What Military personnel are and are not.

I think there is a huge misconception about the Military around here on ATS. We were not and are not "Mindless Nazi's" carrying guns and flags to protect political or economic interests.

We are people. We have families, lives and feelings. There is a sort of kill switch that gets switched on when you kill another a Human being, but convicted murderers have this same sort of switch flipped. Killing is killing and it has an effect on you I can not even begin to explain. I vomited the first time I knew that it was I that fired the shot that killed a man. I also felt sick every time after though it did get easier to justify and do, especially when your being shot at.

Now that being said. NOT EVERY PERSON IN THE MILITARY IS "COMBAT ARMS" OR "WAR FIGHTERS". A good 75+% of the Military that has been deployed have never fired a single shot at another Human. This is the truth.

You all say Military personnel are inundated with propaganda and taught to kill. This is simply not true. A majority of the jobs in the Military are "Support" jobs that receive little to no actual combat training. They are taught self-defense tactics.

Here is a list of US Army MOSs and US Navy Rates.
US Army Jobs
US Navy Jobs
As you can see few carry weapons constantly.

Now as for the Propaganda that Soldiers and Sailors suffer through.

The Soldier's Creed
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.

Seven Values of the US Army
Loyalty
Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers. Bearing true faith and allegiance is a matter of believing in and devoting yourself to something or someone. A loyal Soldier is one who supports the leadership and stands up for fellow Soldiers. By wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army you are expressing your loyalty. And by doing your share, you show your loyalty to your unit.
Duty
Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team. The work of the U.S. Army is a complex combination of missions, tasks and responsibilities all in constant motion. Our work entails building one assignment onto another. You fulfill your obligations as a part of your unit every time you resist the temptation to take shortcuts that might undermine the integrity of the final product.
Respect
Treat people as they should be treated. In the Soldier's Code, we pledge to treat others with dignity and respect while expecting others to do the same. Respect is what allows us to appreciate the best in other people. Respect is trusting that all people have done their jobs and fulfilled their duty. And self-respect is a vital ingredient with the Army value of respect, which results from knowing you have put forth your best effort. The Army is one team and each of us has something to contribute.
Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own. Selfless service is larger than just one person. In serving your country, you are doing your duty loyally without thought of recognition or gain. The basic building block of selfless service is the commitment of each team member to go a little further, endure a little longer, and look a little closer to see how he or she can add to the effort.
Honor
Live up to Army values. The Nation's highest military award is The Medal of Honor. This award goes to Soldiers who make honor a matter of daily living Soldiers who develop the habit of being honorable, and solidify that habit with every value choice they make. Honor is a matter of carrying out, acting, and living the values of respect, duty, loyalty, selfless service, integrity and personal courage in everything you do.
Integrity
Do what's right, legally and morally. Integrity is a quality you develop by adhering to moral principles. It requires that you do and say nothing that deceives others. As your integrity grows, so does the trust others place in you. The more choices you make based on integrity, the more this highly prized value will affect your relationships with family and friends, and, finally, the fundamental acceptance of yourself.
Personal Courage
Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral). Personal courage has long been associated with our Army. With physical courage, it is a matter of enduring physical duress and at times risking personal safety. Facing moral fear or adversity may be a long, slow process of continuing forward on the right path, especially if taking those actions is not popular with others. You can build your personal courage by daily standing up for and acting upon the things that you know are honorable.

The Sailor's Creed
I am a United States Sailor.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment.
I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

The Navy Values
Honor: "I will bear true faith and allegiance ..." Accordingly, we will: Conduct ourselves in the highest ethical manner in all relationships with peers, superiors and subordinates; Be honest and truthful in our dealings with each other, and with those outside the Navy; Be willing to make honest recommendations and accept those of junior personnel; Encourage new ideas and deliver the bad news, even when it is unpopular; Abide by an uncompromising code of integrity, taking responsibility for our actions and keeping our word; Fulfill or exceed our legal and ethical responsibilities in our public and personal lives twenty-four hours a day. Illegal or improper behavior or even the appearance of such behavior will not be tolerated. We are accountable for our professional and personal behavior. We will be mindful of the privilege to serve our fellow Americans.

Courage: "I will support and defend ..." Accordingly, we will have: courage to meet the demands of our profession and the mission when it is hazardous, demanding, or otherwise difficult; Make decisions in the best interest of the navy and the nation, without regard to personal consequences; Meet these challenges while adhering to a higher standard of personal conduct and decency; Be loyal to our nation, ensuring the resources entrusted to us are used in an honest, careful, and efficient way. Courage is the value that gives us the moral and mental strength to do what is right, even in the face of personal or professional adversity.

