Neglect of elderly patients in our hospitals

Hello everyone, I just wanted to share this to let people know what it going on to our senior citizens when they go into hospital and the 'care' of the NHS in the UK.

The following is what my girlfriend told me tonight on MSN. I play football a couple of nights a week (soccer to you Americans ) and when I play I go on MSN afterwards to chat with my girlfriend rather than meet up, just a thing we do!

She recently started work in the NHS, I won't say where and what as, but she was on an elderly ward tonight and this is what she told me, it is quite long and also very sad-

((it is in MSN chat style so may be heard to understand on first read))

i said like how was it working and the hca was dead snotty and said that hardly any of them ate so they were just getting what they were given.
yer
so i said like that i would do the soup with the teas cz i already had the hot water and would be easier.
then she told me not to cz they hadnt been given them in the day
so i let her go round with the butties
and followed her on
and she had given each person a quartre of a butty each.
when there was enough for them to have about 2 full butties each.
so in the first bay it was 4 women and they all had the soup and a cuppa and were saying they were firsty then told me that they hadnt been given a drink all day. THeir jugs were all empty cz the HCAs and nurses hadnt filled them up all day.
then in the next bay 2 people were asleep so i woke them up and gave them drinks and one said he wanted a butty as well so i went and asked the HCA and nurse and they said it was tuff cz they had already been round!
so i just took some.
then another man asked if he could get another one cz he hadnt ate all day. so i went and got him another one and the nurse said that they hadnt gone round in the daytime cz it wasnt their job!
then in the 3rd bay
the hca told me to ignore the man in the first bay who had a curtain pulled round him
cz he doesnt eat
so i gave the rest the tea and soup then one of the men said it made a nice change to be treated like a person in the hospital and told me that they had just left the man in the curtains for 3 days and then they put the curtains back for visiting!
so i opened them and there was an old man lying in the bed
who literally looked like a skeleton
so i called his name and touched him hand and he asked if i was ok but like couldnt really talk
so i just made him a cup of tea
and helped him to sit up and he drank it in like 2 seconds and asked for another one
so i gave him another and some soup
and then he wanted another then the hca said that i should have left him how he was!
then his family walked in and seen me with him and were like hugging me saying like that that was what he needed and that like they hadnt seen him sitting up since he was in the hospital
they were basically neglecting him
then i went to the next bay and the hca said the same again about one of the curtains to just ignore them as they dont do anything.
so i did the same called the womans name and she didnt move so then i touched her and she had died.
they were old enough to have mums and dad at that age
when i got back to the bottom of the ward the women in the 1st bay asked if they could have another drink
so i went and made them all one and filled their waters up
and one had blood all over her bed and nightie
so i asked if she was ok and she said she had fell and called the nurse and the nurse went over and told her that she was too busy.
so i rang the number they told me to on that course and a dif nurse came up and looked at her and she had a big gash in her leg
but it had been there for 2 days
so had bled for 2 days
and the sheets hadnt been changed
after that i asked them all if they wanted some of the cake and they all said ye so i went the kitchen to get it and all the nurses and hcas had ate the 2 cakes between them
and the rest of the butties.
so all day all the people on the ward had had a quarter of a butty and a cuppa soup and that was only because i was put on the ward.
they said they deserved it with all they have to put up with and that other waards do the same. so i said that it was sent up for the patients and that if there was some left over then they take it but none of the patients on that ward had been fed all day and that at that age it was important that they had food. and then i said that when they are older god help them if they get put with nurses li
like them.
and that they should be absolutly ashamed of themselves.
the way they were treating the patients was actually inhumane.
one woman asked me if i would help her to the toilet before i went as she wasnt steady on her feet and when she asked the nurses or hcas they were just shoving her on a bed pan and leaving her on it for hours.
its not even my job to do that, or to help people sit up
or help them drink tea
or to give them food.
i could get in to trouble for doing it
but i wasnt just going to leave them

I just don't understand what is happening?

Do they purposely put cruel heartless people on these wards, people who don't care for their patients at all?

