crowd funded ISP start up will change the very nature of the net

the original idea of internet comunications was to encrypt all data such as VPNs or Virtual Private Networks and allow people safty and privacy while browsing the net.
what happened instead was the ability to advertise for funding was used for sucessful early models for revenue gathering.
this meant that your privacy must be sacrificed in order to allow advertisers to trace your actions, so they can target adds directly to consumers.

even now most smaller web sights would not be able to function without advertising revenue, and to achive this advertisers are allowed to "insert" trackers and adds into web pages to gain information to mine you for data on your activities.

in short order we have seen an explosion of tracking tecnology that is used to know everything about you and "profile" you to third party advertisers or "others" interested in your preferences.

the original architecture design of end to end encryption of the back bone of the internet was seen as a block to the free ability of advertisers to make a profit from tracking you and displaying adds directly to your browser.

this model of advertising had some very bad side effects other than the move away from secure and private use of the internet, one main problem was the ability for third party advertisers to have direct access to your web browser and hence computer.

the main advertising for profit model was number through the door or "possable" comsumers reached.
this puts huge power in the hands of advertisers, and also allows for prosicutions of a much greater extent if advertising revenue was gained.

ie
if you commited a small crime on a web sight like copyright infringment, but you had advertising revenue you could be prosicuted as if it was a comerical enterprise and face much harsher penilties and much higher fines.

people want privacy and security and the advertising profit model was the exact opposite of that.

so heres where things change,
a crowd sourced "end to end" encryption isp start up is underway with a non profit model that is imune to trackers ads and hackers.

the idea is an isp who gives a software package to users and encrypts everything through their network, from end to end and cant give up your privacy because even the host ISP cant see what your doing.

this means that the internet becomes private again and only the websight you visit will know you had been there
and the only information stored at the ISP is the IP details.

people demand privacy without realising that the net was originally intended to be fully encypted and it was the need for revenue from advertising that held back that dream



link to video

redit thread

so considering the ecrypted end to end network will alter the tracking for advertising profit model, what will happen when our internet habits are again private?

it will make it alot more difficult for hackers and trackers to mess with you,
when this is publically available i can imagine it will be very popular and will impact the revenue streams of some of the smaller web sights.
it would aslo be a major impact on web sights like facebook who rely on HIGHLY targeted advertising and use methods to "connect" users of their sight to people who dont even use their services.
face book could be tracing people who dont even use their service.
google would only know what searches were done and not by whom ect.



would truly private encrypted browsing emails and chat in an easy to use format revolutionise the web?

would it give back privacy from hackers and trackers?

or would the web simply be as it was first envisioned?

safe secure and private.

The ISP would not merely employ every technological means at its disposal, including encryption and limited logging, to protect its customers. It would also -- and in practice this is likely more important -- challenge government surveillance demands of dubious legality or constitutionality.

CNET

Inject end-to-end encryption for Web browsing. Add e-mail that's stored in encrypted form, so even Calyx can't read it after it arrives. Wrap all of this up into an easy-to-use package and sell it for competitive prices

i can imagine the very fabric of the net shifting towards privacy because we all want and expect it,

a world without adds that know your business, what do you guys and gals think is this guy a genius or what


i for one support his efforts to keep us safe

xploder

Imagine… a telecommunications company that puts privacy as its highest value and believes that the users should have the ultimate control and possession over their communications and data. The Calyx Institute is poised to turn this prospect into reality by launching the first privacy-focused Internet service and Mobile telephone service utilizing ubiquitous, opportunistic encryption as part of its research and development in privacy technology. Calyx's charter directs it to use all legal and technical resources available to protect the rights of its constituents and customers.

source

imagine having privacy again,
imagine not having to give up your rights to privacy just to use the web

imagine

xp

I love the idea in theory but it falls apart in practice.

Even if this one ISP is successful there is the problem of infrastructure. Running an ISP is hard. I am friends with two separate people that have run indie ISPs and I have been a paid consultant for a local WISP. Running copper (much less fiber) is expensive and unfortunately wireless is not up to snuff for the multitudes.

All is not lost for those that value privacy though. I have been working on (unfortunately it is on the back burner) a Linux distro, software package and hardware specs, for a rig designed for a SHTF situation. The short story would be an opensourced OS designed around privacy with TOR and other non-centralized encryption protocols built into the OS paired with HAM radio packet installation out of the box.

