Is The Bible Real?

Since we all know what this is about I'm going to post a couple of excerpts outlining key points in the rebuttal of the Bible. My personal stance: the Bible isn't required for people to behave. And anyone who has to read a lie every day in order to have hope...well, I don't know what to say to that, except "ooh, harsh."

Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says:

"..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men...."

Yep. The Bible was not faxed from heaven, which means there will be inherent flaws. However, those flaws must be repressed, especially if the alternative is a complete revealing of every lie ever inserted into the Bible, which will inevitably result in Christianity being overthrown.

The only verses in the whole Bible that explicitly ties God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one "Triune" being is the verse of 1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

This is the type of clear, decisive, and to-the-point verse I have been asking for. However, as I would later find out, this verse is now universally recognized as being a later "insertion" of the Church and all recent versions of the Bible, such as the Revised Standard Version the New Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible, the New English Bible, the Phillips Modern English Bible ...etc. have all unceremoniously expunged this verse from their pages. Why is this? The scripture translator Benjamin Wilson gives the following explanation for this action in his "Emphatic Diaglott." Mr. Wilson says:

"This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifteenth century. It is not cited by any of the ecclesiastical writers; not by any of early Latin fathers even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have lead them to appeal to it's authority. It is therefore evidently spurious."

Slowly but surely, every "fact" regarding God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as trumpeted by the Church, is being retracted quietly.

This observation is by no means limited to the New Testament. There is even similar evidence that at least parts of Deuteronomy were not written by their claimed author, prophet Moses . This can be seen in Deuteronomy 34:5-10 where we read

"So Moses....DIED... and he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses)... He was 120 years old WHEN HE DIED... and there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses....(Deuteronomy 34:5-10)"

Did Moses write his own obituary? Similarly, Joshua too speaks in detail about his own death in Joshua 24:29-33.

And the sources themselves! The original authors...they can't even tell the story right.

I'll leave this link with you, so that ATS may peruse at its own leisure.

The False Bible

Please keep all discussion polite and respectful.

I'll return tomorrow to see how this thread's going. Believe me, I will contribute.

Just because tradition calls the Pentateuch the "Book of Moses" does not necessarily mean that Moses authored any of it. The book was about Moses with many quotes attributed to him. I personally think there were a few writers.

Scripture is a funny thing. It is so easy to scrutinize but it has held up for such a long time. Why not hold the writings of the detractors to the same standard? Their writings are by men, thus can be equally fallible in their content.

You bring up a good point. Detractors of Christianity often miss the point altogether. They will point out that a talking snake is impossible, that the Earth is obviously over 6,000 years old, and similart issues and proclaim eruditely that the Bible is therefore false. Picking on the mythology in the Bible is child's play. It doesn't really make a point. Yes, there are people who believe it literally. Fine. There are people who believe a lot of strange things: chemtrails, for example. No one is going to change their minds.

But the fact is that many Biblical scholars, people who are erudite in their own right, and teachers and students in many main stream seminaries, have come to a very quiet conclusion. Jesus was a charasmatic man with a message. Period. The Bible is a collection of stories that has survived, one of the oldest. Many did not. It's our loss. But within the obvious mythology are stories that may have a germ of truth in them. Noah's Flood, for example. Did it happen like the Bible says it did? Of course not, but very likely there was a flood.

This is interesting stuff. It's worth pursuing. Insisting that it is "not real" is pointless and shows a lack of curiosity about what really happened. The "It's the Word of God" versus "It's completely false" argument misses the whole point altogether. Taking an extremist viewpoint cheapens what the Bible, with all its ancient stories can provide us.

This is not as full an accounting as I hoped to write, but I've run out of time for tonight....

and then there is this by Dr. W Graham Scroggie

.Yes, truly, this Book is the Word of God. Other books, the very best, disappoint and fail us, but this one never. Other books come and go, but this one abides forever. Other books appeal to intellect, or conscience, or heart, but this one appeals to them all. Other books are for certain occasions and seasons, but this one is needed at all times and is equal to all occasions. Other books are for specific people and ages, but this one is universal and timeless. No book has been more bitterly assailed, neither one so gloriously vindicated. Julian and Celsus, and Porphyry, and Bolingbroke, and Hume, and Voltaire, and Strauss, and Renan, and Eichhorn, and Graf, and Wellhausen, and Kuenen, have all fired their deadliest volleys; yet, in spite of all, it· marches on to ever new triumphs, seeming to be, claiming to be, and proving itself to be, the Living Word of God

I think the quote in the OP was taken a bit out of context

reply to post by Starchild23


Well now..that is long.!! It would take me days to go thru all of that! Interesting!!
Whether the bible is real or not is a matter of faith. People want to believe that life has a purpose and there is a destiny of Heaven, the reward for those who believe that being "good" will get you there at the end of life here on Earth. There is so many awful things that happen here on Earth every day. Heaven is a beautiful hope where all is well and wonderful. Sounds good to me.
Once upon a time the word of the one in the pulpit was all you needed. His or her word was Gospel and no one doubted what was said and unfortunately that is still going on today with many people. They like being told what to think about the bible instead of sorting it out for themselves.
I learned to read at 4 years old, so by the time I was 12, I was already questioning much of what I was reading in the Bible. I think that many times the writers of the bible let their own biased opinions get in the way and to them that was the inspired word of God speaking to them. The truth as they saw it.
I will have to wait and see what others have posted and their thoughts on this.