I can understand working with elderly might be difficult, but that is the job they chose to do yet it seems they will willingly ignore the basic needs of other human beings by not feeding them or giving them water.

Old people have more than likely paid the most into our system- our taxes pay for the NHS so why are they neglected the most?

It isn't a random occurence either, my nan died last year in an NHS hospital. God bless her, she was the kindest woman I've ever known and ever will know, if life's purpose it to lead a good honest life and help others, to really care for others, she passed with flying colours.

Yet when she went into hospital, she was completely neglected. It was surreal how fast she deteriorated, I was with her on the day she went in, she was quite weak because she hadn't been eating as much as she should, but she was alert and talking, but they never made an effort to feed her ONCE when she was in their care. It was cruelty, to such a kind hearted, loving person. Turned out she had suffered a mini stroke, yet they didn't figure this out till just before she died. She was in hospital for over a month and was not fed once, they didn't even attempt to feed her for a full fortnight! Thinking back now, it was disgusting, flat out disgusting treatment.

Why is this so widespread, is it simply that way to save money- do they view the elderly as not worth wasting money on? Is the NHS money better spent on younger patients who have a future?

Is it simply cruelty across the board- the neglect and tales of neglect are across the country- how can people qualify to become nurses and HCAs and be so heartless?

Is it a deliberate discrediting trick of the NHS to privatize it?

No matter what the reason, I just find it hard to believe people who have gone into this line of work, to look after and care for other people will so willingly neglect a human's basic survival needs, leaving them locked behind curtains to die, men left with no food or drink and then asking for more when given some- literally left to starve and waste away.

What kind of country does that, what kind of people can do this, don't they have grandparents themselves, don't they realise that they'll be old one day as well?

I just wanted to share this anyway, I'm sure it won't do anygood but...

Your friend should get a hidden camera and expose what is going on. they need to become a whistleblower. They may lose their job, but what's more important?

My mother went to school for this as well, she works in a nursing home as well. We live in Nova scotia canada, the health care system is okay. But..

She actually just snapped at one of her co-workers for doing these exact things, not treating the patients humanely and breaking all sorts of rules and regulations. It happens here too, it happens everywhere. There are patients grown up kids coming in and -not allowing- certain nurses near their parents. My mom hates it because this particular nurse is non-caring when the job requires care.

Just to quote some more of our conversation, referring to standing up and questioning what is going on-

not many people will tho.
and then when ya do people dont like ya.
i wouldnt be surprised if i dont get kept on now.
because they dont like people to point out whats wrong.
they just like to walk round like everything is hunky dorey!
but am happy because i know i have made a difference.
i probs gave that man another couple of days just with a cup of tea. and his family got to see him sat up and awake. rather than looking like a skeleton.
and the woman could have bled to death.
i just hope that the family take the man home rather than leave him there.

You're not allowed to question it, you are viewed negatively if you do so, outcast.

Perhaps this is true in rare, isolated incidences, but as a rule, U.S. hospitals are the best in the world. Now if you want to talk about extended care (Specialty Hospitals) facilities, that would be a different story. Many of the owners of these holes, Specialty Hospitals, should be exposed as the inhumane thieves that they are, and made to lay in their own foulness, while in one position, for days at a time.

Originally posted by Violater1
Perhaps this is true in rare, isolated incidences, but as a rule, U.S. hospitals are the best in the world. Now if you want to talk about extended care (Specialty Hospitals) facilities, that would be a different story. Many of the owners of these holes, Specialty Hospitals, should be exposed as the inhumane thieves that they are, and made to lay in their own foulness, while in one position, for days at a time.

I'm talking in the UK, and sadly it seems to be a nationwide problem where elderly people are all too often neglected and treated worse than animals, basically left to starve by the NHS that they have funded throughout their lives.

In many ways, I salute the benefit cheats, they're not buying into a system that will leave you to starve to death, neglected and made to feel like a hindrance in your final years.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I am horrified. This is really disgusting.

Those old people are extremely precious in reality. They have gathered much wisdom and life experiences which have made them rich in what really counts.

What is wrong with people. This is very upsetting.

The biggest illness we have on this planet is the cause of all misery. Lack of compassion.

