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*must watch!!* RNC Legal Counsel STATED national delegates may vote their conscience.

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posted on May, 12 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 
Despite how much I don't want to, I give you a star for this as it's what I understand as well.

Sure, you can vote however you want at the national convention - but I believe that vote may have definitely repercussions when you get home, if it's allowed to stand in the first place by various state GOP dictates (not quite sure how that last conflict of levels balances out).

Take care.



I wish more people would realize that this isn't a pro or anti Paul position...it is just the facts.

And I will fully admit that not all States legally bind their delegates when the delegates are considered "bound"...some are soley on ambigous party rules. One that I can think of is Arizona whos rules state:

"Each delegate to the national convention shall use his best efforts at the convention for the party's presidential nominee candidate who received the greatest number of votes in the presidential preference election ... until the candidate releases the delegate ... withdraws from the race or until one convention nominating ballot "

If they don't accompany this with a signed oath that is legally binding, there are no consequences for the delegates from breaking their pledge...however unless the State chairperson is a Ron Paul supporter, I doubt they will allow that to happening.


So you are saying that rules matter now.
Keep the faith buddy!
Can you say, "President Paul"!




posted on May, 12 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
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Hello OutKast Searcher.
I've followed your well formulated antiposts to Ron Paul supporters, nice work.
I think you'll agree the entire reason for the Electoral College is that it is easier to line the pockets of a few than to go against the nature of machine politics and serve the many, when the left wing and the right wing are still part of the same old turkey. This election is different than most in recent memory, that thing most feared by politicians is in play, idealists, and people who are not compromised by behavior lending power to the blackmail control method of directing actors on the national stage, they don't have tapes of Ron Paul's Power Rangers with a dead boy, a live goat, or desecrating any three year old little girls, no records of any in Paul's camp looting charities, recieving bailout kickbacks, nor participating in Ponzi schemes. Romney has in no way been cleared in the matter of the constructive fraud from which Mitt and Tagg Romney have apparently profited quite handsomely. The investigation is ongoing, and it isn't looking good for Romney.
OutKast Searcher, I respectfully wish to disabuse you of a couple of errors on which you have in part based some of your antiposts'.
The RNC Chairman, and Romney, are, and have been knowingly in open and flagrant violation of rule 11.
The RNC Chair has made declarations that Romney is the presumptive nominee, and has acted with Romney to actively insert false information regarding donations, and delegates, compounding his rules violations. It is fair to say the RNC Chairman is in panic mode, clearly indicated by the distinct lack of the prior written and filed statements of all RNC members of 14 of the 41 states involved. Why would that be? Well, the misrepresentations of the states won, and delegate counts are now becoming public knowledge, and what we are confirming is exactly opposite of what sold out party "bosses" and MSM were trumpeting.
Manipulation of public perception usually works much better than it has this election cycle. Frankly, we knew we would be lied to, we being state level Republican party members who are mid to high level election workers. We have been in communication with Republican election workers in other states, we know what steps to take and when to take them. The runup to the General Election may well see some surprising power excersized by our party members, which will remind party officials such as the RNC chair and MSM that it is our party. We control the party, and we have a codified system of rules and remedies which we can, and will enforce. When we say sit down and shut up the "bosses" may not like it, but when united by outrage at the contrived candidacy of an unlikely politician with such a history of flip flopping, waffling, lying, cheating, and stealing, it boggles the mind almost as much as Cute Newty's run.Newt shouldn't even be allowed to have a credit card, and his veracity is such that he should be forever banned from political office, or from swearing an oath. At least Newt has always been an okay guy on a guy to guy level. He certainly was never a wimp who had to be helped by 5 men to hold down someone who had chosen to wear their hair long, and cut that persons hair against his will, as Chitty Mitty did. All six should have been charged with several felonies, but when you are a son of priviledge, the rules don't seem to apply to your cowardly and ample 24K rump.
Delegates to the national convention under rule 38 are not bound and may not be. RNC rules apply, state proclaimations notwithstanding as RNC is answerable to party and members in all states, but the states themselves have less authority than Kermit the Frog at the RNC, it's our party. Here's a little factoid, Romney has no delegates. none, nada, zip. That doesn't happen till the floor games (sort of reminds me of "Buck Buck"), and by the time delegates start really being counted there is a very good possibility that Romney will no longer be eligible for the nomination, and even were he to still be posturing, his goose is already cooked. The old school conservative resurgence within our party is much deeper than you know. The Revolution is well underway and we are not firing our muskets until we see the whites of their eyes. The battle will be joined, we are swift and decisive. "We shall have a knife in our teeth, a bomb in our hands, a sneer on our lips and infinite scorn in our hearts."-B. Mussolini) The Democrat party candidate will go down in flames in debate with Ron Paul, whom as you know answers questions quickly and in plain english. Ron Paul doesn't have to try to remember lies because he's no liar, his answers are in plain english because he knows what he is talking about. Romney was chosen to be nominated by TPTB to lose the election. TPTB? Soon to be TPTB defendants. Good day OutKast Searcher.Oh, one last thing;Love your Avatar, Bugsport?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by mee30
 


In America the only rules that apply are the ones the media tells us do.