So I have a rebuttal question for the OP:

Is the Qur'an real?

Islam says that the Qur'an was dictated word for word to Mohammad by the angel Gabriel. Christianity says the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit but still written by human hands. The writers personalities are evident in the various books. But not so for the Qur'an- as it is a direct dictation it needs to be evaluated as such. Any trace of human influence therefore negates the validity of the angel inspired dictation.

reply to post by Starchild23

Good question there, Starchild. Is it real? As in tangible, or as in truth? Tangible yes, all true, no. Like you said, it was not faxed down from God him/herself. It is, however, the works of MAN, translated by MAN, edited by MAN, for an agenda of MAN.

That Agenda would be control of a people from a platform of faith alone.

Whether or not that verse in 1John, as well as many other verses and chapters that have come into question, such as the ending of Mark, or chapter 8 of John is controversial among scholars and laymen alike. Their may be much agreement on that one verse, but not so on MANY others.

Those who favor the Textus Receptus being proponents of the KJV only crowd, who believe that the removal of any verse is a travesty. And of course, those who favor Westcott and Hort's trashcan manuscript, along with the Alexandrian, and other manuscripts, which many newer translations are from.

Longevity and popularity do not the "word of God" make. Nevertheless, the bible is a historical document, and should be respected as such. But it has most certainly become fashionable to edit out verses, or at least tell the reader it wasn't in the "oldest" manuscripts so as to cast doubt. Of course, the average christian isn't going to pour over lexicons, and the differences in origins of manuscripts like some of us have. So they are left wondering, believing, or just accepting those verses weren't meant to be there.

The word of God or not. That kind of pseudo-scholarship is no better than deleting, or footnoting portions of Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, or Shakespeare's Hamlet, and telling the reader those portions aren't there in the "oldest" of manuscripts. Yet not mentioning that they ARE there in the majority.

So is the bible "real"? Of course it is. And it has shown itself to have value as a historical document.
Is it the word of God? I think that's for each individual to decide for themselves. But it will most certainly be by faith.

According to ancient Roman citizens, the written works of Julius Caesar would have been the words of a god. The wreath on his head made it so.

Originally posted by Starchild23
And anyone who has to read a lie every day in order to have hope.

Here we go again. Bash the Bible day.

Your level of hatred towards this free Book proves the book of YHWH is true and YHWH loves us all by sending us His son, Jesus Christ, so that we can be saved.

If the Book was written by man, why have the elite just wiped themselves off the face of this earth thanks to covering this world with DU (Wormwood) ?

Please explain that one. The word suicide springs to mind.

Yes, the B.I.B.L.E. is real. To those that BELIEVE. It's a FAITH THING.

Here's the real deal.....the majority of people have never STUDIED the WORD of God, for themselves. They briefly skimmed through it...and think they "know" something. You don't know SQUAT about God's WORD. How do i know? You still BORROW!!! And, if you had studied God's WORD, you would have known that God said: "Do NOT BORROW, for the BORROWER IS SLAVE TO THE LENDER!" So many KEYS, to living a victorious life on earth...in God's WORD. Too bad 99% of the population is TOO LAZY to study it; or too RELIGIOUS to understand it. Religious people can be found in and OUT of church. God is an AWESOME GOD and HIS laws are just and fair. Unlike the B.S. system/world we live in. We take EVERYTHING "they" say as gospel.

Try throwing the bible at a window.. If the window breaks then its real. Thats how I figure these things out.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I believe the Bible is real.

However I also believe that everything written in it is 99.9% exaggerated, blown out of proportion, and COMPLETELY different to how it was origionally written.

There is no man in the sky, he did not send down his son to be our saviour, and therefore will NEVER return,

I Jesus is so AMAZING, where is he right now whilst these babies are being raped and tortured? (Yes I mean now, real time) This is one example of MILLIONS of terrible things that happen AS WE SPEAK - Yes, in REAL TIME)
The list is endless, Period, enough said.

reply to post by Starchild23

The book called 'The Bible' is a collection of manuscripts...
...the most common collection today contains 66 documents written by 44 authors over about 3500 years.

The idea that these documents are without error is a very recent one...
...held by a small group of fundamentalists mainly in the USA.

The collection does have a thread or common worldview running through them...
...and it is this that many people are not comfortable with.

