Fat people are fat. Enough of the euphemisms (Rev Dr Peter Mullen), page 1

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Topic started on 9-5-2012 @ 12:22 PM by ollncasino

The Rev Dr Peter Mullen is a priest of the Church of England.

In the UK, doctors are being told no longer to refer to their patients as obese.

Rev Dr Peter Mullen

"The euphemism rules:-

I find that most phrases we hear have to be translated into ordinary English.

So for example, “A long battle with alcohol” really means “Has lain on the sofa for years watching football and pouring cans of lager down his neck.”

What are actually bad habits are being objectified as diseases. So no one merely drinks too much or gets smashed on illegal drugs. Only he “has alcohol issues and a drug problem.” But it’s not the booze or the drugs that are the problem. The drunk or the abuser is the problem.

Generally we are not allowed to claim that people are responsible for their behaviour, but “suffering from” some dreadful malady inflicted upon them by immutable external causes.

However, there are notable exceptions to this rule – the principal one being smoking. No smoker is ever described as someone who “is vulnerable to nicotine.”

No, because the smoker is disapproved by our politically correct culture, we are allowed to describe his habit as “filthy” and encouraged to regard the poor devil as a pariah."

The Telegraph

He makes a fair point. Why are alcoholics and overweight people protected by politically correct euphemisms but smokers are not?

Why has political correctness declared war on the smoker but not the alcoholic who causes much more damage to the people around him?

Why does political correctness encourage people to not take responsibility for their own addictions (food or alcohol) but condemns smokers as “filthy”?

reply posted on 9-5-2012 @ 12:31 PM by snowspirit

I always thought that "obese" sounded fatter than fat.
Fat sounds like you're overweight, sometimes not all over. Like a fat belly.

Obese, sounds like you're billowing out all over the place. Extra extra fat.
Morbidly obese sounds really disgusting, uncontainable within clothing

I guess it's all about perception....

reply posted on 9-5-2012 @ 12:34 PM by AnIntellectualRedneck

I would argue that drug addicts are a horse of a different color than smokers or alcoholics, but that's beside the point.

I get the point, but I think that the PC thing for obese people stems from the idea that calling them "fat" only serves to reinforce the behavior. I also think it stems from the habit of many people to label somebody as "fat" who isn't really overweight at all, but they get labeled as such because they don't look like magazine models.

reply posted on 9-5-2012 @ 12:39 PM by Germanicus

I agree.

The smoker gets told they must pay a ludicrous tax on a packet of cigarettes. Then the smoker is told that they are a strain on the health system and a burden to society. I have to listen to this crap from Australia's former Health Minister Nicola Roxon.

Nicola Roxon has a fat ass. Nicola Roxon should put a massive tax on whatever is growing that fat ass because her fat ass and many others will soon be a strain on the health system.

The smoker is the punching bag of society.

reply posted on 9-5-2012 @ 03:39 PM by Hecate666

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
I would argue that drug addicts are a horse of a different color than smokers or alcoholics, but that's beside the point.

But smokers and alcoholics ARE drug users. Same as people who take asthma spray and painkillers.
If you mean 'nasty' drugs, where horrid people have needles hanging out of their armpits or those who lie in gutters smoking crack with prostitutes, please distinguish. Especially when I consider alcohol far more dangerous than weed.

reply posted on 15-5-2012 @ 04:02 PM by thepixelgarden

i agree that smokers are the punching bags of society. I haven't smoked in over a decade, but man I want to light up when our culture starts shoving anti-smoking propaganda down my throat.

Also, "overweight people protected by politically correct euphemisms"? Hahahahaha! Yeah, no. Believe it or not, "Morbidly obese" is not as flattering as it may sound.

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 09:33 AM by grainofsand

I also despair with the politically correct terms used to describe fat people, and have much sympathy for the comments in the OP.
Some years ago I was chatting to a man with a guide dog who was blind from birth. We were talking about the term 'visually impaired' and even he said modern PC language winds him up a bit, his words were:

I'm not visually impaired, I can't see a thing, I'm ****ing blind, simple

People who take more energy in than they use end up fat, simple.

