (schools of thought) and ideologies who taqleed (blindly follow) such hadith (sayings/actions of Muhammad) or other teachings without critical inquiry.

"This Hadith is labeled as Sahih (authentic), so it must be followed!"

You can disagree with any hadith source, narrator, or compiler, however, entire schools of thought are based upon such concepts while they reject that which others propose.

So we ask who is right and who is wrong? They both have their own daleel (evidence). Now we are torn by sectarianism. You say you are right, but thousands of Muslims will say you are wrong.

The guy in the OP video might have quoted Hadith that YOU disagree with, but on the other hand, he cited viable daleel (evidence) that thousands of Muslims believe. It's not like he pulled those references out of his back-side.

Originally posted by redneck13

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by beezzer
Off the cuff here, but in his later revelations, he was asking more for peace than anything else.

Wasn't it one of his followers?

And isn't this the point of division between shia and sunni branches?

Shiite believe that the rulership of Islam should have stayed within Muhammad's family, namely his son-in-law/cousin as his successor. Sunni believe that it should be only those who actually follow Muhammad's traditions and only those whom the job was capable of being fulfilled by, name Abu Bakr.

Who gets to rule over Islam is what the division is about. It's a power grab.

It's a power grab

It's a power grab and the Shiite are losing. The Sunni's control most of the Middle East and the Muslim Brotherhood is pulling the strings trying to recreate the Caliphate/Ottoman Empire, what is being fought over is who is going to control it, which is why they bomb eachother when theyre not bombing us.

Originally posted by old_god
Some incredibly ignorant, presumption and dumbfounded posts as usual but that's nothing new on ATS these days.

Hats off to poster above, someone did their homework. We pale in comparison to these people of our past as we would do well to try and live up to some of their characteristics if we are to make a change in this world, religion and culture aside...

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. ...It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

Dr. William Draper in 'History of Intellectual Development of Europe'

The cure to disease of this world lies in our past, with the Prophets and Saints, if we took the time to study them and work out what made them successful as human beings, rather than attacking their character as we so easily do in this day and age of ignorance.

It is so much easier to be cruel than it is to show kindness as kindness these days is considered a sign of weakness and inferiority.

Read history, Islamic Academics and Historians believe he eventually died of the poison he had part ingested many years ago while at meal.

Show me a valid proof if you speak the truth ? funny thing is you can't, the lame excuse indgested with you're oppinion to downgrade this man by saying some islamic academics historian proves that he was poisoned..Please i'm waiting for proof, because i have mine to refute.

Why is it everyone wants to drag religion into the thread, there are other threads for religion. Please stay on topic
Who killed the prophet Muhammad? A 1400 year old murder mystery

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Then subscribe to that guy's list. David Wood knows his stuff, he's one of the many of us who decided to go get a Quran to read it for ourselves and let Yeshua's Holy Spirit show us what is in it.

Who's David Wood? The guy in the video?
Yeah, sure... first he relies on Allahs word in the Koran to make his argument.... and then makes other videos criticising the Koran... the same book that he used to make his argument. So just how do you make a claim based on scripture if you dont believe in it?
Its like an atheist quoting from the bible for his advantage....and then going on to ridicule the bible as a work of fiction.

Also note that in the video, after the 20 minute mark he tells muslims "Islam is submission to God, not to Mohammad".... so he is basically acknowledging that Allah is indeed God, and the Koran, the revealed word of God.

Clever, but he is not admitting Allah is God, he is poking holes in Islam, incase you fail at understanding sarcasm. We (true believers in Yeshua) know that our God is not "the supreme rock god" of the ka'aba nor is he a bloodthristy moongod that desires his people to explode themselves with bombs to kill other people for their assurance of going to heaven.

I believe it also could have been Mohamed’s wife. We see these type of thing across cultures when people are repressed as is typical even in modern times when Muslim men assert illegal control over another person in the form of abuse towards women even slavery. We have no reason to not believe Mohammed’s wife’s attitude would be any different from this modern woman’s attitude. When people suppress animosity, emotions of revenge can come into play. I may suggest that being married at six and then being forced to perform sex at the ripe old age of nine would emotionally scare a woman for life. Once she came to the realization she was a victim of child abuse at the hands of a pedophile a condition of temporary insanity may have overwhelmed her. We can not rule out Mohamed’s wife as a suspect

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You do realize that Allah is just the Arabic word for God, right? In Hebrew would be "El" or "Eloah" (Singular of Elohim), in Arabic it is "Allah".

Compare how The Bible begins in Hebrew and in Arabic:

Genesis 1:1

English: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Hebrew: beresht elohim bara hashamayim ha'aretz.