Commitment: "I will obey the orders ..." Accordingly, we will: Demand respect up and down the chain of command; Care for the safety, professional, personal and spiritual well-being of our people; Show respect toward all people without regard to race, religion, or gender; Treat each individual with human dignity; Be committed to positive change and constant improvement; Exhibit the highest degree of moral character, technical excellence, quality and competence in what we have been trained to do. The day-to-day duty of every Navy man and woman is to work together as a team to improve the quality of our work, our people and ourselves.

Now I can't attest to what the Marines and Airmen have. I can Google it but they can explain it better. Hopefully one of them will post here too.

The ENTIRE Military learns and follows the "Code of Conduct"

(1) I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense

(2) I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never
surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to
resist

(3) If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will
make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

(4) If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners.
I will give no information or take part in any action which might be
harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will
obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me, and will back them up in
every way

(5) When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give
only my name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering
further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written
statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

(6) I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom,
responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my
country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

Here is a link for a better explination of the CoC.
THE CoC at About.com

I was a Soldier and wife a Sailor. We both no longer support the wars, but we both WHOLLY support the Military.

I hope maybe some of you have learned something about what Military personnel learn and actually do.

Thank you for your time.

I liked that post.

Its easy for people like me who are anti-war to demonize the brave people who risk their lives in the name of their country.

The people that need to be demonized are the evil politicians that send guys like you to die while they hide away with their banker and corporatist friends.

Its a shame posts like this dont zoom to the top of the active thread list. ATS wastes alot of time on bs while awesome posts like dont get the attention they deserve.

If some jerk like me calls you a merc on ATS in the future I would send them to this thread.

Thanks for posting hey

Politicians hide themselves away.They only started the war.

reply to post by thesungod

Nice.

Remember, war is what happens when politicians fail to do their job.

reply to post by Germanicus


We had our spat and said our apologizes.

I'm glad to know and chat with people like you.

Marine Corps MOS List
Air Force AFSC List

Here are the lists of the two branches I have served/serve currently with.

In the Corps I was Primary 0651/Secondary 0621.
In the Air Force I'm a 2T2.

From communications to air transport. The majority of the armed forces are NOT in combat arms jobs. That's probably 25% of the military, as correlating with what the OP said.

I spent my first few years in the Corps doing a lot of community relations with other countries.

Let's see, where to start. Things I've done in my first three years of service:

Volunteered for community relations with the natives in Okinawa, Japan.
Volunteered for community relations with the natives in The Philippines.
Volunteered for community relations with the natives in Thailand.
Helped build a school in The Philippines.
Helped build a church in The Philippines.
Provided support for a clinic set up to aid the natives in The Philippines.
Provided support for a clinic set up to aid the natives in Thailand.
Provided support for a clinic set up to aid the natives in Cambodia.
Provided support for a clinic set up to aid the natives in Indonesia.
Handed out food and water to children in The Philippines.
Handed out food and water to children in Thailand.
Helped in aiding Burma(Myanmar) during the natural disaster that hit which entailed hours of working to put food on pallets and help make water which every carrier is able to do.

I've spent hours playing with children from other countries, giving them memories they'll never forget. I've actually had kids who are older now find me on Facebook and message me thanking me for the day that I was there and played with them.

As you can see, I've done nothing but good things in my military career. A good 75+%, again correlating with the OP, of the military has probably had the same career I have. Do some research and understand that the military is MUCH more than a force for death and destruction.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


Even as Combat Arms, I've done some of those things. Some of those Iraqi kids are so good at Soccer it's crazy. They could shame some of those "foot ball" pros I saw at the Confederations Cup in 2005.

Thanks for your contribution to the post man.

Originally posted by thesungod
reply to post by Germanicus

 

We had our spat and said our apologizes.

I'm glad to know and chat with people like you.

Same here. You are my kinda guy,I can tell I could have a fist fight with you over something we disagree on and win or lose,you would be cool the next day. Everyone should be like that.

And it was all my bad.

Thanks again for posting the thread

Bump.

Originally posted by Germanicus
I liked that post.
Its a shame posts like this dont zoom to the top of the active thread list. ATS wastes alot of time on bs while awesome posts like dont get the attention they deserve.
If some jerk like me calls you a merc on ATS in the future I would send them to this thread.
Thanks for posting hey

edit on 10-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

He was right....this SHOULD be read more often so I'm bumping!!
(Navy Medical here! )

reply to post by SmokeyDawn


Thanks for the bump and the read!

for being a Corpsman, errr, woman. Yanno what I mean.

