Ultra orthodox shun their own for reporting child sexual assault

Ultra orthodox shun their own for reporting child sexual assault

www.nytimes.c om

The first shock came when Mordechai Jungreis learned that his mentally disabled teenage son was being molested in a Jewish ritual bathhouse in Brooklyn. The second came after Mr. Jungreis complained, and the man accused of the abuse was arrested.

Old friends started walking stonily past him and his family on the streets of Williamsburg. Their landlord kicked them out of their apartment. Anonymous messages filled their answering machine, cursing Mr. Jungreis for turning in a fellow Jew.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The article goes on to explain that members of the ultra orthodox community are encouraged to file complaints to rabbis rather than the police, and that rabbinical courts will investigate and even give out victim compensation money, but will not inform the police.

This is quite shocking news, and even more so that it is being reported on by the New York Times. What do you think about either the story itself or the reporting of it by a mainstream newspaper?

www.nytimes.c om
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Lord Jules


The abuse is sickening.

But remember all the Catholic pedophilia reports?

This belongs in the same column space, IMO.

reply to post by Lord Jules


Replace this with Catholic or Muslim
and i can bet that more and more people would be up in arms

had to be said

reply to post by Lord Jules


the actual story is old news and not shocking in the least. religious institutions attract those who wish to impose their will on others. among that group is a very small percentage of men (and women, i would assume) who wish to rape helpless children to empower themselves and control suffering which was inflicted upon them in some way earlier in life.

you are right on in that it's a little odd to hear this reported. especially since its jewish folks involved. you rarely hear any negative stories about jews in the U.S. MSM. the establishment is too in love with Israel and the People still view the Jewish people as eternal victims. certainly they are still dealing with generational effects of the holocaust much like african-americans still deal with generational effects of slavery. still not an excuse to exempt the "bad guys" in a victimized group from scrutiny or punishment. just like their belonging to religious institutions shouldn't protect people from being IDed as "bad guys."

The official unabridged Soncino Edition of the Talmud published in 1935 was "Translated into English with Notes, Glossary and Indices" by such eminent Talmudic scholars as Rabbi Dr. I. Epstein, Rabbi Dr. Samuel Daiches, Rabbi Dr. Israel W. Slotki, M.A., Litt.D., The Reverend Dr. A. Cohen, M.A.', Ph.D., Maurice Simon, M.A., and the Very Reverend The Chief Rabbi Dr. J.H. Hertz wrote the "Foreword" for the Soncino Edition of the Talmud. The Very Reverend Rabbi Hertz was at the time the Chief Rabbi of England.



SANHEDRIN, 55b-55a: "What is meant by this? - Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that (2) What is the basis of their dispute? - Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt (upon the actual offender); whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty (in that respect) (3). But Samuel maintains: Scriptures writes, (And thou shalt not lie with mankind) as with the lyings of a woman (4). It has been taught in accordance with Rab: Pederasty at the age of nine years and a day; (55a) (he) who commits bestiality, whether naturally or unnaturally: or a woman who causes herself to be bestiality abused, whether naturally or unnaturally, is liable to punishment (5)."

This "divine truth" which "a whole people venerate" of which "not a single letter of it is missing" and today "is flourishing to such a degree as cannot be found in its history" is illustrated by the additional verbatim quotations which follow:

SANHEDRIN, 55b: "A maiden three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; (if a niddah) she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon (a person afflicted with gonorrhea)."

SANHEDRIN, 55b-55a: "What is meant by this? - Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that (2)5)."

www.henrymakow.com...

of course this is why certain priests think they have the right too

reply to post by smyleegrl


I don't deny the catholic church runs more or less the same tactics, so is this a pandemic of all ultra-orthodox wings of every religion? I tend to think so. There is spirituality which is about individual awakening, and then there is organized religion, responsible for wars, slavery, child abuse, and more. It is difficult to draw the line because I consider myself spiritual and tolerant of religions, but at the same time religions should not be an excuse for abusive behavior. Truth is One. If people understood that, they would not view religion as a voice of authority that gets to commit sexual crimes. And if children were taught that everyone is divine, they would not bow down to perverted religious leaders. Instead children are brainwashed to follow their leaders which creates a cognitive dissonance when they are abused or know of abuse.

reply to post by RicoMarston


I wasn't going to mention this in the opening post because I don't know how it is related, but since you mentioned Israel, I wonder if this has anything to do with the new coalition government in Israel which seeks to alter the law exempting ultra orthodox from serving in the military. The Israeli leaders are vague in what their position is, but they hint that the "burden must be shared", how does that not imply enlistment for the ultra orthodox? Is there some type of negative ad campaign targeting the ultra orthodox, in case they cause a backlash if they are forced into the military? This being necessary if an Iran war is on the horizon. Or do the two events have nothing in common?

