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Death by UFO!

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posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by stirling
Uh, i think you forgot Capt Mantel, And the crew of the F 94 night fighter capt Moncla, and his back seater whom i dont know.....
other military aircraft have also gone down in UFO circumstances as well as the Fredrich Valentich dissapearance out of Australia en route to King island......
Hundreds more may also have been be taken out of the skies by these very real machines......specially in the late 40s and early fifties......airliners even.....
Sure people are nuts, its a fact of life, but they would be nutty over some other subject should UFOs have never existed.....dont you think?


I'm sure that Lt. Moncla appreciates the posthumous promotion to rank of captain. ;-)
They were flying in an F-89 (not F-94) and were about fifteen miles into Canadian territory at the time the fighter merged with the bogie and then disappeared from radar.
His radar operator was 2nd Lt. Robert L. Wilson from Ponca City, OK.

More info available here:
Kinross Mystery

A similar mystery involving the disappearance of a USAF F-94 near Otis AFB in MA occurred a month before the Kinross Incident on October 27, 1953. The official account was some sort of fire in the engine precipitated the bailout (no mention of a UFO) but stories did emerge linking the jet's disappearance to an encounter with a UFO. The pilot, Lt. Arledge Sugg's ejected and was found wandering and in distress. The F-94 jet and the radar operator Lt. David Barckhoff were never found. It was believed the jet crashed into Falmouth Bay but the Air Force was unable to locate the aircraft or missing R.O., even after "months of dredging". While it is difficult to confirm if any UFO was ever involved, it is very strange they were unable to locate the jet wreckage. The pilot bailed below 6000 feet and momentarily blacked out - he failed to dislodge from his seat before pulling the cord. The pilot reported that he heard a second explosion after he bailed from the aircraft.
edit on 12-5-2012 by bluestreak53 because: more info added




posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by A boy in a dress
 


How did you see the world after this glimpse? Is it different from before your
experience?

Of definitely. This occurred whilst I was a young man. My whole belief system was shattered. Before was a lifetime up bringing of religious dogma and brainwashing. That anything that wasn't from the church or bible was the devil.
Easy to hindsight now, but at the time it opened my eyes to untold possibilities that no one seemed to know anything about. This was the late 70's by the way. Before internet,video, cellphones, etc. If you didn't tell your family, neighbors, friends or coworkers (who at that time would think you were crazy)...

So I been carrying this around for decades and now on the internet I can say that yah, remove all doubt, they are real and I have seen em. What, who, why, I can't say just that our understanding of the Universe and all that is therein has been grossly misunderstood up till now (nowadays). Thank god(?) that a simple fly by was able to wake me up.

I think that people who cry for disclosure really want to know the truth of it. More power to them. But I have trouble from time to time still cause like I said seeing and really knowing anything about it are two different things. So ignorant ape to watchful observer. I come here to these threads and other places cause I want to see what others say and find out more about it. Forgive me for debunking a lot, I do do that. But I know what they look like and how they behave. That gives me a certain insight.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I've seen a couple of genuine UFOs (in company) and they haven't changed my life at all. What they have done is allow me a margin of understanding when I read other reports. When others argue that *all* sightings are misperceptions and hoaxes...I know this isn't entirely true.

Oh good, I was having trouble gauging you. I agree that there is this whole other genre of abduction, galactic tours (lol) and "teaching", all of which I am not belittling but can't really sort the wheat from the chaff either. I am sure that others think their experience as real as I do mine (or you yours). Good tongue in cheek stuff your OP. I seen some weird reports and read some weird books too about the early days (before meds).

So you saw them too In company like me, huh? Then you know as well that what you saw was not earth technology and yet, was technology. Thats a fuzzy feeling ain't it? A sureness of conviction that you can't prove and don't really need to either. I vacillate on whether or not I will bring my tale, something keeps pushing me to... and then I shy cause of the haters and those who scoff. We''ll see.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I want to believe



For thousands of years people have gazed at the heavens, wanting to believe. And for thousands of years they have. Supernatural beings that decend from the sky to bring their wisdom or their wrath. Close encounters of every kind.

They believed so much that for thousands of years they were willing to torture and murder each other over who's was bigger, badder and better. How many millions have died?

Of course, I'm not comparing ufology to a religion, although there are similarities. The main difference though is that modern alien believers aren't likely to tie you to a stick and cover you in petrol. And as for nut-job UFO believers, well, they come along once in an artificial moon.

I like ufology. I like the wacky characters it throws up, the unbelievable (and yet somehow believable) events and stories it brings forth. It's silly and yet could be potentially world changing. It stands barefoot and blurry-eyed on the precipice of sanity, shouting at the top of it's voice things that intrigue us all, even if some of us dare not admit it.

Let's give EBE 2,000 years and see where we stand at the end of it.

Great thread mate, as per



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by bluestreak53
 

Here is one that I have followed off and on since it first broke. This involves all elements of a classic encounter abduction case. Over time the story has grown into its own genre with multitudes of information that boggle the mind. The neat thing is until recently these guys tried to hide form the money and the exposure, the experience in fact ruined their lives. They never asked for it all and wished it never happened. Now in a different era, they have begun to come together and retell their tale for the first time to an inquisitive, more open world.

