The Christian Left

It seems that, for the present generation, we have extremists who are dictating religion and politics and trying to combine them into one. If you don't share their beliefs and their ideas, you are attacked, ostracized, ganged up on and they try to silence you. It's very odd that it's that same group of people, who want to quell everyone else in the world, who are most adamant about people being "out to get them" or being "discriminated against because of their beliefs" and all the other big conspiracy ideas that pop up. It just seems that it's more a case of projection than a case of observance. They think of the things they do and would do to others and then imagine those things are being done to them.
I love God very much and I'm thankful to Jesus Christ. I will, in no way, shape or form, EVER be part of the evangelical fundamentalist movement. I see what they do as political, not spiritual. The political leaders have employed belief in God as a tool to control the masses and have people believing that if they don't follow what these political leaders are saying, they are going against God himself. The last time we had a group as corrupt as this group is was about 2000 years ago.
It's time we stop letting a political group set on ruling the world tell us who and what God is. We need to read the bible for ourselves AND research the culture of the time and look at other writings that verify or give different perspectives and ideas about what was meant instead of depending on the equivalence of mega churches and tv evangilists to tell us how to live.
The Christian Left needs to step up and make the Christian Right (which is neither Christian nor right in many cases) stop dictating who is and isn't going to burn in hell. That's God's decision, not ours. I did find an interesting website that I've been reading through today and would like to share it. Maybe others out there who like having a relationship with God but don't want to have to register as republicans to do it will enjoy it as well.

www.thechristianleft.org...

Originally posted by PurpleChitenThe Christian Left needs to step up and make the Christian Right (which is neither Christian nor right in many cases) stop dictating who is and isn't going to burn in hell. That's God's decision, not ours. I did find an interesting website that I've been reading through today and would like to share it. Maybe others out there who like having a relationship with God but don't want to have to register as republicans to do it will enjoy it as well.

So you want the Liberal Christians to stand up to the Conservative Christians, who aren't true christians by the way; and good luck getting a positive response from those members on this site for that remark, and demand they stop doing exactly what you seem to be doing? That is: stop dictating how others should conduct their business in person, and on the internet.

Maybe Christians, in general, should just stop spreading their beliefs around to others and let people live their own lives without fear of reprisal and reprimand because they aren't as speshul as a majority of Christians think they are.

I don't care what you believe, just don't talk down to me like I'm beneath you because you have a self-righteous persona since you were "born-again"; get over yourself. By "you" I'm referring to Christians in this sentence, not you personally.

I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Hi OP.

I'm not really clear on what you think defines the Christian left and right.

I agree that the Christian right is far more outspoken and aggressive and many I consider to be bullies. They certainly don't represent as Christians, in my opinion.

This clip is political Christian right pandering at it's best, in my opinion.



Really, where are the voices of the Christian right? They get mocked, like Carlton Peterson,



I think Bill sums it up well, for you.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Hi OP.

I'm not really clear on what you think defines the Christian left and right.

I agree that the Christian right is far more outspoken and aggressive and many I consider to be bullies. They certainly don't represent as Christians, in my opinion.

I guess to cut through the wordy definitions and philosophical explanations... my view is pretty much what you're saying. The Christian Right tends to be bullies and wanting to force everyone to think they way they do or they'll burn in hell. The Christian Left would be those Christians who keep to themselves, share if they're asked and let their actions of goodwill speak louder than their words of condemnation. ... only my opinion of course, but that's the "basics" of it.

Or you can realize that Christianity is a false religion by doing some research of Christianity and how it relates to astrotheology and other Pagan gods.