The other interesting thing is the link says "ultra orthodox jews shun..." while the headline says "ultra orthodox shun..." I was conflicted on which headline to post since ats wants exact headlines reprinted. So it seems like even the msm had to tip toe around the J word with this article.

Originally posted by Lord Jules
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I don't deny the catholic church runs more or less the same tactics, so is this a pandemic of all ultra-orthodox wings of every religion? I tend to think so. There is spirituality which is about individual awakening, and then there is organized religion, responsible for wars, slavery, child abuse, and more. It is difficult to draw the line because I consider myself spiritual and tolerant of religions, but at the same time religions should not be an excuse for abusive behavior. Truth is One. If people understood that, they would not view religion as a voice of authority that gets to commit sexual crimes. And if children were taught that everyone is divine, they would not bow down to perverted religious leaders. Instead children are brainwashed to follow their leaders which creates a cognitive dissonance when they are abused or know of abuse.

I personally believe that every religion, once it reaches a certain size and wields a certain amount of power, becomes corrupt. The leaders of that religion are no longer interested in spirituality, but in power and influence. Following that belief, it is unsurprising when we hear stories about abuse of any sort.

To me, if a religious text attempts to "authorize" or condone pedophilia in any form, then it loses all credibility. That's my opinion, but frankly the thought of abusing a child (whether the child was 9 or not) is absolutely....beyond description.

There is a huge difference between spirituality and religion, as you already know. So I guess the solution is to get the word out to the masses that this type of abuse is occuring...so yeah. Publish the hell out of it.

S&F for a necessary topic.

These are from the Talmud. They seem to teach that the jew is above the goyim. The goyim laws/rules do not apply to the jew. The article you posted made me think of the Talmud.

Sanhedrin 59a

To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

Libbre David 37

A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.

Mas. Shabbath 31b

On the house of the Goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.

Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII

When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Mas. Yevamoth 61b

All Israelites will have a part in the future world... The Goyim, at the end of the world will be handed over to the angel Duma and sent down to hell.

Zohar, Shemoth, Toldoth Noah, Lekh-Lekha

Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

This is why i'm against ALL organized religions, you name it and i'm against it. Time and time again, for century's, organized religions turned out to be the root of all evil. They all say we are good, loving etc. but actions speak louder than words.

There is nothing wrong as an individual to believe in a higher power but to be a part of an organized religion, to name yourself a certain way, to segregate yourself from the rest of humanity, to feel special and better than your neighbor ... religion is what drives us apart, instead (like they all say) bringing us closer together. We are merely humans, we cannot follow divine rules, those are not made for us and the biggest conspiracy ever on earth is just that, trying to follow rules that were never meant for us humans to follow.

reply to post by Lord Jules

Hi Jules -

It's VERY curious that the ultra Orthodox especially in NYC think 'they are above the laws of the goyim' (i.e. non Jews / Gentiles/ aka 'dogs', 'oxen', 'idolators') and even allow their own kind free exit to Eretz Yisro'el for criminals (cf: "I shall appoint for them a place wherein they might flee' from the Torah - oriiginally Five Towns of Refuge for the benei Yisro'el to flee in safety during 'accidental' manslaughter cases).

Oddly, you would think that since ultra orthodox (read: racist-zionist) Rebbes on the ultra right wing fringes of all the modern Rabbinic Judaiems out there in the wild, promote marriage for their clergy, they would be more well-behaved than say their Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters who are supposed to renounce Sex altogether (of course, now only Rebbes exist asall the various Judaiesms' cultic leaders - whereas formerly the various Judaeisms practised 2,000 years ago actually had 'cohenim' i.e. 'priests' at the core of their religion who took turns sacrificing goats and rams and bulls etc. on a sacrificial altar - that is - when they had a Templeto do it in - dedicated to the clan-god YHWH at Jerusalem - and before the Romans burned that (so called 2nd) Temple to the ground in 70 CE) during the 1st Failed Jewish Revolt Against Rome (c. 66-72 CE) where 900,000 Palestinian Jews lost their lives - more than 1/2 of the world's 'Shemitic Jews' living at at the time.

But world Jewry seems VERY VERY concerned about their reputation in the world (read: amongst the goyim at large) so naturally they would wish to place a very large RUG over their dirt so no one but their own authorities ever get wind of it...

