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WWIII U.S.vs. China

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posted on May, 12 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


You will forgive for not rising to the bait.

I'm not interested in bellicose nonsense from a misinformed adolescent who has not served a day of military service and has little understanding of the tactics, strategy, logistics and technology necessary to support your argument.

If you can refrain from the sophomoric commentary and are interested in continuing an mature discussion based in fact, not fantastical hyperbole, I will ask again...


Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
Why do nearly all of the fantastical internet scenarios predicting a massive defeat of U.S. conventional forces always rely on the flawless operation of untested, hypothetical weapons systems within a convenient vacuum where the gullible and overconfident U.S. plays into the adversaries advantage?




posted on May, 12 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


Again,I dont find the American Military to be impressive.

Its like the Tet Offensive. Those guys should never have been able to pull that off. Americans like to downplay how great the Viet Congs were. They shocked the Americans with the Tet offensive and the Tet Offensive was the turning point. Soon after the American Military puts its last troop on a helicoptor on top of their embassy there and runs away. Thats what happened.

The Tet Offensive is one of my favourite military actions. Its right up there with the Bay Of Pigs.

And America has trouble dealing with a bunch of Taliban on Dirt Bikes.

America only ever attacks countries that they should destroy but they always have trouble.

Whenever you hear anyone talk about the American Soldiers they always say how soft they are. The Aussies are harder,the Canadians are harder. I think its your culture.Like how much armour do you need to play a game of football? All that stuff looks stupid and is not needed. Helmets? Its soft.

And your opposition always fights harder.

America fights primarily with Air Strikes on countries that have no defense against this tactic. Its weak.

And you cant deal with China and its friends. No chance.

Edit- and do you have an opinion yourself? Or do you prefer to use those posted by others in other forums?

And it will be an 'opinion'.
edit on 12-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



edit on 12-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Native populations have the advantage of the lay of the land. They know all the nooks and crannies, so to speak. So any engagement on foreign soil is a real pain to win. I think they (China) would have just as much trouble taking the mainland as we (the US) would with them. And again, with our massive military machine, probably more so.

Also, I believe our troops are some of the best in the world. The trouble with our recent engagements is that the people didn't support it. We support the troops as people, but not the operation, and that plays a big part, just as it did in WW2. We supported the effort, and we were more effective. The solider on the line has to believe he or she is making a real difference, I don't think we really had that since before Nam'.

As for overplaying WW2, I'd ask those we freed from the camps. They seem to think we did alright. Ofcourse, I know we couldn't have done it without the Russians and the Brits. Anyone who thinks the US would've won WW2 solo doesn't realize just how close Hitler came to fulfilling those nutty promises of global domination.

A final note, in Justice League: New Frontier, Wonder Woman has an excellent quote: "it's changed since the war. Back then, we were in the right. Simpler. They still say they're in the right, but they don't always act that way."

It also ends with an excellent Kennedy quote I thought worth sharing:

www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


Why do nearly all of the fantastical internet scenarios predicting a massive defeat of U.S. conventional forces always rely on the flawless operation of untested, hypothetical weapons systems within a convenient vacuum where the gullible and overconfident U.S. plays into the adversaries advantage?

Untested, hypothetical war scenarios by Generals always pose the worst case scenario. Thats their job. But lets not underestimate the "enemy" either. From David and Goliath, the Trojan horse, the Vietnamese tunneling under foot, etc., history is full of examples that remind us we ought not puff up with our own superiority.

But instead of trying to convince you that we are already shown to be vulnerable, I'll leave you with this.


That China’s submarines are surfacing boldly near U.S. warships is a telltale sign of newer advanced technologies, such as acoustic tiles and cavitation-reducing propellers, that are being employed on the submarines, says Stitt.

