Nosy exam question asks 3rd graders to reveal a "secret". Parents outraged.

Also wanted to add... who is it that thinks children aren't stripped from their families at a to young age for anything other than indoctrination? Nowadays, nothing is sacred.

When I was growing up there was a definite boundry between student rights versus safety. Our lockers and our persons were not subject to searches unless we got caught doing something wrong. Thats why they called them "lock"ers.

Today in the name of student teacher safety anything goes. And what better way to undermine any notion of privacy or personal freedom than to early on derail any notion of same? Good example of how the times have changed. Of course they want your children to think it's ok to tell secrets. God, Hitler Youth here we come again?

They do it to adults too. Are we blind?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by 11azerus11
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

i think your giving them too much credit... and i do not c the logical connection with that question... i don't think it's really intelligence gathering either but rather getting the children use to reporting on the people around them

Again, the idea is to get a kid to NOT tell the secret. It is simple logic.

i still dont see it..does anybody else see this?.... i just see propaganda... sorry

Reading through some of the replies on here I find it a sad sign of the times that we have to now resort to lying to our kids and telling them how to best navigate through a broken system rather that fixing it so they dont have traps and pit falls to avoid.

Instead of telling them to watch out for broken glass on the floor why not just get up off our collective asses and clean it up so they dont cut their feet. Have we been dumbed down so far that we cant even look after out own kids?

This is why I dont want any kids. We would only be fueling this corrupt broken and perverted system. They need more sheep and slaves to run the cogs, And we sell them our kids. You know its true. Train them up to be good law abiding citizen no matter how retarded the law is. And when people get more jail time for not paying speeding fines than murder you know its broken. But keep on keeping on im sure some messiah will save you all. keep holding that breath.

Originally posted by dayve
The only parents outraged are the ones doing crap their not suppose to, either to their children, spouse or somethin illegal... cause I'm pretty sure most 3rd grade secrets are petty. Crushes, hate, or cheating/stealing ... stupid parents

its just invasion of privacy... thats it... and just because we want our family lives private doesn't mean something bad is happening either... you basically have the idea that if u got nothing to hide then who cares if they pry... that is just ridicules... let's say when google is ready to use your computer's webcam and mic to report their everyday findings to some agency, you would be the one to have no problem with it because you are not doing anything "Bad"?... just makes no sense to me... why anybody would just give up their privacy...

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
So, can someone in this thread answer me this: If this is about intel-gathering, what intel are they hoping to get from 3rd graders?

i told u already it's not so much about intel-gathering but more about training them early to be snitches

reply to post by FortAnthem


I was a smart a** as a kid and would have replied "my parent thinks your teaching sucks".
ETA: Does not surprise me that this comes out of retardville NJ, OMG they are such an *^%&^$%^ state so glad I left that "Garden of good and evil" MINUS THE GOOD!!!

reply to post by 11azerus11

To be sure, the nosy state that pries into our affairs and monitors our every activity are the ones who carry the most secrets. And just try to pry into theirs. Thats a crime punishable by heavy fines and stiff sentences.

Its getting more and more like Nazi German, already people are told to report "suspicious" neighbours now its the beginning of children spying on their parents.
They should stop pretending and just outfit Homeland Security with black shirts and jack boots.

reply to post by 11azerus11




So in your mind it is more logical that this is about conditioning children than it is about teaching them logic? To take a stance and defend it?

Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".

Again, what I see here is a logic question. Nothing more nothing less.

Wow, this is the second time in a month that a bogus question was asked in what would be considered a "standard" test given to young school children. The last one was some creepy story rolled into a reader comprehension test.

Just who is monitoring the questions that our kids are being exposed to? What is the underlying purpose for such stupid and invasive questions, and who, in the Department of Education, evaluates and approves this garbage?

I am going to find out by drafting a letter to the DoE and find out. If I get something back, I will be certain to post it.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by 11azerus11

 

So in your mind it is more logical that this is about conditioning children than it is about teaching them logic? To take a stance and defend it?

Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".

Again, what I see here is a logic question. Nothing more nothing less.

Very good response. Often times, when learning to write, we are told to take a position and support it. If their position is "secrets are to be kept", they would have stated they wouldn't share it, then explain why. If that's not their position, they could have shared some simple secret, then told why it was acceptable to share it.

Of course, since they are third graders, it was probably not an appropriate question nor skill to be tested. I do know that schools aren't some evil entity that are set up to indoctrinate children, they are are institutions of learning, and are faced with every possible negative aspect of society and expected to "fix them".

If people don't want the schools to "pry", then the people need to stand up and take responsiblity (as a whole, I'm sure there are many individuals that do, but as a whole, society doesn't).
The ones who want to shout "teachers need to teach, not pry" are probably the same ones, on another topic, that would say "why didn't the teacher do anything about that". It's a no-win situation for them.
99% of the problems that exist in a school do not come from the teachers or from the students. It's almost always either the lack of parenting or the lack of competent leadership....or way too much 'leadership' that doesn't lead at all but instead causes more problems than it gives solutions.

reply to post by FortAnthem


what was the question exactly???

Originally posted by charlyv
Wow, this is the second time in a month that a bogus question was asked in what would be considered a "standard" test given to young school children. The last one was some creepy story rolled into a reader comprehension test.

Just who is monitoring the questions that our kids are being exposed to? What is the underlying purpose for such stupid and invasive questions, and who, in the Department of Education, evaluates and approves this garbage?

