Is The Bible Real?

reply to post by Sahabi


The fact that you use sarcasm to defend yourself states that you have no legitimate, logical arguments with which to rebuke the evidence I have brought forth on this topic.

I'll consider this your concedence of defeat in this discussion.

reply to post by micmerci


That's pretty easy, actually.

People with lots of money and lots of influence can keep something going for a very long time.

And as you can see from the world around you, given the choice between mass chaos and a suplicant, docile society of ignorance...

Well, let's just say most people choose the blue pill, because it's so much easier just to go back to sleep.

This is from a post I just put up on the "Exposing the tragic fabrication..." thread.

Thanks to member ciscoagent for bringing to to my/our attention

Forged Orgins of the New Testament from exminister.org

The majority of modern-day Christian writers suppress the truth about the development of their religion and conceal Constantine's efforts to curb the disreputable character of the presbyters who are now called "Church Fathers" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xiv, pp. 370-1). They were "maddened", he said (Life of Constantine, attributed to Eusebius Pamphilius of Caesarea, c. 335, vol. iii, p. 171; The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, cited as N&PNF, attributed to St Ambrose, Rev. Prof. Roberts, DD, and Principal James Donaldson, LLD, editors, 1891, vol. iv, p. 467). The "peculiar type of oratory" expounded by them was a challenge to a settled religious order (The Dictionary of Classical Mythology, Religion, Literature and Art, Oskar Seyffert, Gramercy, New York, 1995, pp. 544-5). Ancient records reveal the true nature of the presbyters, and the low regard in which they were held has been subtly suppressed by modern Church historians. In reality, they were:

"...the most rustic fellows, teaching strange paradoxes. They openly declared that none but the ignorant was fit to hear their discourses ... they never appeared in the circles of the wiser and better sort, but always took care to intrude themselves among the ignorant and uncultured, rambling around to play tricks at fairs and markets ... they lard their lean books with the fat of old fables ... and still the less do they understand ... and they write nonsense on vellum ... and still be doing, never done."(Contra Celsum ["Against Celsus"], Origen of Alexandria, c. 251, Bk I, p. lxvii, Bk III, p. xliv, passim)

Please note, readers, that the remarks are followed by their sources, which can be assumed to be experts until we find it stated that they are not, or they are spreading lies. Like the Church.

Is The Bible Real?

It's a tangible and solid thing. So it's real.
If you are asking if it has etherial value or has truth ... that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Here's an interesting bit from www.exminister.org... again:

How the Gospels were created

Constantine then instructed Eusebius to organize the compilation of a uniform collection of new writings developed from primary aspects of the religious texts submitted at the council. His instructions were:

"Search ye these books, and whatever is good in them, that retain; but whatsoever is evil, that cast away. What is good in one book, unite ye with that which is good in another book. And whatsoever is thus brought together shall be called The Book of Books. And it shall be the doctrine of my people, which I will recommend unto all nations, that there shall be no more war for religions' sake"
(God's Book of Eskra, op. cit., chapter xlviii, paragraph 31)

See that? It claims that what Constantine, who was a Sol Evictus follower, wanted was NO MORE WAR FOR RELIGIONS' SAKE. Same as what Jesus wanted....stop fighting. So, good on Constantine. Too bad his "council" weren't up to the task ....although he told them "make them [the united, selected books in this one volume] to astonish"

Make them to astonish" said Constantine, and "the books were written accordingly" (Life of Constantine, vol. iv, pp. 36-39). Eusebius amalgamated the "legendary tales of all the religious doctrines of the world together as one", using the standard god-myths from the presbyters' manuscripts as his exemplars. Merging the supernatural "god" stories of Mithra and Krishna with British Culdean beliefs effectively joined the orations of Eastern and Western presbyters together "to form a new universal belief" (ibid.). Constantine believed that the amalgamated collection of myths would unite variant and opposing religious factions under one representative story.

I was never introduced to that factoid before....instead, I had labored under the impression he was trying to rule with an iron fist....apparently he was trying to establish peace....
but, as per usual in our known history, the either ignorant or corrupt "supervisors" - the clergy - in whose hands was given the task on the ground failed. Interesting.

(the above is also from the other thread....)

Thanks, starchild for starting this thread. Good on ya!

NOTE: If Constantine thought this mighty summary was going to create peace on earth, AND it contains all of the nonsensical misogyny that the Old Testament promotes....perhaps he was trying to write down how it "used to be" and then "how it is going to be now"....which included the Jesus messages of kindness, humility, acceptance of women and children, tolerance, compassion, and forgiveness.

Maybe he should've left off the OT, and not provided the "prologue". Seems the patriarchal tendencies of historic culture in our latest "ongoing civilized humanity era" have overriden the message of peace and socialistic cooperation once again.
*sigh*

I don't know yet for sure what I think...I've only scratched the alternative surfaces here...thanks again to everyone who is providing links and more info!!

So....thanks to ciscoagent's link...it now seems that the "fabrication" itself was not "tragic," but the idea of Constatine's, as noted in my two above posts, which was to create a Universal religion, backfired.

Perhaps because the book was too "astonishing".....so now, if it were up to me, I'd say....
okay, REWRITE....It's TOO astonishing, and doesn't even make sense. They've struggled for 2000 years to get the point, but failed. War is still going on.....much blood-letting, greed, slavery, etc.