China’s new Song-class diesel submarines have tracked U.S. Navy ships operating in the seas near Japan and Taiwan. Last November, after China denied the USS Kitty Hawk’s port call in Hong Kong at the last minute, a Chinese submarine shadowed the carrier as it entered the Taiwan Straits on its return voyage to Yokosuka, Japan. In the late fall of 2006, a Song-class submarine surfaced within torpedo range of the Kitty Hawk off the coast of Okinawa, Japan.
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

That must have been an eye opening event for the Kitty Hawk. No need to overwhelm with numbers here, they only need one to get thru a carrier groups defenses.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


WE ARE RESTRAINED,rules...and a great measure of mercy stop us from going medieval on our enemies.And rightly so.Now they are whining about waterboarding,hell that is in a school we have for pilots.We aren't good at occupying anything at all because we don't like doing that,it goes against our military doctrine and history we fail when we try.We kill.We are shock troops not so good at taking over things.But in fighting,we are unsurpassed.We have no peers in conventional combat,this IS in most books.We and the Brits kill per man at10 to one (ANZAC forces are Brits to the US Military because you usually fall under their command)That is because until about 1990 or so we believed our government.We appear to be faltering because of "spring cleaning" that should have been done when these clowns offed JFK,since then the military has been hobbled misused and crippled by political considerations not to mention experimented on. Not to mention the failing banks that the criminals have used to order the military to fight for.I don't know what books you read about our wars but you haven't been to one so learn from someone who has.Watching "Odd Angry Shot" doesn't count as a source nor do 80% of text books.Your chip is rather obvious as is your age here.
But your type of drivel is also a mark of cultural education.A week before Desert Shield we as the advanced party were briefed by the S2 that when the ground war started 1/7 Cav( a combined arms brigade) would take 50% losses on the 1st engagement,because we were a primary forward element.
I did reply the idea was wrong ,middle eastern armies don't do well in a stand up fight, they tend to fall back and regroup when someone bloodies their nose.I added it would take a week if all expected assets are in place when the ground fighting starts and I was beyond sure where ever the US soldier stands we would have the air,and still do.
I will also inform you we won't have martial law to round up citizens but we may soon have one to round up these criminals that i have mentioned and then,thanks to free thinking we will be back this time to rebuild instead of taking things and leading in ideas and technology...again, which is why everyone wants to come here.
Because if we fall the world follows and the criminals have won.I would of course be dead.
edit on 12-5-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: mispells



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by cavtrooper7
 


The rest of that was brainwashed drivel. I can tell the books you read are American.

But this is such nonsense.



thanks to free thinking we will be back this time to rebuild instead of taking things and leading in ideas and technology...again, which is why everyone wants to come here.


You think people want to come to your hell hole of a country? Think again. The Mexicans dont even want to come anymore. You guys are in alot of trouble.

edit on 12-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by swampcricket
reply to post by Germanicus
 


Hey a******, let's see you Mexicans beat Americans. It would be like soapy water(us) vs. wasps(you all).


I didnt insult you personally.

My opinion is that your country is a mess and your military cant save you. Fair enough if you disagree but there is no need to call me an #hole. There is no need for the other attempt at an insult either. Whatever that meant.

Edit- Im Austalian by the way.
edit on 12-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


Again,I dont find the American Military to be impressive.


The modern U.S. military is the most capable force in history. That you don't find it to be impressive is inconsequential and frankly, somewhat disingenuous.

When has there ever been another arsenal in the history of mankind with the ability to globaly project overwhelming power and dominate a battlefield on par with the current U.S. armed forces?



Its like the Tet Offensive. Those guys should never have been able to pull that off. Americans like to downplay how great the Viet Congs were. They shocked the Americans with the Tet offensive and the Tet Offensive was the turning point. Soon after the American Military puts its last troop on a helicoptor on top of their embassy there and runs away. Thats what happened. The Tet Offensive is one of my favourite military actions.

Its right up there with the Bay Of Pigs

The 1968 Tet offensive was a strategic failure that broke the NVA as an effective fighting force for the remaining duration of U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia. Tet was a symbolic turning point in U.S. domestic support for the war as Walter Cronkite's famous stalemate comment attests. While Tet could be retrospectively considered a political victory of sorts, at the time it was a military disaster for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

In December of 1972 the Richard Nixon ordered the unrestricted strategic bombing of North Vietnam and the aerial mining of Haiphong harbour for the first time in the war which forced the Democratic Republic of Vietnam to make peace with the Republic of Vietnam per the Paris accords.

The Christmas 1972 B-52 raids destroyed the North's infrastructure and military so effectively that the North considered unconditional capitulation. When North Vietnam signed the ceasefire documents in early 1973 they were devastated both militarily and economically. The conditions of the cease fire were that if the North resumed hostilities, the unrestricted bombing would resume.