Education is the answer to ignorance, especially for those who desperately feel like they "NEED" to control other's lives.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
It seems that, for the present generation, we have extremists who are dictating religion and politics and trying to combine them into one. If you don't share their beliefs and their ideas, you are attacked, ostracized, ganged up on and they try to silence you. It's very odd that it's that same group of people, who want to quell everyone else in the world, who are most adamant about people being "out to get them" or being "discriminated against because of their beliefs" and all the other big conspiracy ideas that pop up. It just seems that it's more a case of projection than a case of observance. They think of the things they do and would do to others and then imagine those things are being done to them.
I love God very much and I'm thankful to Jesus Christ. I will, in no way, shape or form, EVER be part of the evangelical fundamentalist movement. I see what they do as political, not spiritual. The political leaders have employed belief in God as a tool to control the masses and have people believing that if they don't follow what these political leaders are saying, they are going against God himself. The last time we had a group as corrupt as this group is was about 2000 years ago.
It's time we stop letting a political group set on ruling the world tell us who and what God is. We need to read the bible for ourselves AND research the culture of the time and look at other writings that verify or give different perspectives and ideas about what was meant instead of depending on the equivalence of mega churches and tv evangilists to tell us how to live.
The Christian Left needs to step up and make the Christian Right (which is neither Christian nor right in many cases) stop dictating who is and isn't going to burn in hell. That's God's decision, not ours. I did find an interesting website that I've been reading through today and would like to share it. Maybe others out there who like having a relationship with God but don't want to have to register as republicans to do it will enjoy it as well.

www.thechristianleft.org...

We are on the same page so I will do a quick hit here just to give you what I hope will find interesting.

It fits your avatar and my pet saying, analogically speaking for both religions and politics, that one cannot fly just on one wing and that both right and left have to be strong or the bird will just fly in a circle.

blog.ted.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by arpgme
Or you can realize that Christianity is a false religion by doing some research of Christianity and how it relates to astrotheology and other Pagan gods.

Education is the answer to ignorance, especially for those who desperately feel like they "NEED" to control other's lives.

You are welcome to your opinion. If it is right, I'll be happy in an eternal afterlife and if it is wrong, then I'm living well and treating others with kindness. It's a win/win for me. It's those who don't treat others with kindness that brings in the negative aspect. We're all free to have our own beliefs, but we aren't free to shove them down the throats of those around us. That's the issue I have with the "religious right". They can't seem to differentiate between "sharing their faith" and "forcing their ideas on others" and it makes the people they attack hate all of Christianity in return.
My religious side: You don't have to believe, but I do. My American side: I won't hate you because you don't and I'll defend your right to believe as you choose and will defend others if you try to force anything upon them.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

We are on the same page so I will do a quick hit here just to give you what I hope will find interesting.

It fits your avatar and my pet saying, analogically speaking for both religions and politics, that one cannot fly just on one wing and that both right and left have to be strong or the bird will just fly in a circle.

blog.ted.com...

Regards
DL

Thank you! One of my favorite responses to political disagreements is: It takes both wings to fly!
I don't hate republicans, I just don't like their belief system ...but it does take many viewpoints and interactions to keep our country going.

btw... I LOVE LOVE LOVE TED!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

I think the difference is that there are more religions in our country than just Christianity. Even though that is my belief system, I shouldn't have the right, given by the government, to condemn someone else's beliefs. I don't want my own choice of beliefs to be forbidden or outlawed or taken away and I don't want to take away someone else's. Perhaps in the smaller populations at the time of Plato, it was easier to find less diversity, but in today's world, the belief systems have grown exponentially. I don't want the government, the ruler of all the people, to be dictated by any religious system completely. They can all have input and bring up things that are for the betterment of society as a whole, but I don't want them to be able to force all others to "go away" or conform to their standards.
I do see what you are saying, how our individual beliefs merge when it comes to politics and spirituality, but as a country, the whole population, we would have to allow everyone to have input and not discriminate against or toward one group or another unless their belief system included human sacrifice or something that would harm someone else.
Perhaps I dream of a world where the government is simple and fair for all, and spirituality is chosen by the individual. I'm definitely not in line with those who are outspoken in the Christian realm at the present time, but there was a time when this belief had much more support. I just hope that time can come again. I have no issue living/working beside those of the Muslim faith, Jewish faith, Bhuddist faith or any other faith they may hold as long as their main principle is to not harm others in practicing that faith.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by arpgme
Or you can realize that Christianity is a false religion by doing some research of Christianity and how it relates to astrotheology and other Pagan gods.

Education is the answer to ignorance, especially for those who desperately feel like they "NEED" to control other's lives.

You are welcome to your opinion. If it is right, I'll be happy in an eternal afterlife and if it is wrong, then I'm living well and treating others with kindness. It's a win/win for me. It's those who don't treat others with kindness that brings in the negative aspect. We're all free to have our own beliefs, but we aren't free to shove them down the throats of those around us. That's the issue I have with the "religious right". They can't seem to differentiate between "sharing their faith" and "forcing their ideas on others" and it makes the people they attack hate all of Christianity in return.
My religious side: You don't have to believe, but I do. My American side: I won't hate you because you don't and I'll defend your right to believe as you choose and will defend others if you try to force anything upon them.

