Was the government a co-conspirator?

reply to post by homervb

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade There's no direct evidence of US govt involvement in 9/11, and even the ties with Saudi look looser as soon as you look into them.

The ties look looser? The documents are redacted/classified and the public has not seen them. May I ask how you managed to come to this conclusion without seeing these documents? No hostility, just tired of people bashing each other over quality of evidence on both sides of the fence.

You can ask but don't expect an answer. Lol.

reply to post by maxella1


Obstruction of justice, and a very clear pattern that suggest, any documents either been planted, fabricated, or classified, to carry out the the mission...can't trust the accused to convict themselves...as a non-guilty plea has been entered.

Originally posted by maxella1


Lol, easily dismissed evidence by you and some of your boddys here. Not in the real world. But we can't get the investigation for the same reason OJ Simpson didn't go to jail for murder... Good lawyers, Not proved innocents.

It's easily dismissed because there isn't any actual evidence. There's innuendo which takes about three seconds to dispel, and "circumstantial" implied connections that suggest links between certain people. But actual solid evidence of US government involvement in 9/11 does not exist.

And I don't want to lecture you on legal issues, but it's not up to people to prove their innocence. Especially if you can't find and actual reason even to bring them to court.

Originally posted by homervb

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
There's no direct evidence of US govt involvement in 9/11, and even the ties with Saudi look looser as soon as you look into them.

The ties look looser? The documents are redacted/classified and the public has not seen them. May I ask how you managed to come to this conclusion without seeing these documents? No hostility, just tired of people bashing each other over quality of evidence on both sides of the fence.

Sorry - we're talking about two different things, and maybe I wasn't clear. I meant that the evidence that Maxella produces of US ties to Saudi individuals dissolves a little when you look harder at it.

For example above, the extract he employs suggests a strong link between Bush Snr and Bin Laden's brother. When one prods that supposed link it largely disappears. And that's not even a direct piece of evidence connecting a US govt figure to 9/11 because no such piece of evidence is apparently available.

When asked why not, I'm informed that of course it cannot be seen - it's being covered up! One might employ the same argument about the existence of a nazi moon base or telepathy.

The redacted stuff you reference above is not related to links between the US and Saudis. It is simply discussing Saudi official ties to 9/11 and the terrorists. As you see from what I wrote I think this is a definite possibility.

What your material actually does is imply that US authority figures are keen to expose this link. Which would be kind of odd if they were involved in a conspiracy!

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by homervb

 

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade There's no direct evidence of US govt involvement in 9/11, and even the ties with Saudi look looser as soon as you look into them.

The ties look looser? The documents are redacted/classified and the public has not seen them. May I ask how you managed to come to this conclusion without seeing these documents? No hostility, just tired of people bashing each other over quality of evidence on both sides of the fence.

You can ask but don't expect an answer. Lol.

Oops, wrong again.

In fact, ironically but unsurprisingly, you're the one who has failed to answer my arguments.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Plausible denial and suppression and obstruction of justice and few other technicalities just make it impossible to tell who really all is involved, sounds like typically used mode of operation, have seen time and time again, previously, with lying and deception being acceptable excuse and reason to just drop it and forget all about it...does not matter, will not ever matter, so stop trying to figure it out, you can't and no matter if you did figure it out, it still does not matter,. just drink the kool aid and shut up...seems to be your argument...

Originally posted by earthinhabitant
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Plausible denial and suppression and obstruction of justice and few other technicalities just make it impossible to tell who really all is involved, sounds like typically used mode of operation, have seen time and time again, previously, with lying and deception being acceptable excuse and reason to just drop it and forget all about it...does not matter, will not ever matter, so stop trying to figure it out, you can't and no matter if you did figure it out, it still does not matter,. just drink the kool aid and shut up...seems to be your argument...

Sorry, that's not my argument at all. When I see evidence of wrongdoing I am unafraid of discussing it. I consider the US government to be pretty revolting and the Saudis are a vile regime. I don't doubt that members of their government had a hand in 9/11. There's good evidence to suggest it.

What there is not is good evidence of US involvement in 9/11. But I am not prescriptive about this. You are of course welcome to find some and try to prove a link. But no one is able to. I am not asking you to swallow some official line - I am asking for some reason to believe what you are selling. It's you who is forcing the kool-aid, you who requires me to believe you with no actual evidence.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


well, if your are suggesting, that the buildings collapsed then, as claimed is your version of events, same as the official story and NIDST, that would suggest that you are satisfied with the official story and do not feel, it could have been the administration involved, even after all the evidence, as what was Cheney, "giving the no intercept and does the order still stand", testimonial about his conduct suggest to you and who reaped the rewards and profits, ...after the attack and who lied about it..?