I don't care a rats arse if someone is fat, doesn't affect me in any way apart from feelings of revulsion while people watching, but when they try to make out it's a disease that deserves sympathy they lose all support from me.
My occasional visits for McJunk burgers usually result in feelings of disgust as I look around at the fat families gorging their fat faces with high fat foot. Oh, those poor innocent people suffering a 'disease' which is nothing more than a lack of willpower.

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 09:38 AM by nixie_nox

I don't expect a reverand to understand actual medical conditions.

There are genes that dictate addictive behavior. And alcoholism and addiction are the symptom of a far deeper mental issue.
Same with obesity, which doesn't have a singular cause. Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues, can cause fat problems.

They all, including smoking, can be caused by peer or family influence.

To simply say that a person is not being responsible is a cop out to ignore what are very serious problems, and to be abel to lightly dismiss them. Instead of actually taking the time to understand them.

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 10:22 AM by grainofsand

Originally posted by nixie_noxMetabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues, can cause fat problems.

Yep, but eating more energy than you use makes you fat, simple.
Check this obesity list by countries: www.nationmaster.com...
USA - 30.6% obese
Japan - 3.2% obese

It's down to food and activity choices, with maybe a tiny percentage of fat people who suffer from these terrible Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues you mention.
Or are you saying that the land of the rising sun is a magical place where Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues somehow do not afflict their citizens as much?

We all know the truth, eat crappy high fat food and sit around watching Jerry Springer/Jeremy Kyle all day on TV you will end up fat.

Carry on breaking your heart for the lazy people who eat too much, but ask yourself why the Japanese do not suffer from these Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues, you blame as the cause of fat people. I'll stick with the opinion that too much crappy food and poor life choices are to blame - take some responsibility fat people, for most of you it's all your own fault.

*Edit
www.nhs.uk...

Most cases of obesity are caused by eating too much and moving too little. If you consume high amounts of energy from your diet but do not burn off the energy through exercise and physical activity, the surplus energy will be turned into fat.

I know fat people don't like the hard facts but thats kind of tough and irrelevant to the debate.

edit on 29-12-2012 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 12:21 PM by marvinthemartian

reply to post by grainofsand

Well said sir.

I remember when i was a kid there was hardly any really fat people around, yes there was the odd overweight
person but what we now call morbidly obese ( or really really fat) people were as rare as rocking horse droppings.

Do you think it's a coincidence that obesity levels have risen as the availability of high calorific and fatty fast food
has increased?

Yes there is a small percentage of people with medical/mental issues which can cause them to gain weight,
but they are the exception not the rule.

At the end of the day use some willpower to eat less and move more.

edit on 29-12-2012 by marvinthemartian because: oops dyslexic

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 12:50 PM by grainofsand

reply to post by marvinthemartian

Totally agreed.
There were hardly any fat kids when I was at school in the 80's, perhaps one or two in each school year.
Maybe those would be the classic example of fat people who deserve sympathy, you know, like a previous poster insisted suffer from "Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues".

We ate square meals walked to school and played outside - We used the energy we consumed - simple.

I get so frustrated by the blatant lies fat sympathisers use to blame everything other than lack of willpower and laziness for the vast majority of fat people.
Our society has not suddenly become the victim of "Metabolism, medications, thyroid issues, other health issues" - we just stopped being as active as we used to and fast food joints became more prevalent in the high streets.

Here's a map of the fattest nations around the world, kind of speaks for itself really:
www.iaso.org...

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 01:02 PM by nixie_nox

reply to post by grainofsand

That is a lame excuse so people can slander fat people, like you are trying to do.

Funny how everyone has different diseases, different immune systems, different skin, height, fertility, color, some go bald, some don't, some have lazy eyes, some don't.

