"Dad! They're Killing Me!"

It is a sad thing to see, and a horrible crime committed against Mr. Kelly Thomas, and his family. May he rest in peace, and may his family find peace, as well.

I do not blame any human, sane or otherwise for not wishing to be part of the mental health system, not in the slightest.

The mental health system of this world has a very dark and secretive past. Many insist that a lot of it still goes on to this day From raping the mentally ill, to having drugs or "treatments" tested on the patients without their consent.

Ice baths, lobotomy, electro-shock therapy, medications, etc.

That was all not so long ago. Now it's just massive amounts of drugs.

Scary to think, that every "system" we have in this world, is horribly corrupt, and horribly broken. Funding does not fix a broken or corrupt system.. no way, no how.

reply to post by ecoparity


We shall see, since two of those "police officers" Jay Cicinnelli and Manuel Ramos have both been charged with murder and manslaughter respectively. If what you say was done by "policy and by law" then why were these two thugs charged with any crime at all?

I'll tell you why they were charged with crimes, because they're criminals! These police officers had no jurisdiction in the matter, had no reasonable suspicion to justify even questioning him, let alone demanding he comply with brutal tactics. Kelly Thomas did what many sane people would do in such a situation, and that is recognize the threat they faced and attempt to flee. His mental state makes no difference since the police had no jurisdiction here. They acted upon their own private beliefs and the two charged cannot enjoy any limited immunity afforded police officers.

I need to read some more, details on what exactly was the cause of death, etc. They OP and several articles seem to push the position that he was choking to death and died much earlier in the video than what actually happened. If you can scream "I can't breath" you are getting enough oxygen to sustain life.

Dear Lord! You bet you need to read some more on this. Here is how the coroners pathologist testified on the matter:

A coroner's pathologist testified Tuesday the police officers who pummeled Thomas during a violent encounter last summer in Fullerton caused his death by cutting off the flow of oxygen to his brain when the fight intensified and they piled on him.

Dr. Aruna Singhania, who told the court she had performed 11,000 autopsies, said the difficulty Thomas had breathing because of chest compression as the struggle wore on was worsened by facial and nasal bleeding.

Your woefully and profoundly ignorant understanding of law is what has led you the conclusions you've made, but there was nothing at all lawful about what these police officers did, and no amount of legislation could ever make it lawful. The law is not evil.

"We ran out of options so I got the end of my Taser and I probably ... I just start smashing his face to hell," Cicinelli said, according to the transcript provided by prosecutors. Source

Originally posted by dan duchaine
"I see no government or police. I see criminals and thugs"

“Now you see my fists?” Fullerton police officer Manny Ramos asked Thomas while slipping on a pair of latex gloves.

“Yeah, what about them?” Thomas responded.

“They are getting ready to &#@% you up,” said Ramos, a burly cop who appears to outweigh Thomas by 100 pounds.

"Well, start punching," Thomas responds, never once displaying any physical aggression towards Ramos.

The cops keep telling him to put his hands behind his back and lay on his stomach, but they are both laying on top of him, making it impossible to even breathe, much less move.

As the video continues, one of the cops can be seen kneeing him.

At one point he yells out, "Dad, they are killing me."

Even after seven minutes into the video, when six cops are on top of him and all Thomas is doing is crying for his father, they keep telling him to "relax."

Thomas was pronounced dead on July 10, five days after the beating that left him in a coma" Source

Rest in Peace Kelly...

Originally posted by Apollo7

My poor 17 year old child is being held in a mental hospital in Raleigh, NC and he is not Mental! I just got off the phone with him and he told me that he had already asked for an attorney, but it would be next week before he could see them. He told me that they were abusing him but would not tell me how. My child sounds like he has been overmedicated! I have done everything in my power to have him released. My child said that a doctor Childers is abusing him at Holly Hills Hospital in Raleigh, NC..Can you guys get someone outside of that hospital to investigate where the children are being held. All I can do is go to work everyday and do what I can without having an attorney.

edit on 10-5-2012 by Apollo7 because: (no reason given)

God...here we go again.

They cannot hold your son without notifying you of why he's being held. The thread you authored about two weeks ago was yanked because you are off your rocker.

THEY CAN'T PUT YOUR CHILD IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION WITHOUT TELLING YOU. HE IS A MINOR.

What HAVE you done to get him released?