Basically, I envision a USB thumb drive that you can plug into any computer and run an ad hoc network that is independent from the Net. Obviously you would need to have a radio. And if you want to have a robust network, you would need your users to understand the basics of repeaters, etc.

In short, I love the idea presented here, but unfortunately, I think that train has left the station. What I (and I hope other like minded people) will prepare for is a situation wherein the tools are in place to create new networks when they are needed.

reply to post by XPLodER


Well in my experience VPN's do nothing to stop trackers or advertisements. Nor does TLS/SLL (https) stop trackers or advertisements.

edit: what you are talking about would simply stop the ISP from tracking your activity. And they aren't authorized to share your personal data anyway (well they are now because of CISPA, but only to the Government).

edit: well actually, yes, a VPN would stop trackers, but only because the tracker would be trying to track the IP of the remote computer which you are funneling your connection through.

It will NEVER happen.

Can YOU contribute this much money to influence United States Politics? Well THEY can... and MUCH more.

Until you can throw that kind of cash around to purchase your own pocketfuls of Senators and Congressmen, you can kiss what YOU want goodbye. Destroying ad revenue through a secure internet would severely affect at least half of the companies on that list.

Add to that the challenges of bringing such a system into being, destroying the business model for a ton of corporations, and eliminating the Government's ability to spy on you?

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

If it does, it will be outlawed and anyone involved in the project will be arrested and imprisoned or have... accidents...

Bandwidth originally didn't cost anything. When Capitalism first discovered the Internet, the first thing that the big telcos did, was attempt to make bandwidth expensive. This is for two reasons.

a] It means more profit for them. (The obvious one)
b] It prevents companies or organisations like the one mentioned in the OP, from existing. It does not matter how altruistic or co-operatively minded you might want to be yourself, if at the end of the day you still have to pay for both incoming and outgoing bandwidth, at a price which is entirely arbitrarily set by someone else.

Psychopaths are evangelical. They want everyone else to be like them. Capitalism gives them a fantastic tool for ensuring that, by ensuring that everyone else has to act in an equally psychopathic manner, in order to be able to pay the commodity prices, rental prices etc that they set. There is no way around it, and that is entirely by design.

Just incorporate.
Then you get all the rights of a person now (ridiculous).
And you get none of the liability.

Dude, the corporation did it!
Unfortunately that is serious.

reply to post by LordOfArcadia

Even if this one ISP is successful there is the problem of infrastructure.

the current hardware and software/cryptographic tecnologies are already common place,
this is a novel use of existing technology

xp

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Well in my experience VPN's do nothing to stop trackers or advertisements. Nor does TLS/SLL (https) stop trackers or advertisements.

i was trying to keep it simple using the VPN anology

edit: what you are talking about would simply stop the ISP from tracking your activity. And they aren't authorized to share your personal data anyway (well they are now because of CISPA, but only to the Government).

in this case if you had a hardware level encryption system offered at the ISP level,
and a software encryption at the information level your information would only be available to the individual website you are on at the time, ie you have to reastablish each encrypted connection to each site, one at a time

edit: well actually, yes, a VPN would stop trackers, but only because the tracker would be trying to track the IP of the remote computer which you are funneling your connection through.

edit on 9-5-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

i shouldnt have used the VPN anology because it gets confusing,
but yes if the system was designed correctly only the IP information is collectable

it would also be a good gaurd against hackers as you would have to have credentials to handshake a connection end to end

xploder

reply to post by Arrowmancer


i though a free market was a place where the public demand set prices,
where you were inocent untill proven guilty

xploder

Originally posted by petrus4
Bandwidth originally didn't cost anything. When Capitalism first discovered the Internet, the first thing that the big telcos did, was attempt to make bandwidth expensive. This is for two reasons.

a] It means more profit for them. (The obvious one)
b] It prevents companies or organisations like the one mentioned in the OP, from existing. It does not matter how altruistic or co-operatively minded you might want to be yourself, if at the end of the day you still have to pay for both incoming and outgoing bandwidth, at a price which is entirely arbitrarily set by someone else.