This is extremely sad and cruel.
with tears.

Its an "open secret" known by almost everyone who works in the NHS that patients over 60 entering hospital are subtly "encouraged onwards" to their final pine box bed.

Water jugs "forgotten" to be filled - dehydration.
Insufficient food, insufficient monitoring...

Anyone who dares question this treatment is marginalised and outcast by the "healthcare" community.

How do I know this? I have relatives who were nurses until they quit in disgust and went to work in nursing homes.

Thats not to say its deliberate, but it is institutionalised.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

I am horrified. This is really disgusting.

Those old people are extremely precious in reality. They have gathered much wisdom and life experiences which have made them rich in what really counts.

What is wrong with people. This is very upsetting.

The biggest illness we have on this planet is the cause of all misery. Lack of compassion.

This is extremely sad and cruel.

with tears.

It is disgusting I agree with everything you say.

Originally posted by BMorris
Its an "open secret" known by almost everyone who works in the NHS that patients over 60 entering hospital are subtly "encouraged onwards" to their final pine box bed.

Water jugs "forgotten" to be filled - dehydration.
Insufficient food, insufficient monitoring...

Anyone who dares question this treatment is marginalised and outcast by the "healthcare" community.

How do I know this? I have relatives who were nurses until they quit in disgust and went to work in nursing homes.

Thats not to say its deliberate, but it is institutionalised.

edit on 11/5/2012 by BMorris because: Additional sentence.

That pretty much seems to sum it up. Sadly it seems no one gives a crap unless they've worked there and experienced it or had an elderly relative be victim of it.

Do you think this is because of money- ie, the reality being they want to invest the majority of money and care into younger people?

The worst thing is the old people have paid the most into the system that runs the NHS if it is to do with money.

This is the same in hospitals down south...not all but many of them. I'm sure it's not all staff too but it happens all too frquently.

I keep an eye on several elderly neighbours next to me, see them daily and get them anything they need, and many times i've had to call an ambulance when they've fallen. I dread it when they have to go into hospital as i honestly don't know if they'll come out.

One of my neighbours husband went in after a fall, and she was phoned by the ward staff asking if she could come in and feed her hsuband as they didn't have the staff and they'd have to put a drip in him otherwise.

Basic care is whats missing at hospitals these days, getting the patients washed, few and watered seems to be a task too time consuming for staff. Now i'm not slagging of the staff in general with a large brush for all, i'm annoyed at whatever is causing them to be like this.

I don't give a damn either if anyone comes into this thread and says that it doesn't happen that often, it DOES happen bloody often here in the UK. Once is too much.

Part of me wonders if the lack of respect for people amongst younger staff these days has a lot do do with it? Again, thats not a sweeping statement, but i've seen with my own eyes younger staff almost be put out because i've asked for some water for a friend whilst the nurse was texting.

That said, i've seen more mature staff that should never have been given a uniform as thier bedside manner is so bad.

Some staff blame time restrictions, they haven't the time to give personal attention to anyone, or the staff to do it. Ok i'm not a nurse so i don't know the full story, i just see the other side when people close to me go in for care and come out looking ten times worse.

CX.

Thank you for making this thread OP. This is of MAJOR importance and people need to realize what is and could be happening to their loved ones in the hospitals and nursing homes alike! Abuse, neglect : It happens folks and when you think your fam member is receiving care. Unfortunately a lot are being mistreated instead.

It is truly disturbing seeing the patients being neglected and mistreated! I even considered becoming an ombudsman to intervene ! Seriously, I'm like you - have a heart for people and it makes me sick too -To know that some folks just have no thought, care or HEART! These type of folk in the healthcare facilities should be thrown out on their faces in the middle of the street ... kept there for days without food, etc... Ah but it will come back to haunt them on day.

OP,,, every heard of an Ombudsman? You have the major requirment ... a caring loving heart!
This is the only way I know to help people. The facilities will look at you and be on their toes to do their BEST when you enter the facility ...if you become one. Ombudsmen seem to put the fear back into them...

God bless and help our elderly and ALL patients...
.

