Nosy exam question asks 3rd graders to reveal a "secret". Parents outraged., page 8


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reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 07:34 PM by 11azerus11
Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Originally posted by 11azerus11
reply to
post by captaintyinknots



i think your giving them too much credit... and i do not c the logical connection with that question... i don't think it's really intelligence gathering either but rather getting the children use to reporting on the people around them



Again, the idea is to get a kid to NOT tell the secret. It is simple logic.



i still dont see it..does anybody else see this?.... i just see propaganda... sorry


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 07:48 PM by ldyserenity
reply to post by FortAnthem



I was a smart a** as a kid and would have replied "my parent thinks your teaching sucks".
ETA: Does not surprise me that this comes out of retardville NJ, OMG they are such an *^%&^$%^ state so glad I left that "Garden of good and evil" MINUS THE GOOD!!!
edit on 12-5-2012 by ldyserenity because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:36 PM by intrptr
reply to post by 11azerus11


To be sure, the nosy state that pries into our affairs and monitors our every activity are the ones who carry the most secrets. And just try to pry into theirs. Thats a crime punishable by heavy fines and stiff sentences.


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:51 PM by captaintyinknots
reply to post by 11azerus11





So in your mind it is more logical that this is about conditioning children than it is about teaching them logic? To take a stance and defend it?

Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".

Again, what I see here is a logic question. Nothing more nothing less.


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:06 PM by PurpleChiten
Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to
post by 11azerus11





So in your mind it is more logical that this is about conditioning children than it is about teaching them logic? To take a stance and defend it?

Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".

Again, what I see here is a logic question. Nothing more nothing less.


Very good response. Often times, when learning to write, we are told to take a position and support it. If their position is "secrets are to be kept", they would have stated they wouldn't share it, then explain why. If that's not their position, they could have shared some simple secret, then told why it was acceptable to share it.

Of course, since they are third graders, it was probably not an appropriate question nor skill to be tested. I do know that schools aren't some evil entity that are set up to indoctrinate children, they are are institutions of learning, and are faced with every possible negative aspect of society and expected to "fix them".

If people don't want the schools to "pry", then the people need to stand up and take responsiblity (as a whole, I'm sure there are many individuals that do, but as a whole, society doesn't).
The ones who want to shout "teachers need to teach, not pry" are probably the same ones, on another topic, that would say "why didn't the teacher do anything about that". It's a no-win situation for them.
99% of the problems that exist in a school do not come from the teachers or from the students. It's almost always either the lack of parenting or the lack of competent leadership....or way too much 'leadership' that doesn't lead at all but instead causes more problems than it gives solutions.


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:11 PM by krazyiven
reply to post by FortAnthem



what was the question exactly???



reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:21 PM by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by captaintyinknots



The Wall Street Journal Reports:


Susan Engel, a lecturer in psychology and director of the teaching program at Williams University, said the question doesn't sound troubling to her. Asking about secrets is a good way to get children to write, she said. And, she said, children at that age are unlikely to say something that would offend their families, or even bare their own souls. "I think by and large, kids are not going to tell a real secret," she said.


Your certainty it was a "logic" question is further undermined by the uncertainty of a New Jersey education spokesman:

Justin Barra, spokesman for New Jersey's state Education Department, said the state is looking into who wrote the "secret" question. He said the question itself is being tested and that it was vetted for appropriateness by both the department and a panel of teachers. He said it was given in 15 districts to about 4 percent of the third-graders statewide who took the exam. Like other experimental questions, the answers will not count toward students' scores.


As to your assertion that most 3rd graders secrets amount to "Billy kissed Sally" here is what two twin boys answered on that test:

A further complication may be that at least some teachers tell their students that they can make up their answers if they don't have real-life examples to give. What matters, the teachers say, is the form of the writing, not whether what they say is true. As for Goldberg's boys, he said one wrote about breaking a ceiling fan and not telling his dad. The other wrote about the time Goldberg took the boys out of school for a day of skiing — and worried that he might get in trouble for admitting to playing hooky.