People of this thread, look at this posters history and tell me she isn't crazy.....

Sorry to derail, but her thread was huge a few weeks ago, then mods yanked it.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

believe that Kelly Thomas wasn't murdered because of an out of control cop culture that encourages Dirty Harry tactics and needless use of force, but want people to believe this tragedy happened because of Kelly Thomas' mental illness and the poor, poor pitiful police officers are haplessly stuck dealing with mentally ill people:

Yes thanks to good old Ronald Reagan who closed down 80% of the mental institutions in the 80's.

Families now either have the grand choice of taking out a second mortgage and having their mentally defective loved one committed for a while and hope they "turn around", turn them out on the street (many of our homeless are mentally challenged or keeping them at home and hoping they outlive their "charge".

In the animal kingdom, if a member of the pack is weak and sick, the other pack members turn on them or abandon them............humans are suppose to be "above" the animals when it comes to mercy and caring.

BS.............I've seen dogs and other animals that were more humane to each other than humans now are becoming.

Transhuman....................humans losing their soul.

Get ready because there is going to be more of this kind of stuff hitting the fan and eventually it will affect even those of you that think you are immune or above this.

Safe journey.

It's so outragous I don't know that there is much more I can add, other then to say this kid and his family are in my prayers....and I appreciate the OP giving respect to his memory.....♥

Ramos is facing 2nd degree murder / manslaughter and is looking at life in prison. He actually stands a chance of being convicted of something though I would guess it will end up being a lesser charge.

Cincenelli is charged with involuntary manslaughter and using excessive force. He's facing 4 years if convicted.

Ramos is being charged because of the way he was talking to Kelly and acting before the incident, the other cop is being charged because he struck Kelly in the face with a tazer which ultimately caused the facial bleeding which contributed to his death (aspiration of blood and compression making breathing difficult, just as I thought).

"If" Ramos is convicted of involuntary manslaughter it will be purely because of his words and actions while Kelly was still sitting on the bench. The most Cincinelli will get is use of excessive force, IMO. If it hadn't been for Ramos acting the way he did, on tape I doubt either officer would have been charged with anything.

You do notice none of the other cops are being charged, right? That's because, as I previously posted, they acted within the limits of the law and policy in trying to restrain a person who was resisting arrest.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


What does his mental health,have to do with outright murder ?

Nothing.




S&F

reply to post by sonnny1


I believe Mr. JPZ is more so pointing out how certain people are using this tragic, uncalled for murder, as a spring-board to get more funding for the Mental Health Services dept.

A rather disgusting use of a tragedy to get more money in their pockets.

Yes, murder is murder. But what is it when you use the murder to try and get more money for your institution, and say the murder wouldn't of happened if the institution had more funding.. ???

(Or perhaps I, in all honesty, totally missed JPZ's point.. it is possible.. )

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Jean Paul, nice to see you around again.

I believe it was you I had asked before in a PM for advice about an incident that I am reminded of in regards to Kelly Thomas. I witnessed a man dive tackle and really man handle in the street, I didn't realize it was a plain clothed cop, I didn't realize a lot I got roughed up and arrested for going to this guys aid. The police made me out to be like I was insane and the how dare you question my authority. This man may still be alive if someone intervened, personally if I would have witnessed this knowing what I know now, I would've called a higher authority I would have called the Cali. State Police because of my concern. This incident makes me uneasy, truly put me in front of the reflecting pool.

reply to post by ecoparity


The officer threatened Mr. Thomas and then jumped straight to potentially lethal force. Using a blunt object to strike another person is only one step below pulling a gun in the use of force continuim. Mace and or a tazer should have been used before he ever reached for his baton. His actions (in my opinion) constitute a reckless disregard for human life and an over reaction to the threat level present.

The second officer could have "dry" stunned Mr. Thomas. You pull the dart pack from the tazer and stick it directly against the body. Instead of ordering others to clear and proceeding in such a manner he decided to beat the guy's face in with the tazer. Again, he showed a reckless disregard for the well being of the subject.

There are numerous takedown methods and restraining methods that should have and could have been used. Instead they relied on potentially lethal force and brute strength.

reply to post by MikeNice81


Would my assessment be correct as i stated before, as in you see a cop doing something that concerns you like a beating a young man to blood and near broken bones for urinating in public, is calling the state cops wise or a waste of time?