The U.S. fell into political turmoil culminating in the resignation of president Nixon in 1974.

In 1975 the North launched a massive offensive against the south. They gambled, correctly, that the U.S. had lost the political will to recommit its military.

The Vietnam war ended in a political victory for the communists however it was by no means a military defeat for the U.S. contrary to popular misconception.


And America has trouble dealing with a bunch of Taliban on Dirt Bikes.

America only ever attacks countries that they should destroy but they always have trouble.

Whenever you hear anyone talk about the American Soldiers they always say how soft they are. The Aussies are harder,the Canadians are harder. I think its your culture.Like how much armour do you need to play a game of football? All that stuff looks stupid and is not needed. Helmets? Its soft.

And your opposition always fights harder.


Both Australia and Canada have extremely competent, well trained and highly motivated military personnel. You have both highly valued allies whose contribution to the current geo-political mess called "the war on terror" has been invaluable.

As far as U.S. troops being "soft", when you have manned up and stood side by side in the field with professional soldiers your opinion might hold some weight.

Until then your juvenile comments are nothing but disrespectful tripe, at least have the character to save it until you run into some of the USMC currently on deployment in Australia.




America fights primarily with Air Strikes on countries that have no defense against this tactic. Its weak.


What a ridiculous statement. Air superiority has been a paramount requirement on the battlefield for nearly 100 years. I take it that you have to concede the current U.S. capability for global aerial dominance so rather than acknowledge the fact you try to minimise the impact as somehow weak?



And you cant deal with China and its friends. No chance.


You may want to acquaint yourself with current events. Chinese relations with Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, South Korea and the Philippines are all strained. How many of those same countries are close U.S. allies?

Russia is every bit as distrustful and worried with China as it is with the west.

In short, exactly which friends do you believe China has that would be willing to go to war against the U.S. military?





Edit- and do you have an opinion yourself? Or do you prefer to use those posted by others in other forums?

And it will be an 'opinion'.


Facts are not subjective





posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


The Tet Offensive is one of my favourite military actions. Its right up there with the Bay Of Pigs.



The Tet offensive was a military failure—for the North Vietnamese.

North Vietnam failed to take any major South Vietnamese city except for Hue, from which they were ejected within a month—but not until after massacring over 3,000 South Vietnamese civilians, an episode only lightly reported by the media.

Except for Khe Sanh, Hue, and one or two other locations, the enemy offensive was spent within a few days. By the end of February Hanoi was ordering a general retreat, which ironically happened to coincide with the moment of maximum pessimism in Washington.

Out of a total attack force of 84,000 troops, nearly 50,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong were killed in Tet. These losses decimated the Viet Cong, destroying their command structure and morale among troops.

Viet Cong offensive capabilities suffered and dwindled for the next three years; much of the rest of the war was fought by North Vietnamese regular army troops. Viet Cong defections increased dramatically in the aftermath of Tet.

The U.S. suffered 1,100 dead; the South Vietnamese lost 2,300.

Indeed it can be argued that General Giap botched the attack; having achieved tactical surprise, the attack was dispersed too widely, with not enough troops in any one location to score decisively.


The Tet Offensive Dialogues



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 

That was the most elaborate foment from you yet. The "We lost the war in Vietnam but really won it" reserve clause.
pffft...



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 





As far as U.S. troops being "soft", when you have manned up and stood side by side in the field with professional soldiers your opinion might hold some weight.


As soon as they start a war that I believe in I will be on the front lines. If the Spanish Civil War was on right now I would be there. I dont consider the hunt for Osama and friends to be anything more than bs. And Saddams WMD's were selling oil in the euro.

And I am a man. I dont back down from anyone.

WW1 was the first time a bomb was dropped from a plane. The French did to the Germans.
And the Tet Offensive proves you wrong. You guys are gullable. The Congs snuck all that weaponry into position under your noses and then shocked your forces. It was the decisive battle. America's tactics were flawed all along. You guys were outmatched by farmers and peasants.

And then America runs away. I have seen footage of the last helicopter to leave. its kinda sickening to watch.