ABC News also spoke to Justin Barra:

But after further review, Department of Education spokesman Justin Barra said, the question won't be included in future tests. "We've looked at this question in light of concerns raised by parents, and it is clear that this is not an appropriate question for a state test," Barra said, adding that about 4,000 students in 15 districts had the question.


fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+new+jersey+test+asking+3rd+graders+to+reveal+a+secret&hl=en&client=fi refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnsu&psj=1&ei=JRmvT4OAOIfjiALZ_92qBA&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=61f e8c406b329c8c&biw=1024&bih=636" target="_blank" class="postlink">Page after fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+new+jersey+test+asking+3rd+graders+to+reveal+a+secret&hl=en&client=fi refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnsu&psj=1&ei=WxmvT4qmJ4ijiAK3yp3yAw&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=61 fe8c406b329c8c&biw=1024&bih=636" target="_blank" class="postlink">page after fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+new+jersey+test+asking+3rd+graders+to+reveal+a+secret&hl=en&client=fi refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnsu&psj=1&ei=ixmvT7-XBMqRiAL0nqS0BA&start=20&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=61 fe8c406b329c8c&biw=1024&bih=636" target="_blank" class="postlink">page after fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+new+jersey+test+asking+3rd+graders+to+reveal+a+secret&hl=en&client=fi refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnsu&psj=1&ei=thmvT9e3DY2GiQK2yd2WBA&start=30&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=61 fe8c406b329c8c&biw=1024&bih=636" target="_blank" class="postlink">page of a simple Google search reveals numerous news reports across the nation regarding this incident, none of them - to the best of my knowledge - supporting your contention this was just a simple "logic" question. What is reported is that the State of New Jersey will no longer be asking this question which is a logical response to the valid concerns parents showed over this question. Of course, logic demands that some actual research be done on the intent of the question before insisting the motive was nothing more than a simple "logic" question.

Edit to Add: Apparently the hyperlink feature cannot handle Google page links. Each of the purple links above takes you to a page of Google asking: "what is the purpose of the New Jersey test asking 3rd graders to reveal a secret. Had the hyperlink feature worked that sentence would have begun:

Page after page after page after page of a simple Google search...

edit on 12-5-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:56 PM by 11azerus11
Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to
post by 11azerus11



Don't get me wrong, as I've already said, I don't think this is a proper tactic. But without knowing the curriculum that lead to this question, it seems like a leap, to me, to immediately jump to "conditioning".



agreed i was thinking the same thing about not knowing how the curriculum lead up to the question... i could just be overly paranoid... but i am right because if i am right then i am right, but if i'm wrong; i'm still right because i could have been right haha


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 10:05 PM by newcovenant
reply to post by FortAnthem



What do these parents have to hide and why make a young child responsible for the information if they do? Either your child can keep a secret or they can't. Many popular children's stories and poems revolve around secrets. I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 10:10 PM by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to
post by FortAnthem



What do these parents have to hide and why make a young child responsible for the information if they do? Either your child can keep a secret or they can't. Many popular children's stories and poems revolve around secrets. I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.


Sure, that's the ticket! Richard Goldberg is only using his dental license as a front for this secret meth lab of which he uses his two nine year old twin boys to sell the product. Of course! It's so obvious. Damn that evil Richard Goldberg.


reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 10:23 PM by 11azerus11
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to
post by FortAnthem



I think the parents are afraid the kid is going to spill stuff like my parents are running a meth lab, hoarding guns, making me have sex with strangers - you know that sort of stuff.


I hate this attitude just because I value my privacy doesn't mean i'm cooking meth or hoarding guns even tho i don't think there is anything wrong with the latter one haha and to suggest i'm making my children have sex with strangers is appalling.... do u not like your privacy? I'm surprised that you don't with what you wrote as your headline under your screen name


The GOP game plan is for the affluent and the corporations to control the government essentially an American fascist state.


so when google starts using webcams and mic to "monitor" citizens, your all for it because u have nothing to hide?
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