How else could have it been done, if it did not entail the project for a new American administration...

The New American Century

Official Website & DVD

This documentary, produced by Massimo Mazzucco, provides the missing link for the truth about 9/11. The missing link is MOTIVE. If you cannot imagine why anyone in government would want to cover up essential evidence, then wonder no more. A terrorist attack was exactly what the members of PNAC hoped for to justify a massive military incursion into the Middle East, all of which was planned long before 9/11.

You will witness decades of maneuvering for the control of oil and gas resources and see, first hand, incredible war profits on a scale much greater than ever before in history. Even if you are familiar with some of these events, this is the first time all of them have been brought together in one place.

This is one of the best 9/11 documentaries and everyone should watch it. Please share it.

Movies : Documentary : DVD Rip : EnglishTHE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY [AVI]
This film is astonishing. Using archival footage, it goes in detail through the untold history of The Project for the New American Century and connects it right into the present, exposing how every major war in US history was based on a complete fraud (with video of insiders themselves admitting it).

For instance, The New American Century demonstates how the first film theaters in the US were used over a hundred years ago to broadcast propaganda to rile the American people into the Spanish-American War.

It also shows the white papers of the oil company Unocal which called for the creation of a pipeline through Afghanistan and how their exact needs were fulfilled through the US invasion of Afghanistan, and how Halliburton under their "cost plus" exclusive contract with the US Government went on a mad dash spending spree akin to something out of the movie Brewster's Millions, yet instead of blowing $30 million they blew through BILLIONS by literally burning millions of dollars worth of hundred thousand dollar cars and trucks if they had so much as a flat tyre.

I have seen a ton of films, but this film contains a massive amount of incredible footage I have never seen before anywhere. It is an historical documentary which exposes all the lies of the past so that you can understand the present. This film is a must see.
Enjoy and Seed!!

“In the White House, they weren’t thinking of 9/11 as an attack, but as a gift!” – Robert Steele, former CIA agent

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
But actual solid evidence of US government involvement in 9/11 does not exist.

Think this has anything to do with it?

I can dig up more examples of destroyed evidence, but this is enough for now. You can look for more yourself.


Senators Accuse Pentagon of Obstructing Inquiry on Sept. 11 Plot

The Pentagon has acknowledged that at least five members of Able Danger have said they recall a chart produced in 2000 that identified Mr. Atta, who became the lead hijacker in the Sept. 11 plot, as a potential terrorist, but they have said that others with knowledge of the project do not remember that.

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, accused the Pentagon of "a cover-up" and said, "I don't get why people aren't coming forward and saying, 'Here's the deal, here's what happened.' "

But Mr. Kleinsmith told the committee that he had been "forced to destroy all the data, charts and other analytical product" in compliance with Army regulations that prohibit keeping data related to American citizens and others, including permanent residents who have legal protections, unless the data falls under one of several restrictive categories.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL

We found that large quantities of data that had been collected at two locations as part of the Able Danger data mining mission were destroyed. One intelligence analyst told us that he destroyed approximately "2.5 terabytes" of Able Danger data that had been collected at the Land Information Warfare Activity (LIWA), Fort Belvoir, V A, where Able Danger activities were initially located. Additionally, an Able Danger analyst testified that a large quantity of "extraneous" data was destroyed when the Able Danger team departed its second location -- a contractor facility in Garland, Texas -- and returned to USSOCOM. We found no basis to conclude that either of those destructions was improper, but rather followed established procedure and violated no regulation.

FAA Manager Mangled, Cut, Destroyed 9/11 Tapes

Information provided to the commission investigating the U.S. government's response to terrorist threats prior to September 11, 2001, names an FAA quality manager in the destruction of an audiotape made in the aftermath of the 9/11 hijackings. Each of at least six air traffic controllers and some ten other employees who were on the job at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) in Ronkonkoma, N.Y., during the World Trade Center attacks gathered several hours after to recall their version of events. But that tape, which could have helped determine how the agency responded to clues that four planes had been hijacked, was destroyed before it was ever heard. In fact, officials at the ARTCC were never even told of the tape's existence. According to the report given to the 9/11 Commission by Department of Transportation Inspector General Kenneth Mead, the audiotape was crushed in the hand of the unnamed FAA employee, then cut into small pieces and tossed into different trash cans around the ARTCC building. Despite the fact that the quality assurance officer had been told to retain all records pertaining to 9/11, he told inspector general investigators he destroyed the tape because he felt making it was contrary to FAA policy, which calls for written statements. He is also quoted to have said the controllers "were not in the correct frame of mind to have properly consented to the taping" because of the stress of the day, and told investigators that faced with a similar situation, he would repeat his actions.