And I may see you on the front lines in the future. I dont have a problem with Americans but I like many do have a problem with the American Government. I can see something similar to the spanish Civil War happening soon in Europe. I will be there. On the front lines. If you are Im sure we will be on different sides.
edit on 12-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 



And then America runs away. I have seen footage of the last helicopter to leave. its kinda sickening to watch.



After 57,000 dead sons, fathers and brothers over a ten year war that turned America inside out fighting for a country that nobody in the U.S. had heard of before 1965, many of whose people did not want us involved?

We can agree on that, it was worse than sickening to watch.





You do know that Australia made a significant contribution in support of the Republic of Vietnam and paid a hard price as well?


The Vietnam War was the longest major conflict in which Australians have been involved; it lasted ten years, from 1962 to 1972, and involved some 60,000 personnel. A limited initial commitment of just 30 military advisers grew to include a battalion in 1965 and finally, in 1966, a task force. Each of the three services was involved, but the dominant role was played by the Army...

... Involvement in the war cost more than 500 Australian servicemen their lives, while some 3,000 were wounded, otherwise injured or were victims of illness.


Australia and The Vietnam War



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 

That was the most elaborate foment from you yet. The "We lost the war in Vietnam but really won it" reserve clause.
pffft...


My point is that the end of the Vietnam war was much more complex than some have been lead to believe by the contemporary narrative.

Feel free to check my facts, everything I have posted is on the level.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by stuthealien
reply to post by Germanicus
 


can you not just be friends with china,,there really nice people ,,guess it is your goverment trying to convince you there bad


Our government is definitely not trying to make China look bad.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


My point is that the end of the Vietnam war was much more complex than some have been lead to believe by the contemporary narrative.

Oh, I agree. My point is that the seeming complex issues were really just fodder designed for mass consumption. The real war was a protracted winless affair against an unbeatable foe that was intentionally designed by the American Military Industrial Complex to burn as much hardware as possible in order to make as much money as possible. It is still being done to this day.

See Afghanistan.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by swampcricket
Due to the economic uprise and the power of the Chinese government and milatary do you foresee ww3 being a pan Asian conflict with the U.S. and china being the main countrys coing . to . due to the aggressiveness of the Chinese claims of territories in the south china sea.


Nah, I see the U.S. collapsing and a new Dark Ages occurring, only this time, on a global scale. History repeats itself.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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I think WW3 will be a combination of removing weapons of mass destruction from the Middle East, continuing to fight the war on drugs in Mexico/South America, and possibly restoring order to African nations.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


As I said I was IN FRONT during Desert Storm oh "powerful" "man" what conflict have you been in.A talking hot . who is as controllable on a battle field as he is on a thread like you would be an easy kill.I am an expert marksman I always was,even though assault rifles are a bit inaccurate compared to a good turn bolt.I was a pro in the BEST military force EVER fielded from the US at the time.On what do you base YOUR opinion? I didn't read book I was THERE.I did it what makes you such a frightful creature that could hold a candle to the worst US Army scout currently serving?I'll recon your ass in your own country with a full ruck and gear.You would be moving inapproprately,leaving signs and be taken out with a knife.I did it to a hunter who was pretty good in the field.
This is 19D Cav Scout served in A troop 1/7 Cav Headhunter 15e.Who the hell are you boy?
edit on 13-5-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
I was born here. My parents were born here. I have Irish/English/Spanish.

And yes many Australians are morons.

And if you disagree with anything I have said I would love to hear it.


Your hatred for the USA and Australia are clear.

You have expressed your admiration for Hitler in another posts and described yourself as a national socialist. In fact you even went as far as claiming you were Hitler's child in another thread.

Is that why you hate the USA? He described the Americans as an unintelligent Mongrel race.

Google Books

On the other hand, he was a huge admirer of the British Empire and by extension Australia.


He (Hitler) then astonished us by speaking with admiration of the British Empire, of the necessity for its existence, and of the civilization that Britain had brought into the world. He remarked, with a shrug of the shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had been achieved by means that were often harsh, but 'where there is planing, there are shavings flying'. He compared the British Empire with the Catholic Church - saying they were both essential elements of stability in the world.

General Guenther Blumentritt

Spartacus Educational - Adolf Hitler


I am just wondering how you reconcile your hatred for your own country, Australia, with your stance as the child of Hitler and a National Socialist?



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