My Grandmother is going through radiation and chemo for brain cancer. It's sad to see other elderly patients without families (or support) sit there lonely and depressed. All too often these are the same patients that receive less than acceptable treatment. If you are not outspoken and demand the best care, the hospitals will not go out of their way to make your loved one more comfortable.

After school I would spend time in a nursing home where my aunts worked, helping with snow removal, mopping floors, etc. I've seen several staff members completely ignore "clients" because their families were either unable to provide funding for them, or they just abandoned them all together. Many would just stay in bed all day, staring out the window or at the walls. My aunts would leave work disgusted every day because they felt that their hands were tied by the company. It bothers me to this day.

Originally posted by CX

Part of me wonders if the lack of respect for people amongst younger staff these days has a lot do do with it? Again, thats not a sweeping statement, but i've seen with my own eyes younger staff almost be put out because i've asked for some water for a friend whilst the nurse was texting.

That said, i've seen more mature staff that should never have been given a uniform as thier bedside manner is so bad.

Some staff blame time restrictions, they haven't the time to give personal attention to anyone, or the staff to do it. Ok i'm not a nurse so i don't know the full story, i just see the other side when people close to me go in for care and come out looking ten times worse.

CX.

Trying to understand it will be hard but I'm glad others notice the problem and it certainly does seem to be nationwide.

I think lack of respect is certainly one part of it. Each generation that comes becomes more selfish IMO- I see that at just being 28 myself, society is changing and it is not in a good way at all.

The common attitude also seems to be 'it isn't my job', (perhaps linking to your younger people with no respect point) so if they aren't trained to do something, they won't. It seems many nurses on these wards just stick to the bare minimum work they have to do, even if that means leaving someone to starve or bleed, they don't think they get enough to do these things.

As another poster mentioned, there is an unwritten rule that elderly people are not to be given the best treatment. So basically, money is a problem and resources. If an elderly person goes into hospital, sadly the hospital may not see them as a worthwhile 'investment' because on average, they won't have long left etc. It's a terrible attitude but seems to be the case.

It's a combination of many negative things happening in society, and it doesn't paint a good picture for the time when we get old.

Originally posted by SeekerLou
Thank you for making this thread OP. This is of MAJOR importance and people need to realize what is and could be happening to their loved ones in the hospitals and nursing homes alike! Abuse, neglect : It happens folks and when you think your fam member is receiving care. Unfortunately a lot are being mistreated instead.

It is truly disturbing seeing the patients being neglected and mistreated! I even considered becoming an ombudsman to intervene ! Seriously, I'm like you - have a heart for people and it makes me sick too -To know that some folks just have no thought, care or HEART! These type of folk in the healthcare facilities should be thrown out on their faces in the middle of the street ... kept there for days without food, etc... Ah but it will come back to haunt them on day.

OP,,, every heard of an Ombudsman? You have the major requirment ... a caring loving heart!
This is the only way I know to help people. The facilities will look at you and be on their toes to do their BEST when you enter the facility ...if you become one. Ombudsmen seem to put the fear back into them...

God bless and help our elderly and ALL patients...
.

Interesting I'll look into that

One of the scary things is that when visitors aren't there, when it is just the nurses there, what is actually going on? If visitors can see the neglect, what's the problem really like!

Originally posted by KEMIK
My Grandmother is going through radiation and chemo for brain cancer. It's sad to see other elderly patients without families (or support) sit there lonely and depressed. All too often these are the same patients that receive less than acceptable treatment. If you are not outspoken and demand the best care, the hospitals will not go out of their way to make your loved one more comfortable.

After school I would spend time in a nursing home where my aunts worked, helping with snow removal, mopping floors, etc. I've seen several staff members completely ignore "clients" because their families were either unable to provide funding for them, or they just abandoned them all together. Many would just stay in bed all day, staring out the window or at the walls. My aunts would leave work disgusted every day because they felt that their hands were tied by the company. It bothers me to this day.

Heartbreaking, what does it say for us as a race?

The ones without family are neglected the most, how cruel that an elderly person goes into hospital or care without family and they are just neglected and left to die, literally treated than prisoners.