I am going to find out by drafting a letter to the DoE and find out. If I get something back, I will be certain to post it.

In this particular case, it's the New Jersey Assessment of Skills and Knowledge created by the state department of education for New Jersey under the "No Child Left Behind" act. So, basically, that question was courtesy of George W Bush.
There are MILLIONS of other issues revolving around the NCLB act and it's probably the one thing that has harmed education the most in the past 200 years :/

reply to post by captaintyinknots


The Wall Street Journal Reports:

Susan Engel, a lecturer in psychology and director of the teaching program at Williams University, said the question doesn't sound troubling to her. Asking about secrets is a good way to get children to write, she said. And, she said, children at that age are unlikely to say something that would offend their families, or even bare their own souls. "I think by and large, kids are not going to tell a real secret," she said.

Your certainty it was a "logic" question is further undermined by the uncertainty of a New Jersey education spokesman:

Justin Barra, spokesman for New Jersey's state Education Department, said the state is looking into who wrote the "secret" question. He said the question itself is being tested and that it was vetted for appropriateness by both the department and a panel of teachers. He said it was given in 15 districts to about 4 percent of the third-graders statewide who took the exam. Like other experimental questions, the answers will not count toward students' scores.

As to your assertion that most 3rd graders secrets amount to "Billy kissed Sally" here is what two twin boys answered on that test:

A further complication may be that at least some teachers tell their students that they can make up their answers if they don't have real-life examples to give. What matters, the teachers say, is the form of the writing, not whether what they say is true. As for Goldberg's boys, he said one wrote about breaking a ceiling fan and not telling his dad. The other wrote about the time Goldberg took the boys out of school for a day of skiing — and worried that he might get in trouble for admitting to playing hooky.

ABC News also spoke to Justin Barra:

But after further review, Department of Education spokesman Justin Barra said, the question won't be included in future tests. "We've looked at this question in light of concerns raised by parents, and it is clear that this is not an appropriate question for a state test," Barra said, adding that about 4,000 students in 15 districts had the question.

Page after page after page after page of a simple Google search reveals numerous news reports across the nation regarding this incident, none of them - to the best of my knowledge - supporting your contention this was just a simple "logic" question. What is reported is that the State of New Jersey will no longer be asking this question which is a logical response to the valid concerns parents showed over this question. Of course, logic demands that some actual research be done on the intent of the question before insisting the motive was nothing more than a simple "logic" question.

Edit to Add: Apparently the hyperlink feature cannot handle Google page links. Each of the purple links above takes you to a page of Google asking: "what is the purpose of the New Jersey test asking 3rd graders to reveal a secret. Had the hyperlink feature worked that sentence would have begun:

Page after page after page after page of a simple Google search...

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by 11azerus11

 

Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".

agreed i was thinking the same thing about not knowing how the curriculum lead up to the question... i could just be overly paranoid... but i am right because if i am right then i am right, but if i'm wrong; i'm still right because i could have been right haha

The important issue here is the childhood indoctrination to the idea that personal privacy
is an issue to be regulated by the state. It is not, and it should never be...

Asking a child to tell a secret (as part of a test) gives the question the weight of authority
and with it comes the tacit implication that the state is somehow righteous to ask. It implies that
secrets are to be revealed when questioned by authority, and that the state (rather than
neighbors, family, or friends) should be trusted moreso than one's own conscience.

Once the children are indoctrinated, the road to tyranny is paved.

If you think this argument is fantastic...check your history books. Look up Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung
and Hitler and look at the indoctrination of their respective youth.

Absence of ignorance is not evidence of intelligence, but at least it is a start

Originally posted by rival
The important issue here is the childhood indoctrination to the idea that personal privacy
is an issue to be regulated by the state. It is not, and it should never be...

Asking a child to tell a secret (as part of a test) gives the question the weight of authority
and with it comes the tacit implication that the state is somehow righteous to ask. It implies that
secrets are to be revealed when questioned by authority, and that the state (rather than
neighbors, family, or friends) should be trusted moreso than one's own conscience.

Once the children are indoctrinated, the road to tyranny is paved.

If you think this argument is fantastic...check your history books. Look up Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung
and Hitler and look at the indoctrination of their respective youth.

Absence of ignorance is not evidence of intelligence, but at least it is a start

agreed it doesn't matter what u and i think if we cant stop this because once they are indoctrinated and we've come to pass; a psychotic tyrant is going to lead them right off a cliff

reply to post by FortAnthem


What do these parents have to hide and why make a young child responsible for the information if they do? Either your child can keep a secret or they can't. Many popular children's stories and poems revolve around secrets. I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

What do these parents have to hide and why make a young child responsible for the information if they do? Either your child can keep a secret or they can't. Many popular children's stories and poems revolve around secrets. I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.

Sure, that's the ticket! Richard Goldberg is only using his dental license as a front for this secret meth lab of which he uses his two nine year old twin boys to sell the product. Of course! It's so obvious. Damn that evil Richard Goldberg.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.

I hate this attitude just because I value my privacy doesn't mean i'm cooking meth or hoarding guns even tho i don't think there is anything wrong with the latter one haha and to suggest i'm making my children have sex with strangers is appalling.... do u not like your privacy? I'm surprised that you don't with what you wrote as your headline under your screen name

The GOP game plan is for the affluent and the corporations to control the government essentially an American fascist state.

so when google starts using webcams and mic to "monitor" citizens, your all for it because u have nothing to hide?