To make a lie believable, you have to mix it with the truth. The truth in the bible is simple, its the part where you are told to love your neighbour. As long as people can do this, things will be fine. Anything else is detrimental to the well-being of humanity, as the world we live in demonstrates.

reply to post by Starchild23

Is The Bible Real?

Your thread title scared me so I went to go check on my various Bibles to make sure I wasn't crazy.

They are still here; physical books of scribed paper produced from the wood of trees. Good, I'm not crazy

Yeah, Bibles are real. If you doubt it I could throw one at you so that your physical perceptions can verify their existence. Joking

Peace be with you.

Is the Bible real?

Certainly.

Geographically, the bible is accurate.

Landmarks described in both the Old and new testaments have been found. One of my favorite examples is the Chaplain that became an officer in WWI. After his unit being pinned down by Turkish soldiers allied to germany in Palestine, the former chaplain remembered a verse in Samuel where David went up a goat path between two natural rock pillars and into the rear position of the Philistines. ironically, they were in the same area...and lo, there were the same pillars on the same mount...and they mounted a rear attack against the turkish machine guns and won.

Up until the mid 1800s, Nineveh was thought to be a myth. using details and clues from the Bible along with oral and folk tradition, archeologist found the ruins of nineveh exactly as described in the Bible.

During the first Gulf War of 1990-91, the US couldn't find Saddam's tanks and armour. They guessed that he had buried them up to their turrets to hide them and form a semi-mobile line of resistance. Knowing that heavy and compacted objects retain heat longer than loose objects, the US used their thermal imaging satellites to find the tanks. They did and they were subsequently destroyed.

What they also found amazed them. A path of compacted sand that went from the ancient Egypt land of Goshen through the Sinai Penninsula across a shallow portion of the Red Sea and into Saudi Arabia... not to Mt Sinai but the Mountain of God as locals called it. Subsequent excursions have found the same landmarks as described in the Exodus, the same phenomenons occurring regularly such as mass migrations of quail, a spongy substance exuding from local fauna that is edible, and bushes that actually ooze an oily substance that in some cases is flmmable but will not destroy the plant...

Historically, the lineage of kingships, pharoahs, wars, invasions, exiles are all documented not only in the Bible, but on monuments in countries such as Egypt, ancient Assyria, Lebanon, even the sanskrit receipts in Assyria which depict transactions between the natives and the exiled Hebrews of circa 800BC. We can also source Josephus, a Hebrew Roman historian. We know Pontius Pilate lived, and served as governor. We know the Herod family did rule Palestine/ Israel. We do know that crucifixian was a normal and predominant means of torture and death.

Socially, we know the habits of people, means of eating, cultural endeavors such as music, holidays, the markets and trading, styles of dress, birth and funeral traditions are all varified, agricultural endeavors...wheat, grains, pig production in non-Jew areas vs goat and sheep production in Jewish areas...all can be varified by digs, documents, and even examining the proverbial dung heap.

Some question the validity of the resurrection and holiness of Jesus. The Apostles have been accussed of mounting the whole thing...for what? Imprisonment? Execution, crucifixian, stoning, exile? If they had recieved a reward of money or fame..so be it. Instead, they were killed and bannished and persecuted and prosecuted...for a lie?

So...what we are really asking here is... Is God real? We know the mundane day to day things happened...but was Jesus really the Son of God? Did all of those miracles really happen?

If a person beats cancer and goes on to live a wonderful life...was it medicine or a miracle? It all comes down to faith. Was it lightening that struck a mud hole and formed the compunds necessary for life or was it God that made the lightening that struck the mudhole that formed the compounds of life?

Arguments can be made both ways, but until you have truly spritually walked with God, nothing can convince you. And once you have, nothing will unconvince you.

Most people admit...including some scientists and doctors, that there are some things that don't fit...they don't make sense... it should have never happened, but it did. this is where we enter the paranormal...beyond normal...the supernatural...out side of natural.

Intelligent people and intellectuals will tow the line of confirmed sciences... but when pushed or off the record...they... we all have stories and events and occurances that didn't make sense. This is where faith comes in... the cancer victim that should have died but made a full recovery... the silent phone call that delayed your leaving a couple of minutes and once departing you find that delay kept you out of a car accident... a dream that causes you to call a relative only to find something really did happen..

The Bible is real. I believe it is spiritually real also.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Informative and awesome post.

reply to post by nahahh


I'm loving how you used god's words to create your own argument...

Can you use your own words? I'm seriously considering ignoring or picking apart anything that isn't in people's own words...

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I can describe the White House to the last bush or blade of grass, and have Obama nailed right down to the length of his tie, and still completely fabricate any conversation happening there.

And that's the important part: THE DIALOGUE.

By the way, how sure are you that Nazareth was there at the time? It was, reportedly, a mass grouping of tombs. Not exactly a good place to raise a Messiah. Not to mention a political leader of that time fails to mention Jesus at all.

There are some serious loopholes in this. Don't mistake me, some of the stories teach good lessons...but the Bible makes such a crappy history book, it's incredible.