Seriously.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Originally posted by SeekerLou

OP,,, every heard of an Ombudsman? You have the major requirment ... a caring loving heart!
This is the only way I know to help people. The facilities will look at you and be on their toes to do their BEST when you enter the facility ...if you become one. Ombudsmen seem to put the fear back into them...

God bless and help our elderly and ALL patients...
.

Interesting I'll look into that

One of the scary things is that when visitors aren't there, when it is just the nurses there, what is actually going on? If visitors can see the neglect, what's the problem really like!

Agreed! Ombudsman cannot be stopped from entering the facility... You then can go around to all of the residents *at nursing homes* to inquire about them.... You visit with ea and ask them how they are, if they have any complaints, etc. and hear it from source. And yeah, it is the one's who cannot speak for themselves to be concerned with too .. yes, and especially those without family members to look out for them... but it would be a little nick in their crawl for one to do this at least weekly ... If you have found complaints of, then you could call for an investigation. ... And yet again, they, knowing who you are ... will be on their toes to do right especially with your weekly reporting. There are good nurses, don't get me wrong, but then there are some bad one toos...and they should be in another field .imo.

I do investigations for the MO Department of Health. Specifically - geriatric care. It amazes me what people will do to another human being.

What amazes me more is that the penalty if discovered and administratively convicted by the board of health (about 20% of all cases even get investigated) they are usually just let go and because of union rules they mostly keep their licenses (in the rare case its required) and move on to another job elsewhere doing the same thing because the records are sealed. I have only seen one home closed for this mistreatment.

The only time I have had a case go to prosecution is when a person in a home was taking money out of patient’s accounts by having them sign things they didn't understand.

Now on the other hand if they catch a family committing fraud by omission on a financial statement (i.e. claiming the patient without assets) they always prosecute. Why, because the State can take their assets and fine the children. Money makes the system go round.

I don't think I can do this job much longer. I have been in many wars in my lifetime but seeing all the mistreatment of our elders is more heart wrenching than that ever was. I thought it would be rewarding to go after #heads who mistreat the elderly – then I realized it’s not really a priority when it comes to the overburdened system. I guess prosecuting 18 year olds for their two joints takes priority.

reply to post by Golf66


Thanks for your post, it's an upside down system it seems, both in the UK and USA.

Originally posted by Golf66
...What amazes me more is that the penalty if discovered and administratively convicted by the board of health (about 20% of all cases even get investigated) they are usually just let go and because of union rules they mostly keep their licenses (in the rare case its required) and move on to another job elsewhere doing the same thing because the records are sealed. I have only seen one home closed for this mistreatment.

Agreed ! And see the same things happening with offending police officers......just moving to other departments in other counties or cities within the county. This is not right: It's crazy !

The only time I have had a case go to prosecution is when a person in a home was taking money out of patient’s accounts by having them sign things they didn't understand.

Good to hear of the prosecution -conviction!

Now on the other hand if they catch a family committing fraud by omission on a financial statement (i.e. claiming the patient without assets) they always prosecute. Why, because the State can take their assets and fine the children. Money makes the system go round.

Yep..You got that right! Family members should never do such a thing , of course... But this does make it easy for the system for sure. -it's an easier conviction - so , easier money! The farris wheel makes me sick though.

I don't think I can do this job much longer. I have been in many wars in my lifetime but seeing all the mistreatment of our elders is more heart wrenching than that ever was. I thought it would be rewarding to go after #heads who mistreat the elderly – then I realized it’s not really a priority when it comes to the overburdened system. I guess prosecuting 18 year olds for their two joints takes priority.

BLESS you is all I can say. I commend you for your job - a job well done. Am sure it must take its toll on you and pulls heavily upon your heart strings. I realize just how heart wrenching it is.... maybe you just need a break , a little vacation or leave. But these people DO need you...and only a caring heart will do...or CAN do this type of job.

I agree ... that instead of protecting the elderly, etc. that 'they' DO have their priorities mixed up ...Yeah, a joint compared to things such as the seriousness of this! The overburdened system could or should lose a lot of unnecessary convictions and replace them with ones that should really matter!