One person will never be sick a day in their life, yet another will have a cold every month.

yet every single person's metabolism magically works the same and it is just calories in, calories out.

You can't do things like compare Americans to Japanese. First off, the Japanese have the same genetics. Despite diet, they have always lived longer. That is genetics.

Because they have the same ancestral genetics, and still eat the same diet that their ancestors ate, they have less issues with weight.

But Europeans can't eat rice, where it is nutrition for Asians, it causes a sugar spike in Europeans and does more harm than good.
The Japanese also don't have the same health system we do either. There are too many differences to make a simple comparison.
Americans also have much higher stress levels, and stress causes weight gain.

Americans have such a mess of genes, that most don't even have a clear picture of where they come from.

There is a theory that some of the weight problems maybe caused by ethnic eating. You should only be eating what your ancestors ate and had access too. I am talking thousands of years back.

So Europeans should not be eating bananas, mangos, kiwi, etc. The Irish shouldn't even be eating potatoes. Neither should most Americans. Potatoes are a South American food.

Native Americans didn't start having a diabetes problem till they had access to European alcohol and food. It started with teh introduction of white flower.

So no, it is not as simple as calories in/out and burning energy.

edit on 29-12-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 01:03 PM by nixie_nox

reply to post by grainofsand

I am sure that you were an astounding scientist when you were in grade school, and could make accurate calculations on the health of the students around you.

reply posted on 29-12-2012 @ 01:52 PM by grainofsand

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by grainofsand

That is a lame excuse so people can slander fat people, like you are trying to do.

Nope, discussing facts accepted by science - if one eats too much and does too little they get fat - no slander there, cold truth.

Funny how everyone has different diseases, different immune systems, different skin, height, fertility, color, some go bald, some don't, some have lazy eyes, some don't.

One person will never be sick a day in their life, yet another will have a cold every month.

yet every single person's metabolism magically works the same and it is just calories in, calories out.

You can't do things like compare Americans to Japanese. First off, the Japanese have the same genetics. Despite diet, they have always lived longer. That is genetics.

Because they have the same ancestral genetics, and still eat the same diet that their ancestors ate, they have less issues with weight.

Yep, all down to food consumption choices, the responsibility of the person eating.

But Europeans can't eat rice, where it is nutrition for Asians, it causes a sugar spike in Europeans and does more harm than good.

Wild claims there, would love to see the alleged 'research' into how eating a balanced diet including rice causes fat Europeans. Life/food choices again.

The Japanese also don't have the same health system we do either. There are too many differences to make a simple comparison.

They don't eat as much trashy food as UK & US citizens do either - they choose healthier options as a society.

Americans also have much higher stress levels, and stress causes weight gain.

Nope, weight gain isn't caused by stress, just from the comfort munching of crappy food to feel better. Again, a life choice.

Americans have such a mess of genes, that most don't even have a clear picture of where they come from.

There is a theory that some of the weight problems maybe caused by ethnic eating. You should only be eating what your ancestors ate and had access too. I am talking thousands of years back.

So Europeans should not be eating bananas, mangos, kiwi, etc. The Irish shouldn't even be eating potatoes. Neither should most Americans. Potatoes are a South American food.

Native Americans didn't start having a diabetes problem till they had access to European alcohol and food. It started with teh introduction of white flower.

More wild assertions, perhaps provide some reputable source and I may be tempted to address them.

So no, it is not as simple as calories in/out and burning energy.
edit on 29-12-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

Yes it is in the vast majority of cases, regardless of any sympathetic apologist sentiments one may hold.
...pick an impoverished African state and ask a random starving person.

I am sure that you were an astounding scientist when you were in grade school, and could make accurate calculations on the health of the students around you.

I was rather good at the sciences at school but didn't need an A in Biology to see the fat kids.
I don't need a degree in sociology to make the assertion that vastly more kids are fat these days...again, just a pair of eyes, oh and for evidence, Google is your friend, even if you don't believe what you find out.

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