Psychopaths are evangelical. They want everyone else to be like them. Capitalism gives them a fantastic tool for ensuring that, by ensuring that everyone else has to act in an equally psychopathic manner, in order to be able to pay the commodity prices, rental prices etc that they set. There is no way around it, and that is entirely by design.

the law of the markets,
if public demand is great the profits are great and the market will respond,
in a free market economy.
the idea is if enough people expect privacy then there will be demand.

and the current tech and software already exists to allow a much safer internet experience.
people do have an expectation of privacy unless they have done something wrong,
if you have done nothing wrong why wouldnt you have an encrypted isp?
for business reasons, for personal reasons,
for security, for privacy,
if there is a demand there will be a market
it is not illegal in any way

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Be as naive as you like, our economic system doesn't even remotely resemble a free market. Take away regulatory power, and you've cut the legal system off at the knees. And THEY are the ones that will allow it or make it illegal.

There is no free market in the US. Everything is regulated to ridiculous lengths.

reply to post by Arrowmancer


lol
too many people want to be safe online,
i myself was hacked and had equipment destroyed.
daily we are tracked so that advertisers can make a buck off us,
the internet architecture was always invinsioned to be an encrypted network.
a private network where you can comunicate with others and share ideas and inovation.

if people want to colaberate over the internet for business purposes it gets very expensive to keep your information safe.

advertisers have been linked to trojens and back door programs which lead to the risk of identity theift.

an encrypted network hard ware infrastructue is the simple progression of the internet getting more and more unsafe for the vast majority of people.

these days you almost have to be a coputer specialist to keep your self safe,
you almost have to be an attorney to understand the contracts and terms and agreements signed for common services.

you cant easily protect yourself from hackers or trackers, it takes too much time and effort.

this is a simple evolution of privacy and security to twart the uncscrupulous who seek to use the naive internet users to exploit there privacy and security to make comerical profit

it is nieave to beleive that our information is safe on an unencrypted internet network.

when demand for saftey is important (as it is in this environment) offering the security of tracker free and hacker free internet that is simple and effective is a good profit model.

all the people i have talked to have saif=d what a great idea

xploder

Originally posted by LordOfArcadia
I love the idea in theory but it falls apart in practice.

Even if this one ISP is successful there is the problem of infrastructure. Running an ISP is hard. I am friends with two separate people that have run indie ISPs and I have been a paid consultant for a local WISP. Running copper (much less fiber) is expensive and unfortunately wireless is not up to snuff for the multitudes.

All is not lost for those that value privacy though. I have been working on (unfortunately it is on the back burner) a Linux distro, software package and hardware specs, for a rig designed for a SHTF situation. The short story would be an opensourced OS designed around privacy with TOR and other non-centralized encryption protocols built into the OS paired with HAM radio packet installation out of the box.

Basically, I envision a USB thumb drive that you can plug into any computer and run an ad hoc network that is independent from the Net. Obviously you would need to have a radio. And if you want to have a robust network, you would need your users to understand the basics of repeaters, etc.

In short, I love the idea presented here, but unfortunately, I think that train has left the station. What I (and I hope other like minded people) will prepare for is a situation wherein the tools are in place to create new networks when they are needed.

edit on 9-5-2012 by LordOfArcadia because: (no reason given)

I can make something with my old handset modem for pay telephones.
And my lap top and my handi-talkies (ham radios)
But something totally cool is the long range wireless.

Set up a WAN by installing a battery and an antenna and a lap top on a roof.
Long Range Wireless good enough to stream video.

if we are guilty until proven guilty then the only option is,


because we are at risk from trackers hackers and others for just using the net

what ever happened to safe from unreasonable searches and seizures?

xploder

acually thinking aboutit,
this new ISP would make it simple and cost effective to protect strategic govenment infrastructure,
you could use this method as a very simple way of protecting govenments from hacking attacks

i think the govenment could use this ISP for a very cost effective "protective net" without the need for expesive upgrades or monitering

this would be useful to al sorts of agencies ect.

and lower the costs acociated with malware and firewall monitering ect

it would be very simple to deploy to independante sights of key infrastructe, and avoid direct access to anyone without access to that sectioned off intranet.

saves the govenment millions and makes them more secure from cyber attack

xploder

i found this video, and thought i would post it here

customers are not instantly suspects just for using the web
we should be safe from criminals and trackers



rt coverage of interview with new businessman

xploder

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


here is a more in depth video about why how and who this design of ISPs
is going to help.



xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


here is a very good vid explaining alot about isp and gag orders ect



covers what happens when isps are asked for information

xploder