Mental health advocates would like to see a return to the days of their own brand of torture like shock therapy (a different taser) and lobotomies which are a different kind of induced coma brought on by brain damage. The defining difference being scalpel vs baton.

"One Flew over the Cukoo's Nest" by Ken Kesey settled the issue in my mind.

reply to post by Brotherman


In the case of an out of uniform officer, call 9-11. In these situations the best you can really do is get video or audio, then report it to the shift commander as soon as possible. Getting physical with cops is not really a great idea.

reply to post by MikeNice81
so sad to see what we have become at no time did i see this poor guy show aggression so the crime of being homeless to some people is the death penalty you police officers in the US no the world have to remember the words to protect and serve lets get back to reality there are monsters out there that deserve this kind of treatment nought said

reply to post by lacrimosa


yeah, where has the long lost ignore button gone.

Mods, can you not see this troll for what it is? Can we PLEASE have the ignore button back, so we don['t have to scroll past obnoxious garbage like this?

Please?????

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


There is no Law,that can give these men,the same type of punishment,they gave to this poor soul.

I hope the jurors or judge,gives them the maximum time,or penalty,that they are allowed.

reply to post by MikeNice81


In my particular situation as a marine it appeared to me to act right away as I thought this guy was getting mugged or worse, I still approached with caution I yelled at the aggressor he said he was a cop to get the eff down he didn't have a badge it happened so quick in that case had I been armed it would've been a very bad situation (not that I would've drew but because I felt they just wanted to kick someone's ass and that would've got them really excited possibly trigger happy), I really did from what I saw and heard it wasn't nice, it wasn't pretty, the officer was in fact out of line. I got arrested and detained as well as roughed up and I didn't use any physical violence at all, after apprehension I was threatened with electrocution, to have my hands bashed with a mag light and I wasn't afforded to use a bathroom or given water for a few hours. Then I was interrogated about buying drugs as they claimed they found trace amounts of a white substance we cannot talk about on ATS (I don't use btw) it was a bad situation all around and it was all because some guy I really didn't know a friend of a friend type deal took a leak behind a bush


Thank you for the tip, perhaps you should write a thread on proper handling of police if you witness something like what was happening to Mr. Thomas I know if I would've known before in my situation I would have been better prepared to handle that. I have seen the arguements about all te people that drive by and did nothing, for those that are curious if you interfere with cops like this or the ones that did Thomas you are getting Effed up too. Again thank you I hope I never witness anything like that or what I previously experienced.

Also thank you for your service

Originally posted by redneck13
All those police should go to prison. I found the video to be a documented murder, not a beating

No, these police should be stoned publicly.

The system will not punish them, but rather protect them. They will go to a prison, where they will live like kings, instead of convicts, protected by the system, for whome they served.

The reality is, that Police are there to work for US, the public. Their agenda, is to protect the helpless individual. This homeless man, was the very person they are there to protect. The homeless and helpless individual, who has no one to care for them, or protect their rights. No one to turn to, but the system. And that very system, and people who serve that system ... they fulfilled their service, by taking out gloves and telling him "now I'm gonna mess you up". These police officers, took the person they swore to protect ... and beat him to death.

This isn't an isolated case. If we look around us, we will see that the recruitment for police and army, select individuals like this "fat pig" to service. They want people, who shoot and kill and ask questions later. They recruit people that go to Abu Grahib and maliciously sodomise people. They recruit people, who "gas" the public ... who "murder" the public, to preserve the system.

That very system, that recruited them will now put them in a prison for their protection. But their crime, is far greater than any other crime ... because it isn't committed by an criminal outside the system, a drunk, a junkie or a mentally ill person who no ability to understand his actions. But by a calculated individual, who acts out of sheer and calculated malice. And this very same system, will in the future not alter it's recuiting procedures, but will isolate those who "operate cameras" and forbid them to focus on police at work. Just like the Army, have routied out the reporters for the purpose of not "reporting" incidents like Mai Lao.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Incidents like this make me despise LEOs even more.

Remember that bully in high school that wouldn't stop whaling on you and making your life miserable? Well, when you moved away and went on to college and better things, that bully became lonely, became unstable, lost any motivation he had to move on and became a LEO.

That's how I view most small-town LEOs.

All of the officers in that incident need to be locked up behind bars.