This is a recent interview that for those who are aware of their story will show how they have never wavered despite enormous pressure and bribery.

Travis Walton, Fire in the Sky



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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..................................
edit on 12-5-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 

Awesome thread K. It would seem that people have always looked for a savior in one form or another. Whether it be a person, an event, or otherworldly. I'm no different. I spent a good portion of my life looking for a savior. But I finally came to the conclusion the only savior we're ever going to have is us. We either get it together individually and collectively. Or we don't.

I truly feel sorry for these folks. Speaking of which...



Whatever the source of the ‘voices,’ the result is frequently negative. Reality is plucked away and unravelled as the victim/believer overturns consensus reality and exchanges it for a handful of threads that are invisible to anyone but other sufferers.



Turning away from consensus reality, they discuss the ‘secret signals’ being received from other dimensions. Clock displays, media messages and other stimuli become confirmation of their perceived reality.

These are both very interesting statements. Especially your choice of phrases highlighted in bold. Not that I'm trying to make a conspiracy out of your choice of wording. But rather, I'm curious as to the nuances of your statements.

Are you saying what we have agreed upon as a collective, isn't necessarily so? Or just leaving room for speculation? Or both? Or neither?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Great thread!

The title at first made me laugh but when I saw it was you I knew it wasn't going to be that type of thread.






posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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I assume that there was some point in pointing the sad stories of a few handful of idiots. But I'm not sure what it was.

Shall we run a similar thread on the believers in Obama, McDonald's, or the poor quality of Chinese goods?
And let us not utter a word about all of the silly, crazy and absolutely evil things that have been done in the name of religion.

If you want to just shrug and say, "Oh, don't take it too seriously, it is just entertainment," then I would have to disagree. It is a form of distructive entertainment, hinging upon the human capacityy (fault?) to believe in something beyond what Science/goverment would have. And you know, most of those cited idiots believed in something beyond the typical Westerner's desires for consuming materialistic goods. You really have to ask, who are the crazy ones? Those that believe in some fashion in powerful ETs or those that smirk at the suggestion?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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Oooook the great magician Kandinsky!

Bow before him, kiss his shoes! I facepalm every time I see that kind of attitude towards a nobody (WAIT being aol old member on a random forum IS sombeody AHA what an importance and impact on humanity on this planet). I'm disturbed how some members can just fall for and really worship another, that means they cannot think for themselves. Amazing - nobrainers on ATS who are like ZOMG Kandinsky, listen to his every word, bow before him! Let me not quote names, they would be too many. What are some of you thinking some ATSers are your Truth? Why would you listen to some ATSer Opinion who has no background of real research or involvement whatsoever?

So, OK there are people who turn it into religion, go crazy about it, SO What do you bring here? Too much UFOs is harmful? Damn it, too much everything is harmful! Good morning? What makes you think some cases could not be non-human, non-aerial intelligent, phenomena . Oh here is what:

I wouldn't have such attitude if you weren't like 'Weeoh Im so over UFOs now Im a PRO debunker and everyone should listen to me and all cases are explained and now im skeptic and all I say is the truth! Blah blah blah. But hey I am neither an astronomer or a scientist or an agent or a military or a top secret agent, but I SPEAK!


Why im posting this? Because I can see where the human SO PREDICTABLE thinking will go such as yours, and since you have shown your attitude, unlike the majority here who read but don't go between the lines, it is clear - you want to disregard the whole topic of UFOs, that's the attitude you post with, you sound like an angry guy who's been disappointed and now wants to punish the whole topic on that disappointment.

At first when I read the thread I thought it was gonna be about physical death by UFOs - radiation, other cases, etc. Only then I realized who is posting it and why - to say 'the whole visitation stories IS CERTAINLY false (why, do you have proof to show all are man made?), Listen to me because I dont believe them anymore' - THAT's what this thread is about.

Hey why do you even stay here on UFO Forums? ATS has a lot more other forums. Your Opinions make a difference only to mindless, thoughtless who can't think for themselves like (let me not mention the names here)

Go become a debunker, skeptic, i dont give a fck, your opinion is YOUR opinion, go away.

If you had any sense of SCIENCE you would know that with the number of earthlike planets and some who we may not even know about, the possibility of intelligent life (as if it needs Earth conditions anyway) is big, SO IS visitation. Because you cannot just throw away tons of papers and say OH IT IS ALL FOR MAN MADE STUFF... without any proof

Science is open for possibilities, when you don't know for a fact, you can't be sure, also welcome to the pseudo-science community, it is where you belong.
edit on 12-5-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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Its fortunate that most of us dont sit around waiting for UFO rapture, but more concerned with our families and trying to see a better world emerge.


edit on 12-5-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by xpoq47
 


I wonder what UFOs might have had to do with the demise of Secretary James Forrestal and of Dr. James McDonald.