Arabic: Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard.

reply to post by redneck13

I believe it also could have been Mohamed’s wife. We see these type of thing across cultures when people are repressed as is typical even in modern times when Muslim men assert illegal control over another person in the form of abuse towards women even slavery.

Aisha did say that muslim women suffer more than infidel women do, and we know how much the infidel women suffered being raped and forced to watch their husband's being beheaded. There was one case where Muhammad murdered a jewish woman's husband and then raped her that same night.

- At the Massacre of Khaybar, Muhammad brutally tortured a Jewish chieftain for extracting information about where he had hidden his treasures. When the treasure was uncovered, the chieftain was beheaded. This chieftain was the husband of the most beautiful Jewish woman of Khaybar, the 17-year-old Safiyaah. Safiyaah’s family members had been annihilated by Muhammad at the Banu Qurayza massacre. Now having beheaded her husband, the Prophet took Safiyah as his sex-slave and "copulated" on the same night.

Muhammad's kinky sado-masochistic labido

Originally posted by DumbTopSecretWriters
the lame excuse ingested with you're opinion to downgrade this man by saying some Islamic academics historian proves that he was poisoned..Please I'm waiting for proof, because i have mine to refute.

edit on 14-5-2012 by DumbTopSecretWriters because: (no reason given)

I would like to request, if it pleases you and you would not mind, that if you have something of value on this topic that perhaps you could share with all of us. There is too much mud throwing in this thread to have much intelligent discourse, but also there are people such as this;

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Who would like to actually learn. Maybe you might find something to share that would be pertinent for those who simply want to learn.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Clever, but he is not admitting Allah is God, he is poking holes in Islam, incase you fail at understanding sarcasm.

The speaker in the video is basically admitting that Allahs word in the Koran came true because he thinks Mohammad died of a severed aorta (as recorded in hadiths).

Also, its funny how he mocks Islam saying "Allah saved Jesus, but let Mohammad die of poison"....when chritianity believes Jesus died a painful death at the hands of jews and pagans.

reply to post by arpgme

You do realize that Allah is just the Arabic word for God, right? In Hebrew would be "El" or "Eloah" (Singular of Elohim), in Arabic it is "Allah".

Nope, it does not mean "God". It comes from the pre-islamic Arabic root of Al-Ilah which simply means "the god", not "God". Remember, Arabs were not always muslim, their islamization did not occur until Muhammad began his conquest.

God's name is not God btw, and if "Allah's" name is "Allah" then that means his name is"God", which again, is not the same God jews and christians believe in and even the orthodox jews and messianic jews split in the first century over the messianics belief that the Messiah is God incarnate.

reply to post by arpgme

Compare how The Bible begins in Hebrew and in Arabic:

Genesis 1:1

English: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Hebrew: beresht elohim bara hashamayim ha'aretz.

Arabic: Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard.

So you are basically saying that a moon god is the god of the bible?


Thats sickening. Don't offend the beliefs of christians.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

So you are basically saying that a moon god is the god of the bible?

Thats sickening. Don't offend the beliefs of christians.

NO, the poster was agreeing with this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Nope, it does not mean "God". It comes from the pre-islamic Arabic root of Al-Ilah which simply means "the god", not "God".

.....and since "Elohim" is a plural form of "God", i.e gods.... can we call christianity a polytheistic religion.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I think Arabic Christians would be extremely confused if you were to say that to them. Yes, the WORD Allah did come from the ancient moon god, but did you know that Yahweh (God of The Bible) was an ancient Canaanite WAR god?

reply to post by arpgme

Yes, the WORD Allah did come from the ancient moon god, but did you know that Yahweh (God of The Bible) was an ancient Canaanite WAR god?

Any evidence for this?
Going by the Koran, Allah is defined as the God who

- created Adam and Eve
- Guided Noah, Abraham, Moses
- Gave the psalms to David
- Sent Jesus

etc.

I read the same things in the bible. Does it mean that the christians worship the moon god as well?

These verses below, shows that the Jews had a habit of killing prophets from God.

Matthew 23:29-31
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.

Matthew 23:32-34
32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

Jesus makes it clear that prophets of God will continue to be sent, and that the Jews will go on killing them.


Seems to me, like Mohammed is in good company…


Anyway, to decide that a person is not a prophet, based solely on a few of their bad actions, is just ridiculous, and if we did, we would have to discount quite a few prophets from the OT IMO. We need to base Mohammed’s prophet ship, based on the words that he, and no one else, transcribed in the Quran.


Also it’s pretty clear, historically, that Islam essentially believes in the Abrahamic God. They accept the prophets of the OT and Jesus Messiahship etc so how people can suggest that Islam believes in a completely different God, is completely missing the bigger picture.


- JC