The Bible was a fail as an experiment or tool to establish PEACE. It isn't even recognized for what it was always SUPPOSED to be...an amalgamated work to contain the mythos of ALL religions, satisfy EVERYONE.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Time for a new plan.
(copied from the other above-cited thread as well....just my thoughts... )

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Starchild23


I thought you would have understood me better by now: I adhere to no religion or any 'holy' book. I was simply answering the literal question of your thread title.

The Bible is as real as a dictionary, car, or house. The Bible is literally a real thing.

Maybe if your thread title was worded a bit better we wouldn't be here jousting over semantics.

Originally posted by nahahh
Yes, the B.I.B.L.E. is real. To those that BELIEVE. It's a FAITH THING.

Here's the real deal.....the majority of people have never STUDIED the WORD of God, for themselves. They briefly skimmed through it...and think they "know" something. You don't know SQUAT about God's WORD. How do i know? You still BORROW!!! And, if you had studied God's WORD, you would have known that God said: "Do NOT BORROW, for the BORROWER IS SLAVE TO THE LENDER!" So many KEYS, to living a victorious life on earth...in God's WORD. Too bad 99% of the population is TOO LAZY to study it; or too RELIGIOUS to understand it. Religious people can be found in and OUT of church. God is an AWESOME GOD and HIS laws are just and fair. Unlike the B.S. system/world we live in. We take EVERYTHING "they" say as gospel.

studied the word from a mythical being???...you don't have a damn clue if "a god" said any of this...and as far as your "awesome god"...according to his "words in the bible" your supposed to stone to death a lot of people...sorry, when i have MORE compassion for people than "god" does...i tend not to believe how awesome he is.

i have one "religous" credo i live by....no church needed, no silly rules to follow, no giving away of hard-earned money to some organized religion, no kneeling, no praying, ........it's this......DO ONTO OTHERS, AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO ONTO YOU.
no welfare/jobs program for all those religous leaders, and no tax breaks for religous businesses!!

reply to post by micmerci


You quoted the doctor as saying:

yet, in spite of all, it· marches on to ever new triumphs, seeming to be, claiming to be, and proving itself to be, the Living Word of God

Seems to me, that Frank Herbert's Dune series, arguably the best science-fiction series of all time, was just as valid as a moral and ethical discourse, and far more coherent. Maybe we should use it instead as representative of the state of mankind and where we're headed, as well as where we've been. Either way, they're both written by man.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks for contributing! I love the insight!

Basically, human nature will always want something to fight...it's the remnants of our animals instincts. There's a reason we love football and rugby. And considering how hate and dislike comes so much easier than love, of course we're going to appreciate the violent aspects of the Bible.

If you don't know what I'm trying to say (I'm still fighting to shrug off the lack of intelligible responses to this thread) then too bad.

reply to post by Sahabi


If all you answer is the title, why do you even bother taking part in the thread?

I can't respond to this politely. Either read the OP, or leave the thread. I'm not here to play games.

reply to post by Sahabi


The Bible is an unfortunate relic, misunderstood, poorly written, jumbled, confusing, and useless as a historical guide OR as a social handbook except for ONE MESSAGE:
The Golden Rule.

reply to post by Sahabi


This is the only name I have ever had.

I'm not surprised I have garnered such a reputation. Even those who know me in real life understand that I have very little patience with fools...and that I prize the principle of using logical and reason in every aspect of life. And really, half the reason these people are on this site is because they are fools.

My OP was not literal. My title stated the topic, my OP fleshed it out. And my OP did not in any way imply that it was a literal question, except as regards the contents of the Bible. Your literal answer was either a dumb attempt as being cute, or a serious oversight in the ciritcal thinking category.

Either way, I don't appreciate it.

reply to post by Starchild23


I did read your op. There is nothing new that I discovered in it.

Is the Bible really from God? Has it been tampered with, or corrupted? Dude, these answers are so obvious and evident.


You want a contribution to your thread?

All one needs to do is research the Councils of Carthage and Nicea. We discover that the most wealthy, most politically-connected, and most influential church leaders were the ones to set the standards for cannon, doctrine, and dogma.


Peace.

reply to post by Starchild23


The Christian bible most here are familiar with ( KJV) is much like a field allowed to go fallow. Within it, you will find grasses, natural weeds, flowers, a few very young trees and an odd assortment of grains seeded by the wind and passing birds. Each and every plant within it has positive qualities depending entirely on the knowledge and wisdom of the person wandering through it. Even the lowly burdoch has a value beyond sticking burrs to your socks. Some of those plants are from birds who had an agenda to carry out while others were planted through the serendipity of humans over the passing millenia

To say that nothing worthwhile can be found within its pages is as unrealistic as stating that it is an infallible source for living your life. There are thorny rasberry bushes as well as patches of strawberries in that fallow field, so it's important to walk with care while wearing good shoes and long pants (in case of poison ivy).

Is the bible real? Yes it is. As real as the Law of Return, one by which we should all live... do unto others, you reap what you sow, what goes around comes around (yada yada).

reply to post by wildtimes


Hey, now. I've been diagnosed (perhaps mistakenly..regardless!) with asperger's.

Referencing these people is a disgrace to those who have aspergers.