Besides that out political system is so filled with intentional obstacles, laws that get used when it suits someones purpose and then lied about, distorted, or ignored when they don't. The political system is so complicated and complex so it is hard to know when the someone is doing wrong. There are trouble makers from all political parties who only intention is to muddy the waters so no one really understands what is going on. Again the media takes a leading role in letting us know what is right or not.

Fortunately it looks like the American people are waking up and turning off the main stream and listening to alternative media sources for the truth.

America is a great country, it is just filled with so much bull#.
edit on 12-5-2012 by sdocpublishing because: Added text.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Luminaught
 


Now that is without doubt, the most well spoken (shut up and sit down) I have seen in a very long time! My hat is off to you sir!




posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Call me picky (PLEASE) but could someone define a NATIONAL delegate? As used that implies that there are also NON_NATIONAL delegates. So how many of each class are there?

While I admire Paul's feisty non establishment manner and positions I see no hope for his nomination. He would be a terrible president when confronted with a bought and paid for corporate a** kissing congress.

I can foresee any diehard yet realistic (a contradiction in terms) Paul supportes already drafting post convention threads

Paul lost because RNC convention was not run according to rules

Paul lost because delegates violated their duty



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Luminaught
 


A nice verbose post but IMO you have expressed a LOT of opinion and few proven accepted facts. So when will your allegations be ruled upon in a court of law?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


In the Republican Party, all elected delegates are "national delegates" as in they are to attend the national convention. It's just a matter of semantics. The fact is that once they are at the RNC, they are under National Republican Party Rules. Now to be realistic, the rules state that delegates are to be "bound" according to state regulations. If delegates disregard their pledges, it's not completely far-fetched to think the state committees may well give them the boot. It's unspoken territory in that regard, but a pledge is not legally binding. The worst that could legally happen is that they get kicked out of the convention and banned from their state party. However, if the number of delegates that are assumed to actually support Paul push the envelope to that point, who knows what may happen. I don't think the RNC will allow the number of delegates to dwindle too low, but that's my opinion. My doubt rests on the negative publicity and lost credibility as a "national" representation that may ensue. I assume it would be up to the Standing Committee on Rules at that point.
edit on 12-5-2012 by jlm912 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


I do concur that RP would still have an uphill battle even as POTUS. The quickest route to success for his plans would be EO'S, but that might be looked down upon by many of his current followers. However, I think if the results were there, the controversy may fade. EO's are constitutional, though. It wouldn't actually contradict his values.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by jlm912
 


Thank you but... I am not ready to accept semantics. Why did the RNC rep even include 'national'.

Then there is 'elected'. Are ALL delegates elected? I think not. Don't the national rules state that specific persons, like Republican state office holders, are automatically delegates, that is not elected. Could these be the 'national' delegates, being beyond state rules/election?

Also found this at www.washingtonpost.com...


Each state, the District of Columbia, and five U.S. territories get three RNC delegates who can support any candidate, regardless of their state's primary.


Seems to me there THREE nationally mandated as unbound per state..... There MAY be more unbound per state rules.

This whole thing is a bureaucratic nightmare just like most congressional legislation.

If I owned a TV I might even have to watch the convention. There are the rules, hard to digest and open to much opinion, and then there is what they do at the convention!


What is the penalty if a BOUND delegate votes otherwise? Probably none or is their vote ignored? Replaced by an alternate? What purpose does an alternate delegate serve? Bound the same as the one they MAY replace?
edit on 12-5-2012 by oghamxx because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


It doesn't matter if you accept the semantics. No, not all delegates are elected directly, but even the chairpersons are elected as such. Every state has regulations for electing delegates, and under almost every state rule book, they are called "national delegates," so no, national delegates are not only automatic delegates, or "super delegates." That is but a sub-category.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by jlm912
 


If he goes too far with EO's he will be branded a DICTATOR!

He would need to be a dynamic motivational speaker on TV appealing to the masses to get on their congressmen to support him. I don't think that will fly. The corporations run the show, their money talks (thanks to the SC) and they even write their own self serving legislation for their puppets to enact. VETO, VETO, VETO!



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by jlm912
 


I respectfully disagree.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


I do agree. EO's should be used sparingly and accordingly. I personally believe that there should be stricter limits on EO's, but there isn't, and as long as that stands, it would be completely within his constitutional power.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


Acknowledged. That is your right. I don't understand what's possibly confusing, though. The adjective "national" is only pertaining to the fact that they are going to the national convention. That's my take, though. I don't think I'll contact anyone relevant for clarification, so we'll agree to disagree, no?



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by jlm912
 


Certainly within his powers but 'dangerous'.

There have been many repulsive EO's issued to take effect in the event of an undefined national emergency. Problem is you have no standing in a court of law until you have actually been harmed by them at which time it will be too late. I don't know why restraining orders would not apply.



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by jlm912
 


And my take is that national applies to those DELEGATES mandated by the national rules and not subject to state rules or any election. What other convention could they possibly be speaking of to have to distinguish it from the national convention? Had they said national CONVENTION delegates I would wholly agree with you.

We are friends




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