Originally posted by beezzer

Remember, war is what happens when politicians fail to do their job.

Actually I would say it's the opposite mate. Wars are deliberate, not the result of mistakes. Politicians working for the interest of capitalists.

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes....

Written by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC, Retired

reply to post by ANOK


MG Bulter was writing about war in a time when we still took every resource our enemies had after we whipped them into submission.

Sorta like tribute.

We don't really do that anymore. I mean if we did that and Iraq was all about the oil, then why is gasoline...

Current Avg. $3.843 $3.983 $4.124 $4.116 $3.523

Source

Don't even get me started on rare earth metals and big pharma propaganda.

reply to post by thesungod


War is all about making money, always has been always will be. It costs the workers, not the capitalist owners who benefit from it. Do you really think it's about saving us from terrorist 'they' created in the first place?

Of the 30 members of the Defense Policy Board, the government-appointed group that advises the Pentagon, at least nine have ties to companies that have won more than $76 billion in defense contracts in 2001 and 2002. Four members are registered lobbyists, one of whom represents two of the three largest defense contractors...

Advisors of Influence: Nine Members of the Defense Policy Board Have Ties to Defense Contractors

Halliburton, the company formerly run by the US vice-president, Dick Cheney, has been granted a far broader role in Iraq than previously disclosed and is already operating oilfields in the country, the US army admitted yesterday...

Cheney oil firm widens Iraq role

WASHINGTON — In February, the Defense Policy Board, a group of outside advisors to the Pentagon, got a classified presentation from the super-secret Defense Intelligence Agency on crises in North Korea and Iraq.

Three weeks later, the then-chairman of the board, Richard N. Perle, offered a briefing of his own at an investment seminar on ways to profit from possible conflicts with both countries....

Consulting and Policy Overlap

Bush ally set to profit from the war on terror

Lunch With the Chairman Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?

www.warprofiteers.com...

In early 2005 CIA officials told the Washington Post that at least 50 percent of its estimated $40 billion budget for that year would go to private contractors, an astonishing figure that suggests that concerns raised about outsourcing intelligence have barely registered at the policymaking levels...

...The San Francisco-based construction and engineering giant received one of the largest no-bid contracts -- worth $2.4 billion -- to help coordinate and rebuild a large part of Iraq's infrastructure. But the company's reconstruction failures range from shoddy school repairs to failing to finish a large hospital in Basra on time and within budget...

...The General Accounting Office (GAO) estimates 48,000 private security and military contractors (PMCs) are stationed in Iraq. The Pentagon's insistence on keeping a lid on military force requirements (thereby avoiding the need for a draft) is one reason for that astronomical growth, which has boosted the fortunes of the "corporate warriors" so much that observers project the industry will be a $200 billion per year business by 2010....

...In March, Custer Battles became the first Iraq occupation contractor to be found guilty of fraud. A jury ordered the company to pay more than $10 million in damages for 37 counts of fraud, including false billing. In August, however, the judge in the case dismissed most of the charges on a technicality, ruling that since the Coalition Provisional Authority was not strictly part of the U.S. government, there is no basis for the claim under U.S. law. Custer Battles' attorney Robert Rhoad says the company's owners were "ecstatic" about the decision, adding that "there simply was no evidence of fraud or an intent to defraud."...

...Most of the big defense contractors have done well as a result of the war on terror. The five-year chart for Lockheed Martin, for instance, reveals that the company's stock has doubled in value since 2001...Yet The Washington Post reported in July that industry analysts agree that of the large defense contractors, the one that has received the most direct benefit from the war in Iraq is General Dynamics...In July, the Post reported that the company's profits have tripled since 9/11...

...Incorporated shortly after the war began, Nour has received $400 million in Iraq contracts, including an $80 million contract to provide oil pipeline security that critics say came through the assistance of Ahmed Chalabi, Iraq's No. 1 opportunist, who was influential in dragging the United States into the current quagmire with misleading assertions about WMDs....

...Three years into the occupation, after an evolving series of deft legal maneuvers and manipulative political appointments, the oil giants' takeover of Iraq's oil is nearly complete....

The 10 Most Brazen War Profiteers

War is about capitalist interests, period.

reply to post by ANOK


Okay then, if it's all about money then why is the US national debt... what 16 trillion now?

I'll direct you here for some modern info on the topic.

Besides this thread is about What Military personnel are and are not. Not war profiteering. Start a thread for it if you want to discuss that.

ETA: As a sidebar, liked your 9/11 threads

Bumping my own old thread.