Why Do We Exist Now?

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by morpheusxxz

 

Just remember that from chaos comes order, if you need an example read up a little on Chaos Theory. Chaos theory studies the behavior of dynamic systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions, an effect which is popularly referred to as the butterfly effect. This has a wide range of applications applicable to the multiverse, big bang and Alpha and Omega.

edit on 11-5-2012 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

Agreed. Even a smallest amount of change in the energy or any other initial condition during big bang (in this universe) could have had a butterfly effect and earth wouldn't have been earth. What I am saying is that even if order comes from chaos, it is still a product of chaos like the other chaos. Just because it looks symmetric and beautiful to our mind, we call it in order. If you throw a trillion stones against a wall with force, you will see that at least one of them will be in what we call perfect shape after breaking down. But it is still chaos. Or we may not even get any such perfect shaped stone. Randomness.

reply to post by morpheusxxz

I agree, the universe is full of chaos, and by lets say chance somehow order forms from the chaos, its still order, if even only for a little while. in the vast scale of things this totaly amazes me, especially since entropy must increase.

Is there a finite time scale for order to occur in our universe?

What happens when the stars have all drifted apart and burned out, how can order come from chaos then?

The only answer i can think of is white holes/black holes somehow sharing matter/negative matter between them replenishing/diminishing the respective verses thus stabilising the rate that entropy occurs and allowing existence to continue across the multiverse. If that is the case then this implies intelligence, structure, order.

"If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you”
Nietzsche

Seems to apply if indeed the multiverse its self is intelligent/aware eh?

You have to be kidding, right? That is the most inane question anyone could ask. Do us a favor and delete this post!

reply to post by aardvark888


"You have to be kidding, right? That is the most inane question anyone could ask. Do us a favor and delete this post!"

Which inane question are you referring to? All questions have merit, i was allways taught if you dont know ask, seems reasonable dont you think?

reply to post by Deaf Alien


First off, nothingness is only defined if there is SOMEthing and visa versa. You can't have one without the other.

And second, just because your current form and brain can't remember what happened before you were born doesn't mean you weren't there.

If you subscribe to the idea that we are eternal beings with a temporary form then it becomes a little easier to comprehend I think. The ego makes it much tougher to accept. However being ignorant to what has happened and what will happen is the foundation of the beauty of life. Not knowing and having something to discover is what makes life so rich and emotional. If we knew everything there is to know, it would be pretty boring.

This is really my interpretation of God sacrificing himself so we may live. "He" is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent so we CAN experience. Ignorance truly is bliss.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Maybe this existence is not real and you are trully elsewhere outside of time dimensions and may not sense it. Sorta like the Matrix. They in the Matrix where living in what they thought was present time but was actually the past captured in the future.

All right, to begin with time is linear. One possibility that you exist right now could be that your perception of time starts as soon as you are born. In other words, if you were born in the 1500's, you would be experiencing that as "right now."

Another serious possibility is that our souls exist for infinity and this is just one of the many experiences you are going to have. This might seem like nonsense, but I believe that it is possible to prove this through science eventually.

A third possibility that you exist "right now" is that there is a purpose for your existence. You were meant to experience the events that are taking place at this moment in time in order to learn a lesson or get experience with certain situations. This has the potential to tie in with reason #2.

Also, although time is linear, there is a space that exists outside of the timeline. From here, you could theoretically access any part of the timeline. In addition, the timeline branches out into multiple timelines based on possibilities. So I suppose it would be possible to experience a life in this time period, followed by a life in a previous time period, but I'm not certain that's what happens.

All in all, it is a good question to ask. I hope this helps.

In order to answer your question, I'll have to delve into my own personal philosophy (which is no doubt identical to many peoples').
I believe time is an illusion, and we have always been here, in the universe, and can probably even choose to be born in any era of eternity that we wish. Why this particular time in history? That's something you'd have to ask yourself from before you incarnated. You no doubt had a reason.
If you're wondering why our corporeal existence itself isn't billions of years in the past on another world instead of now on this one... once again, I fear I must offer that we already were. Amnesia is a sad fact of incarnation. I'd like to remember my own travels.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien

Why weren't we born in the past or in the future?

Why now and not then or in the future?

Maybe time requires a past, present and future, the present being the (halfway point) and this is where changes can be made.