From my point of view Jesus message are full of spiritual knowledge but there are traps of duality and ego in the bible and understanding the core message behind is the key. If people use the bible as exclussion of people and an egot trip then they probably have not understood the message at all. I do not know if Jesus ever was here but if he was or not do not really matter. Buddha gave the same message from his point of view and others have come before and after. There are people in the Christian Religon that rise above the religon and get it but I do belive most are totaly blind (my view and I am trying to disprove it but have to little data to support the opposite view) but lets hope that changes. Lets hope all Christians someday become true Christians (Saintlike people) and learn to see beyond duality and lose their ego at least temporaily.

God do not work in mysterious ways from my point of view, it is only mysterious to the people who do not understand the law of attraction and synchronicity and cannot connect and always dream. We create heaven or hell (the connection to everything or disconnection from everything) by our actions and thoughts. You do not have to worry if your view/religon is a bit off. Human smallmindedness create dogma and duality. God removes it and brings openmindedness/wisedom. Namaste

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Insightful. But we have to face the fact that it is the blind leading on this planet and most of the people who are not blind is making sure the stay as far away from the corruptive power pyramid as possible. Your chruch and state shoud not have leaders at all from my point of views. Power comes from the people not from above. Anyone who belives otherwise will always get a rude awakening sooner or later. Representive democracy have failed long ago and should have been scraped for direct democracy where things get decided on as local level as possible.

Lol! People can't even leave this right, left crap out of their religion. How the hell can you be one with two friggin' sides?? I've damn near lost hope in most of humanity.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

I think the difference is that there are more religions in our country than just Christianity. Even though that is my belief system, I shouldn't have the right, given by the government, to condemn someone else's beliefs. I don't want my own choice of beliefs to be forbidden or outlawed or taken away and I don't want to take away someone else's. Perhaps in the smaller populations at the time of Plato, it was easier to find less diversity, but in today's world, the belief systems have grown exponentially. I don't want the government, the ruler of all the people, to be dictated by any religious system completely. They can all have input and bring up things that are for the betterment of society as a whole, but I don't want them to be able to force all others to "go away" or conform to their standards.
I do see what you are saying, how our individual beliefs merge when it comes to politics and spirituality, but as a country, the whole population, we would have to allow everyone to have input and not discriminate against or toward one group or another unless their belief system included human sacrifice or something that would harm someone else.
Perhaps I dream of a world where the government is simple and fair for all, and spirituality is chosen by the individual. I'm definitely not in line with those who are outspoken in the Christian realm at the present time, but there was a time when this belief had much more support. I just hope that time can come again. I have no issue living/working beside those of the Muslim faith, Jewish faith, Bhuddist faith or any other faith they may hold as long as their main principle is to not harm others in practicing that faith.

edit on 12-5-2012 by PurpleChiten because: correction of type

Again we are close.

The thing is, you have condemned Christianity as it is based on human sacrifice.
Take away Jesus and his immoral vicarious redemption via his human sacrifice and Christianity, as we know it, dies. As it should. It should never have turned to literal belief as it ties Jesus to arguably the most immoral God on offer from the O.T.

Care to give your thoughts on that as well as whether you would allow the following to just live and let live without us going against them?

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Insightful. But we have to face the fact that it is the blind leading on this planet and most of the people who are not blind is making sure the stay as far away from the corruptive power pyramid as possible. Your chruch and state shoud not have leaders at all from my point of views. Power comes from the people not from above. Anyone who belives otherwise will always get a rude awakening sooner or later. Representive democracy have failed long ago and should have been scraped for direct democracy where things get decided on as local level as possible.

I read this as well as your other post.

Jews, as usual, have more insight into religion that the Christians that usurped your God and reversed many of Your God's better attributes. Literal reading put the other nails in his coffin. A shame. Christians forgot their roots.

As to your notion of staying away from the corruptive influences. On this I do not agree.
Lest we forget that Jesus, when chastised by his disciples for hanging about with publicans, he replied something like, a doctor goes to the sick as the well have no use for him. Or some such thing.

