Suggested Reading on Islam...................

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posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 12:49 PM
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The Sword and the Prophet, by Serge Trifkovic

Dr. Trifkovic has done a great service in writing this fairly short and well-researched survey of the history, theology, and (bad) fruits of Islam. He also analyzes how the West has interacted with Islam in recent history, calling our diplomacy "appeasement", and rightly pointing out the many shortcomings in our diplomacy that have contributed to global terrorism against the West. This is a hard-hitting book that makes statements about Islam by President Bush appear very unwise and bereft of a sound understanding of Islam's true heart and orientation, which is jihad (holy war) against the infidels.

If the book has a flaw it is that Dr. Trifkovic does not make a distinction between Islam the religion and Islamism the 20th-century-style ideology that draws heavily from Marxist-Leninist thought, Nazism and Facism. Dr. Pipes (author of the next book) contends that Islam per se is not a threat, whereas Islamism is a serious threat. Dr. Trifkovic writes convincingly that Islam's theology, history and impact on the world should definitely lead us to conclude that it is not, as many Western academic elites and the news media would have us believe, a "religion of peace." Dr. Pipes, on the other hand, would say that only the Islamist political ideology that draws from and adulterates Islam is the problem, and that we should not confuse the faith and the ideology. Both men write convincingly.

link..............

orthodoxinfo.com...




posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 12:57 PM
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Spam-drivel.
But as always, if cyberchums want to knowanything about Islam (including the Quran, the Hadith, and a tolerable level of Arabic), for a small consideration, Estragon's your chap.



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 12:59 PM
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This initial trade-drivel is what we English call "cobblers" -and I'll wager the obloquy-detector won't filter that.



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 01:01 PM
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Estragon 40: spam-drivellers love (is that appopriate?)



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 01:14 PM
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Its very important to rememeber that in the game chess
one is afforded two nights and two bishops.

What is interesting to note, is which between the two has the greatest mobility.



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 01:19 PM
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This article talks about the The Sword and the Prophet. All religions have had violence in there past especally christianty. When the roman empire was unfied under one religion the "christians" were now the one's doing the Persecuting of the pagens, destroying the temples and such. During the crusades they would force peole to convert or die this holy war by the christians was backed by the pope of europe at the time. Sound familar!?!? the christian Jihad in a way. Plus let's not mention how the christians also killed countless numbers of native peoples in the americas and the Witch Hunts that also took place. Before this guy trie to label a religion he should do some research about his own



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 01:21 PM
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and the silent "k" in "knights": or is that a pun, or mere enthusiasm?
Greatest of two? "Greater?": sigh...yawn...cyberspam...aaarrrgh...



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 01:23 PM
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.."rememebering" that "remembering" but three "e's"
The prosecution rests.



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 04:11 PM
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The one that made me laugh was the Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam

It's very certain that the author lost his grip with reality and history, because Christian Europe did not decline under Islam, it only FLOURISED.

When Muslims conquered the Iberian Peninsula, everyone no matter what religion they were were allowed to practice their religion publicly without fear of being persecuted, contrary to Christendom Europe when they burnt you for being Muslim or Jew.


Let's not forget why the Moors (African Muslims) conquered Spain in the first place. It wasnt for fun. It was because Jews asked them for help because of what the Christians were doing to them

So because Islam is a very compassionate religion towards other religions, the Moors acted quickly, slaughtering the Christian murderers and establishing peace and unity which lasted for eight years.


[Edited on 4-20-2003 by Illmatic67]



posted on Apr, 19 2003 @ 08:26 PM
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Estragon is that prosecution or persecution?

To be certain Estragon, have not yet forgotten my first month moth at this site.

And neither does my memory have any problems recalling the works of one called "Truth".


Shall we compare notes

The defense rest



[Edited on 19-4-2003 by Toltec]



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 12:02 AM
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I'm tired of reading about people blaming the Inquisition and the Crusades on "christians." They were from the Roman Catholic church, period. As a matter of fact christians were killed along with Jews and muslims in the Crusades. The Catholic church is basically paganism with the very useful trappings of Christianity. You can go to cuttingedge.org and read all about Catholicism.
Also, Ill, I find it hard to believe that the Moors were helping the Jews. Just like muslims help them today? Also Europe flourishing under muslim rule? Just like the advanced Islamic nations of today? I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.... and no, please don't go into another "I'm being persecuted" rant, I'm just calling it as I see it. If you can you give me some good links as to where I can read the proof of what you've said I'd appreciate it. Thanks.




posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 01:28 AM
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muslims helping jews???? oh my freakin word. thats a new concept.