Think of yourself on a bus called TIME what you're asking is why are we not sitting on the front bumper or why aren't we sitting perched on the rear bumper! the best place to be inside the bus!

In the end, even the future becomes the past!

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Dear Sir. I was expecting this a long time. You definetly know what I am about to write:

A long time ago, we invented a magical box called computer. An as you´re about to wonder, if you allow your mind to, mankind made possible, after many generations to evolve. It wasn´t simple. But, in order to explain your future, I have to explain the past. When we started studying the properties of atoms, we found a very interesting thing. We could manipulate the spinnings of the lectrons of each atom individually. Just like the perfect and balanced solar system you see today. When we acquiered that knowledge, we started making smaller, but way more efficient computers. We could store, and manipulate, ridiculous amounts of data in a very small space. That gave us the possibility to create a perfect digital environment, with each atom having real physical properties simulated. Then we started creating simple structures, molecules, cells, bacteria....and the concept of having this computer that could simulate a whole universe became popular, and people started creating building blocks, and the entire society was involved in using this incredible tool, so we could fix some problems. As you may now scratch the surface, you were all, sent here, as a blank media, to learn, evolve and reveal the true nature about yourself. Just like in every nice attractions, some people have to stay on the "Backstage" to guarantee that this experience works. All the information you need, in order to fulfill your role here and finish your "homework" is stored inside you, and you can have access if you focus on your childhood memories. I bet 100% that when you were really, really young, you experienced death, and the feeling of emptyness and void. This is normal. Some people say it´s a panic attack, but that´s just your limbic memory in progress. How do you know you´re happy? How do you know you´re sad? In order to experience levels of things, you need a parameter. You were introduced to the concept of DYING soon, to motivate you to look for answers. When you realized that you´re going to die, you became ansious, you were so intrigued by the fact that you felt something you didn´t have the answer to, that you ended up here, revealing this on a website. Your entire life was to look for the truth and here it is. Stop wasting your time, trying to recriate what took eras to achieve, you don´t have the HARDWARE to proccess this amount of data. You must focus on the events happening at your lifetime. We all have two sides, evil, and good. If you read this, and understood, you´ll probably face a dilema: How can I help, if I don´t have the resource. I repeat, you do. it´s inside you. If you´re on the right side of this "battle" when you imagine doing something that makes you cry of happiness, that´s your north. You´ll notice that you have a great rensposability in your hands. When I mean you, I mean you all, that can understand this message. Some people, don´t have access to data, so they can´t build their entire "softwares" to proccess this concept, unfortunately, some people have access to information and knowledge, and they think they´re special somehow, and due to the fear of dying and without the capacity to understand the whole, they thinks that this it, the end of the line, and they really believe on that. They´ll do everything they can, to manipulate the masses, to not have access to information, Your mission here, is to evolve yourself, this is why you´ve being studying about history, geography, astronomy, math, biology...you are preparing your self FOR WAR. but this war is going to be special, you don´t need bullets, weapons. you don´t have to become those you´re trying to improve, in order to stabllish success, you must start teaching the small kids. Forget about the old ones, they are a waste of time. Focus on the kids, try to explain to them this concept. Stop financing and supporting those you despise. Gather your friends, specially if they are skilled workers and start from scratch. If you really think you´re ready for your task. Start Doing. Forget about television and all the trash they push you. Start small villages, with high technology farming and energy supplies. USE YOUR BRAIN, YOU HAVE ONE AND EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE SAME HARDWARE AS YOU. If you have a great Idea, and just don´t know how to show people how great it is, you have a comunication problem, just like a computer without monitor or a printer. Learn to show information, to share, print, draw, sculpt. Whatever...Sorry about the spelling, this was a very difficult one to write..cheers, Eddie

Originally posted by Plotus
I feel like I'm being baited into an argument designed to be subject to atheist ridicule, but frankly they are moot and transient. It is Because it was so chosen by JehovaGod that we live now. And according to Him, man is required to die once then judgment. so the is no circular endless reincarnation. Just because you can think endlessly confusing abstract thoughts, does in no way make them accurate.

Your JehovaGod isn't an abstract thought?

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I think it's because "we" - by definition - are the people who exist now. "We" couldn't exist at another time, because if "we" did, the people who exist at that other time wouldn't be "us", they would be "somebody else". Part of our "being" is our existence at this particular time and place, just as our body and mind are part of our being.