link

Berger's archives visit occurred as he was reviewing materials as a designated representative of the Clinton administration to the national commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Link

Former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was sentenced Thursday to community service and probation and fined $50,000 for illegally removing highly classified documents from the National Archives and intentionally destroying some of them. Berger must perform 100 hours of community service and pay the fine as well as $6,905 for the administrative costs of his two-year probation, a district court judge ruled.

yea, every one knew who they wanted to know and then some, then, now everyone better be waking up, if they do not, as starting to sound like some want to go back to sleep and keep dreaming....no place like home, there's no place like home, as pledge an allegiance to a flag and nation, should mean something besides protecting them from prosecution..

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

Oops, wrong again. In fact, ironically but unsurprisingly, you're the one who has failed to answer my arguments.

I must have missed your questions, I apologize. Please refresh my memory, what are your questions?

reply to post by maxella1


sounds of silence, creeping in, as hope the record is straighter now and if anyone is questioning events and reality, as presented and perceived to be truth, not a bunch of lies and deceit claims, that have been fed us from those implicated in the operations...as thankfully lot of the shills and sockpuppets did not show up, as they know the real deal and just still having to hide it...pay is great and got a family to feed, is justification enough to some...support the entity, even knowingly or not, is still no excuse, and if you know and are doing so, would be aiding and abetting,,,

the only reason, the nay Sayers are hanging on to the "theory that it will never be known" is they know the records and evidence has been destroyed, tampered with and more...thinking that all the evidence that could not clean up, like witnesses and facts and photos and videos and other, suggest and show that not only did they know and participated in it, as that was just the tip of the iceberg..as systematic roots show the organizations and countries links that have a global denominator...

Where did the gold go? Not that money matters, as this was just a fragment of the proceeds and benefits reaped

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
[What your material actually does is imply that US authority figures are keen to expose this link. Which would be kind of odd if they were involved in a conspiracy!

I don't think you got the point of my post. My post isn't connecting Saudis to US officials, it's showing how the US is covering up the links, therefore it's pretty much obstruction of justice.

Person A hires Person B to come in your house and kill your father and mother

Person B is arrested and convicted of murder.

The authorities know that Person A is the one who provided the funding but they try to hide all the evidence from you that links Person A to Person B.

Do you not see a problem with this? Or would you go on your merry way knowing Person A was an accomplice to the murder of your parents and walks away untouched?

That's how I look at it, except I magnify that by about 3,000.

reply to post by earthinhabitant


I am satisfied with the explanation for the colapsing buildings and with the events surrounding the shootdown order, yes. But you're widening the subject, and still not providing any direct evidence.

Without it I'm afraid you're still asking me to drink Kool Aid.

reply to post by maxella1


Okay, there's two options here. One assumes that some of the evidence they've destroyed shows that they are culpable. That they conspired with Saudi Arabians unknown to create 9/11.

The other says that they destroyed evidence which showed them to be incompetent, obsessed by targets and with their eye on totally the wrong ball.

I can't see any compelling reason to think it's the former. Unless you've got some other stuff - especially things that link them to the Saudis, which is evidence I'd expect you to have, since you seem so sure of it. Absent that kind of material I would use Occam's razor and assume the latter explanation. Especially as there is plenty of other evidence for the US government's incompetence.

Originally posted by homervb


I don't think you got the point of my post. My post isn't connecting Saudis to US officials, it's showing how the US is covering up the links, therefore it's pretty much obstruction of justice.

Person A hires Person B to come in your house and kill your father and mother

Person B is arrested and convicted of murder.

The authorities know that Person A is the one who provided the funding but they try to hide all the evidence from you that links Person A to Person B.

Do you not see a problem with this? Or would you go on your merry way knowing Person A was an accomplice to the murder of your parents and walks away untouched?

That's how I look at it, except I magnify that by about 3,000.

Naturally I see the problem with it. I just don't think it suggests an inside job.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

If it was 15 Iranians, it would be Iran attacks the US If it was 15 Syrians, it would be Syria attacks the US If it was 15 North Koreans, it would be North Korea attacks the US But it was 15 Saudis, so it was "all arabs attack the US"

Good point.

Here's another good point in my opinion.

If it was 15 British people or say 15 Canadians.. then it would have been considered 15 individuals.

Disgusting?

I think so!

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

Naturally I see the problem with it. I just don't think it suggests an inside job.

Why do you think this problem exists?