McDonald's death was a tragedy and I'm not sure that anyone has replaced him ever since. There's an idea that his death was something sinister. I don't think it was. It was more the result of his personality and ongoing psychological issues. I don't say this out of opinion, but through hearing and reading the comments of the people who knew him best and those of his family. If you'd like more information feel free to u2u me and I'll give you everything I have.

It wasn't his first attempt at suicide and he wasn't purely focused on UFOs either.

This part is my opinion - McDonald found living a hard thing to do. He excelled at what he applied himself to and struggled to understand why others didn't recognise the logic behind his actions. At our lowest points, logic and reason become distorted and we lose our way. McDonald lost his way and pulled that trigger whilst in the depths of a depressive mood state.

In many ways, I identify with him and have nothing but admiration for the way he tried to stand his ground. Sadly, depression isn't selective and can hit successful people as easily as anyone else.

reply to post by LiveForever8
 
I'm glad you enjoyed it and you're also one of the guys whose opinions I respect. There's more to all this than the transparent battle-lines drawn by extremists.


...barefoot and blurry-eyed on the precipice of sanity.


Nice phrasing, accurate and an example of why I respect your style


reply to post by Klassified
 



These are both very interesting statements. Especially your choice of phrases highlighted in bold. Not that I'm trying to make a conspiracy out of your choice of wording. But rather, I'm curious as to the nuances of your statements.

Are you saying what we have agreed upon as a collective, isn't necessarily so? Or just leaving room for speculation? Or both? Or neither?


Thanks for posting an interesting observation. Nuance is important.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Man screw this site im sick of arguing with some tards, they think they know anything? Pure pseudos and wannabes. All I'm saying is there is a possibility, all the material about it isn't for man made high tech stuff, not a religion, not a cult, possibility, open mindness where are you?

Look what's going on here, full of SELF-PROCLAIMED 'SKEPTICS' who are not involved in ANY WAY IN THE UFO/GOV CASES and SPEAK AS IF THEY HAVE TO BE TAKEN AS THE ONLY-TRUTH SAYERS

Screw you, Get DOWN to Earth. !! You are no one, in fact less than anyone who at least has been involved. Why doesn't any one real involved person come here? Cause all he would get is the garbage posted by you

No respect for pseudos and self-proclaimed 'experts'

edit on 12-5-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Imtor
 


Did you even read this thread? Or did you just skim it, and make a judgement? Have you read any of the OP's previous posts or threads? You might want to put your tail down, and quit spraying everything until you have at least looked at his history objectively.


edit on 5/12/2012 by Klassified because: punctuation



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Imtor
 
Imtor....what can I say? At best, you've got a great avatar. Otherwise you have a near perfect record of misunderstanding other people and their posts. You've just managed to insult the intelligence of everyone in the thread (again) and will pop up on another thread doing the same thing.


reply to post by Aliensun
 
You're a miserable SoB but I always read your posts and have starred quite a few of them. In my opinion, you've posted some interesting comments and threads.

It's fascinating that you're so defensive about the reality of ufology you'll go to war over the mildest criticism.

I mentioned Dorothy Martin being an inspiration for the concept of cognitive dissonance and here you go exemplifying it. Rather than face up to the problems of ufology, you deflect attention with strawman BS about 'Obama, McDonald's, or the poor quality of Chinese goods.'



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Imtor
 


Did you even read this thread. Or did you just skim it, and make a judgement? Have you read any of the OP's previous posts or threads? You might want to put your tail down, and quit spraying everything until you have at least looked at his history objectively.



Can you see through a thread not just read it? What the purpose of that was? I posted it in the long thread above, he has once been a believer and unlike him I've always been objective, now he's just put himself a title 'expert skeptic' and his thread is with the purpose to say how crazy UFO stories can be that some go crazy or mentally or may even commit a suicide.

Ok - many other lies can commit a suicide - unlike you I know his attitude towards the UFO phenomena, and this thread is exactly what I said above 'I do not believe alien visits cause I got disappointed frm the topic, so I am now posting to ridicule the topic and call it a religion'

Then all the 'experts' come post their lack knowledge opinion



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I know your attitude, and everyone has a right about opinion. Problem is you are making the thread to ridicule the UFO/alien topic and say how absurd this is because you do not believe it anymore... this is what the thread is about, Please, I can read someone's thoughts by thinking logically why he does it, I can be a psychologist to some extent
edit on 12-5-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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if God works in mysterious ways, satan doesn't.

if that guy was hearing someone tell him the end of the world is near, shouldn't he be asking for proof.

and since Jesus said in the New Testament that only God knows when the end is, since its basically whenever He wants it to, that guy should have known better.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by bluestreak53
 

Here is a very interesting account of a man from Vancouver Island who's disappearance was linked to his obsession with UFOs.

Granger Taylor's disappearance


I've got a copy of UFO-Joe's site on my hard-drive and missed this account. If it's true, it's pretty interesting. There doesn't seem to be enough details to make a decision on the authenticity of the story. The wikipedia implies he died by explosives but who knows?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, dead of a heart attack at age 37. One can easily imagine that the politics of the UFO question contributed to sending him to an early grave.



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