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 01:34 AM
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whos after salmon rushdie?? thats some love right there.



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by SandMan
I'm tired of reading about people blaming the Inquisition and the Crusades on "christians." They were from the Roman Catholic church, period. As a matter of fact christians were killed along with Jews and muslims in the Crusades. The Catholic church is basically paganism with the very useful trappings of Christianity. You can go to cuttingedge.org and read all about Catholicism.
Also, Ill, I find it hard to believe that the Moors were helping the Jews. Just like muslims help them today? Also Europe flourishing under muslim rule? Just like the advanced Islamic nations of today? I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.... and no, please don't go into another "I'm being persecuted" rant, I'm just calling it as I see it. If you can you give me some good links as to where I can read the proof of what you've said I'd appreciate it. Thanks.



Well the moors did occupy the Mediterranean for 800 Years. That's a very long time but no one ever talk about that now do they. The U.S ain't even that old and look at how much infulence it's had on the world.

[Edited on 20-4-2003 by abstract_alao]



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by SandMan
I'm tired of reading about people blaming the Inquisition and the Crusades on "christians." They were from the Roman Catholic church, period. As a matter of fact christians were killed along with Jews and muslims in the Crusades. The Catholic church is basically paganism with the very useful trappings of Christianity. You can go to cuttingedge.org and read all about Catholicism.
Also, Ill, I find it hard to believe that the Moors were helping the Jews. Just like muslims help them today? Also Europe flourishing under muslim rule? Just like the advanced Islamic nations of today? I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.... and no, please don't go into another "I'm being persecuted" rant, I'm just calling it as I see it. If you can you give me some good links as to where I can read the proof of what you've said I'd appreciate it. Thanks.



Sandman, what your doing is so ignorant. You trying to disprove Islamic advancment of the past because of Islam of today. Look at Egypt of today, will you disprove ancient Egyptian knowledge because of the Egypt you saw today? No, I dont think so

Why dont you look at a history book instead of looking at how poor Islam is today. Read about Timbaktu, you probably dont even know what that is do you? Ancient Islamic city in present day Mali, back in the day Timbaktu was the most advanced city in the world.

And yes, Islam did spark the Renaissance of Europe. Europe was in the dark ages, Islam was the LIGHT to those Europeans trapped in the darkness. Translations of the Qur'an quickly sparked the rebirth of Europe.

And yes, the Muslims did help out the Jews by slaughtering their christian oppressers.

Read History.



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 12:47 PM
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And yes, the Muslims did help out the Jews by slaughtering their christian oppressers.



they also helped them out in Jerusalem, where the Romans had strongly restricted Jewish religious life. all changed when the Muslims took Jerusalem and allowed free practice of all monotheist religions.

well said, Illmatic67.



posted on Apr, 20 2003 @ 01:22 PM
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Personally illmatic I think that we are wasiting our breath. You can quote verses from the bible which they consider to be "absolute truth" and they still don't believe



posted on Apr, 21 2003 @ 12:33 AM
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Ha ha ha, once again..... Now, now, Ill, I'm not being ignorant and I'm not trying to disprove anything. Notice how I didn't provide any "facts" to the contrary of what you said? I was merely expressing skepticism/ curiosity about what you said. What did translations of the Quran have to do with anything? Last time I checked Europe didn't all convert to Islam. I'm no history major here but give me a break....... There it is again, christian oppressors, probably the Catholics once again. Here's a little something I want you to consider: why would a real Christian be against any race or ethnic group, or whatever, especially the Jews? That's retarded. Biblically it doesn't make any sense.
In closing, I have heard about Timbaktu and the ancient Egyptians in case you wanted to know........



posted on Apr, 21 2003 @ 12:44 AM
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Give up, Sandman, the warped history and the blaming of Christians for the crimes of what was to become the Catholic church is what rules the day here. You are the one who is wasting his breath. Save yourself some heartache.



posted on Apr, 21 2003 @ 12:45 AM
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