We think of "I" as having certain things associated with it: "this body", "this personality", "this consciousness". I would argue that "I" has other things associated with it: "this exact life history", "this particular location in the universe", "this amound of time behind and ahead of it".

If any of these aspects are altered, our "person" is altered. "I" have "this body". If you remove "this body" and replace it with another, it is no longer "me". If there is a planet identical to Earth on the other side of the universe, and on that planet is a person identical to me with an identical life history and personality, it still isn't me, because "I" live on this side of the universe, and that other guy who lives on the other side is "somebody else".

Originally posted by Deaf Alien

 

The point here is that we would be nothing right now. What is the beginning or the end?

I think some of you understand what I was trying to say.

Doesn't matter if you exist now. What I'm trying to say why NOW? The nothingness had all the time (infinite) before you were born. And it had all the time before you were born and die. Why now?

I get it.

It's like this...

-∞ -------- you here ------- ∞

Good question. Did you know that between the biggest known thing and the smallest known thing lies the size of a human? Apparently we are stuck right in the middle of it all. I have no answer for you. There is one though.

When we talk like this it reminds me of 2 dimensional "flat landers" trying to understand "up". Or vegetables in a garden arguing the existence of "gardeners". When you figure it out , ping me.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


The answer is quite simple: The weak anthropic principle.


I am going to explain:

suppose we were born some other time, like one billion years before, suppose that in a hypothetical universe *that* was the time.

We would still be born at that time and still have the capability of wake up one day and ask.... the very same question "Why now"

In other words, no special choice of time alters the fact that we would always be mesmerized and amazed at the wonder of the now, and we will always be able to ask the question why.

Whether asking the question why makes sense or doesn't make sense really depends on the meaning of the question why.

You can ask why in one way: Why did you do that (in other words, what was the INTENTION behind something)

You can also ask why in another way: Why did the egg break? (in other words, what was the cause behind something.)

When you consider the question "Why now" I have to assume that your question is of the second form of why, in other words, what is the "cause" and then the cause would be that there isn't a direct cause to our existence being linked to "now" other than by its very definition: We experience the now, therefore the time we experience will by definition always be now.

Another cause based interpretation would be why as in by what mechanism, and then the answer would be whatever science is able to piece together from the puzzle. the big bang, formation of planets, yada yada.. etc. Pretty sure that is not the answer you are looking for.

The last interpretation one could take would be "for what purpose" and that interpretation requires the *assumption* that there is a sentient being with a sense of purpose behind your existence. Because I don't like making assumptions, I don't spent time on this one.

So in conclusion, I think I agree that "why now" is a question that cannot be answered. But in my opinion it is because of a misunderstanding of the meaning of the question itself: It *IS* a rather meaningless question once broken down into pieces like this and analyzed.

Sometimes the question why does not really apply.

-rrr

reply to post by Deaf Alien


However, there is some other thought I have about this.

Why now as in why do I experience this moment in my timeline and not any other moment in my timeline, in other words, what defines the "needle on the record" of the universe, if there is one.

Relativity pretty much tells you that there isn't a needle on the record of the universe since time is all relative.

Clearly for a given observer there very much IS a needle on the record because we seem to experience time one moment at a time.

Maybe every particle has its own sense of "now" and that allows us to reconcile the experience of the now with the now-less-ness of a relativistic universe.

I have done some thought experiments, in order to try to understand time and our perception of now, and the subjective experience of the now is, as far as I know unexplained. I think that in principle this difficulty in explaining the now is equivalent to what is known as the "hard problem" in describing consciousness.

Imagine you go into a cloning machine (this thought experiment requires that you accept the idea of materialism)

This teleporter makes an exact copy of you instantaneously, with all the states of all the particles in you.

The very instant it makes that copy it places the copy in a room that is identical to the room where you started.

The two copies of you experience an unbroken split in universes. If the rooms where you were duplicated into (and "scanned from" were to fill with poison gas and kill the "copy" I would not care, but I sure care if it kills me.

WHY?

They are both me, and they are both interchangeable! so it should either NOT matter who dies, or it should matter if EITHER dies, but there should not be this preference that "I rather stay alive, but don't really think I will feel it if my copy dies"

I think this thought experiment illustrates what I am trying to say, except the now is now replaced with the where (or which instance) but time and space are equally interchangeable. So I leave you with that.