It is our duty to humanity to correct what we see as defective.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by poloblack
Lol! People can't even leave this right, left crap out of their religion. How the hell can you be one with two friggin' sides?? I've damn near lost hope in most of humanity.

I gave this to P C earlier. Seems you missed it and it's message.

Regards
DL

======================================

Originally posted by Greatest I am

We are on the same page so I will do a quick hit here just to give you what I hope will find interesting.

It fits your avatar and my pet saying, analogically speaking for both religions and politics, that one cannot fly just on one wing and that both right and left have to be strong or the bird will just fly in a circle.

blog.ted.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I'll clarify that what I am talking about mixing religion with politics. It just shouldn't be done. It sullies religion and it corrupts politics.
People should be allowed to have their own relationship with God and either attend church or not attend church or choose no relationship at all. The government should not be trying to dictate what anyone's religion is. That's how governments end up falling and being taken over by theocracies. My Church and my State shouldn't have the same leaders. The church shouldn't make laws and the government shouldn't focus on spiritual matters.

Oops. I said we were on the same page before reading your next reply.
We are partly on the same page.

Have you ever read Plato?.

Basically, he and I see man as being made up of two natures. A political nature that looks after the character and needs of the body, and a spiritual soul nature that seeks the highest forms of what a good man and his political nature is forced to compromise on. Political man cannot turn off his spiritual nature when discussing politics just as our spiritual side cannot turn off our political side when discussing religion.

Both theology and philosophy, at the end of the day are the same.
Both work to develop the best set of rules and laws to live and love by.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Insightful. But we have to face the fact that it is the blind leading on this planet and most of the people who are not blind is making sure the stay as far away from the corruptive power pyramid as possible. Your chruch and state shoud not have leaders at all from my point of views. Power comes from the people not from above. Anyone who belives otherwise will always get a rude awakening sooner or later. Representive democracy have failed long ago and should have been scraped for direct democracy where things get decided on as local level as possible.

I read this as well as your other post.

Jews, as usual, have more insight into religion that the Christians that usurped your God and reversed many of Your God's better attributes. Literal reading put the other nails in his coffin. A shame. Christians forgot their roots.

As to your notion of staying away from the corruptive influences. On this I do not agree.
Lest we forget that Jesus, when chastised by his disciples for hanging about with publicans, he replied something like, a doctor goes to the sick as the well have no use for him. Or some such thing.

It is our duty to humanity to correct what we see as defective.

Regards
DL

Sometimes you have to isolate and quarantine or stay away form the very sick and contagious and heal the ones that are less sick before you fix the extreme cases. Do you truely help the humanity if you get sick in the progress? Fixing the less sick also give you an ally that will heal others. Sometimes being careful is more wiser. If I go after everything that is defective then I will miss the strategic points that would make the biggest differance. Choose your battles and let the ones who do not want to change live thru their own choices. It is like a drug addict or person living in abuse. You cannot help them until they understand that they have a problem and want to change. Trying to heal them will sometimes only prolongt the agony both for you and for them.

Thanks for showing that Jesus was wrong.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by arpgme
Or you can realize that Christianity is a false religion by doing some research of Christianity and how it relates to astrotheology and other Pagan gods.

Education is the answer to ignorance, especially for those who desperately feel like they "NEED" to control other's lives.

You are welcome to your opinion. If it is right, I'll be happy in an eternal afterlife and if it is wrong, then I'm living well and treating others with kindness. It's a win/win for me. It's those who don't treat others with kindness that brings in the negative aspect. We're all free to have our own beliefs, but we aren't free to shove them down the throats of those around us. That's the issue I have with the "religious right". They can't seem to differentiate between "sharing their faith" and "forcing their ideas on others" and it makes the people they attack hate all of Christianity in return.
My religious side: You don't have to believe, but I do. My American side: I won't hate you because you don't and I'll defend your right to believe as you choose and will defend others if you try to force anything upon them.

I couldn't agree more. Shoving religion down anyone's throat has never been effective. In fact, in the Mormon thread where we had some discussion I mentioned the question Christ posed, "Who do men say that I am?" I think that's the perfect model for Christians of all varieties to present their religion. A question posed doesn't require anything of either side but some thorough and thoughtful reflection. God will do the rest. I'm willing to bet we'd all get along a lot better and get a lot further if we stopped yelling at the "other side" and simply learned to present the right questions.