And of course, one has to remember the New York Crowd also controls much of the national media in the US - so do the math.

However in these days of Information Availability (read: the world wide web) - their carpet just isn't big enough to cover up all their dirt -

The days of pulling the wool over the peering eyes of the goyim are over, finally - or at least...coming to an end...and fast too.

But enough about Charlie Chaplin and his 14 counts of child-molestation perpetrated against BOTH girls and boys under the age of 12 (yes, their families were VERY VERY well paid off in teh 1920s and 1930s) , and then there's... well, Allen ("I gotta woody for the kids") Konigsburg..aka Woody Allen whose sexual relationship with his semi-adopted four year old girl Dylan was exposed in the book 'What Falls Away' by Mia Farrow - who also witnessed some of his dirty sexual dealings first hand - and then of course his overt sexual relations with his other semi-adopted 'daughter' Soon Yi Previn - which eventually ended up in 'marriage' - but all of that came out 'above board' - so rare amongst the Crowd - unlike Charlie Chaplin whose court documents were supressed and sealed....


What dirt New York MONEY can hide continually amazes me - but even their sordid history can't be hidden for much longer - the truth will out - and without a lid placed tightly on it...well, 'nuff said !!

reply to post by Lord Jules


i totally feel you on your trepidation with using the J-word. just rereading the post you replied to had me worried that someone was going to call me an anti-semite. I don't think the jewish people are any worse than the rest of us, but we certainly tip toe around any touchy subjects involving them or their manufactured, stolen country.

i'm not sure how much Israeli policy affects our MSM's disinfo and propaganda, but there's no denying that the Elites in both nations are tethered to each other. It's where military might meets perceived prophecy that I get nervous.

This has been going longer than naught with all religions, muslims, jews, catholiics (christians). majority of denominations have child abuse scandals, and written in the talmud it is alright for jews to screw with a 11 year old, was it? so I mean what is the difference between that and the muslim pedo agenda? Come again, this was all written a different time, society has laws against these nowadays and everyone should pay the penality

Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and even Protestants. Pedophilia has no particular religion. Pedophiles tend to take a job, career, profession or position that will give them the supposed authority-figure to enforce their power over the victim and the supposed respectability to cover it all up.

Blind Baptist Leaders

How can parents believe their kids are safe when over 18 Southern Baptist leaders can know about a substantiated report involving a minister’s sexual abuse of a kid ... and the man is still able to remain in ministry?

it's simple really, it's a crime in NY state, really I think it;s a crime in the US....
not to report child abuse.
so, well, we have a bunch of religious leaders...and the followers, encouraging people to break the laws, and penalizing them for obeying the law...

kind of makes me not want to be a part of their religion anyways, and if heaven is only there for them, well, don't think I want to be there either!!!

.

Originally posted by illusive man
reply to post by Lord Jules

 

Replace this with Catholic or Muslim
and i can bet that more and more people would be up in arms

had to be said

Replace it with a company or corporation, and many would boycott and the company would go under. Yet, for some reason, with religion the religious feel more than comfortable ignoring the abuse far too often.

Truly sick, truly disgusting, yet many religious followers will still find a way to compartmentalize it and go one pronouncing their faith. Wonder if they'd do the same if this was a teacher at their local school? Ugh, the world is filled with hypocrisy.

reply to post by Sigismundus


I never knew that Charlie Chaplin was a pedophile! Ugh, good to know, though.
There is something very, very wrong with the three major religions, because stuff like this seems to be going on constantly, whether it's the Catholics, or other Christian offshoots, or the Jews, or the Muslims. There's so much that is actually of value in the Bible, Torah, and Koran, but there's so much that is weird and gross. I personally think that it all started off good, but some evil men slipped in the evil, nonsensical parts. But, of course, that doesn't align with what the holy books say about themselves - that they are infallible and perfect. One has to use one's best judgment, too, and throw out the parts that don't align with the spirit of the book. Pedophilia, sexism, racism, slavery, animal sacrifice, incest, etc. may all be in the holy books, but they make no sense with the spiritual philosophy of the holy books.

reply to post by lordgrrl


What are you talking about? Paedophila goes on even among athiests and idol worshippers!

i have an obvious question :

if these ultra orthodox jews are so fundamentalist in thier approach to judaism - shouldnt they be fully embracing levitical law and the strictures of deutronomy ?

i only ask because i dont remember ` fines and compensation ` from the relevant laws in the bible - back then stoning to death and such was the punishment de-jour

anyone help / advise why this is - and dont say because stoning people to death is illegal in 21st century america

the cites already state that these people claim not to be bound by goy law