-rrr

u r stupid, watever u would know u still stupid bc it is u the same nothing else could b

it is amazing even such easy question u keep rambling same stupid wrong argument, while the answer was given and u know it

u r stupid bc u cant but mean u all the ways, stupidoo incredible stupido

if u r aware it is not about u, in all logics even the most stupid one would say, aware is of smthg else, stupido

obviously around u cant u see smthg going wrong bad all the ways ?? it is irrelevant? still u r here bc of ur precious very personal destiny??

yea sure, u join around internet pretending knowing everything out of google bc y became so mature very smart, u create ur own alphabet yea sure

no wait god create it for u bc he knows all about u more then u
his profession is to fix everyone in details for its best static state, but it is impossible, ohhh so the other version apply
god mean each one dream to fulfill, too bad for who dont dream, but there is a version for this, they get the # of ur dreams till they force themselves to dream like u

so to u, there are infinite dreams to fulfill absolutely any is a pulse for dream, but there is never a big thing happening, why? bc there is nothing voyons but a big fat dreamer creating infinite dreamers while fullfilling them, absurd stupid

i guess it is normal to expect that standard, when all is to destroy then there is nothing to expect for sure

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by Deaf Alien

 

"Some theorized that the time is circular or the universe is a closed loop. That still doesn't answer the question."

No loop is ever closed because theres still a hole in the middle. As to why we are here now, well now is only a perspective, you live in the now because time is a human construct. We are here to experience, thats the meaning of life, it the only logical inference that can explain good and evil. Hope that helps explain the multiverse a little for you. Peace.

edit on 10-5-2012 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

How about a closed sphere made up of rings, within rings, within rings, like the fractal inside of a tree bark?

That notion could place parallel dimensions/possibilities into perspective as well, imo.

reply to post by absolutely


"u r stupid, watever u would know u still stupid bc it is u the same nothing else could b

it is amazing even such easy question u keep rambling same stupid wrong argument, while the answer was given and u know it

u r stupid bc u cant but mean u all the ways, stupidoo incredible stupido

if u r aware it is not about u, in all logics even the most stupid one would say, aware is of smthg else, stupido

obviously around u cant u see smthg going wrong bad all the ways ?? it is irrelevant? still u r here bc of ur precious very personal destiny??

yea sure, u join around internet pretending knowing everything out of google bc y became so mature very smart, u create ur own alphabet yea sure

no wait god create it for u bc he knows all about u more then u
his profession is to fix everyone in details for its best static state, but it is impossible, ohhh so the other version apply
god mean each one dream to fulfill, too bad for who dont dream, but there is a version for this, they get the # of ur dreams till they force themselves to dream like u

so to u, there are infinite dreams to fulfill absolutely any is a pulse for dream, but there is never a big thing happening, why? bc there is nothing voyons but a big fat dreamer creating infinite dreamers while fullfilling them, absurd stupid

i guess it is normal to expect that standard, when all is to destroy then there is nothing to expect for sure"

You do realise we cant really understand what you are going on about right? Or even whom you are directing you rant towards? Stop calling people stupid and telling them the way they think is wrong, thats wrong! Even if it is in such a cryptic manner. I think you may even have a fat joke in there at the end, Totaly unacceptable! Also do yourself a favor, get a refund from whomever taught you how to write the Queens English because they obviously skipped the lessons regarding syntax and sentence structure.

reply to post by andy06shake


We are existing now so we can experience emotions (energy in motion), we can see them arise and then watch them fall back into the nothingness they appeared from. Absolutelys post are a great way to experience the red feeling appear, one can be aware of many, many thoughts and sensations that the appearance of jumbled words can envoke. Marvel at the color and texture of you.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


"We are existing now so we can learn to feel the emotions that rise and watch them fall back into the nothingness they appeared from."

That part i kind of agree on, but something cant come from nothing, its the chicken and the egg all over again.

"Absolutelys post are a great way to experience the red feeling appear,"

Do you mean anger because the way Absolutelys posts certainly infuriates the senses(My Eyes).

"One can be aware of many, many thoughts and sensations that the appearance of jummbled words can envoke. Marvel at the color of you."

Fair point, but im not the only here that can only understand about 1/3 of what Absolutely posts. As to calling people stupid and adding a fat joke, if thats what it is, i find that unacceptable. The subject matter pertaining to this thread is cryptic enough in plain English never mind the broken jiberish coming from Absolutely.