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'Alien Abduction' Research Suggests Episodes Are Actually Lucid Dreams

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posted on May, 9 2012 @ 04:10 PM

The Type A abduction (no physical evidence)

Floating through walls does not happen in normal physical reality, and a medical procedure during a dream does not leave physical aftereffects. Yet, both phenomena are said to occur during some abductions. What kind of reality can accommodate these seemingly impossible events?

The Type A abduction by itself might be attributable to a vivid dream if it were not for the fact that so many people appear to have had the same basic experience. The explanation quickly expands to include the Jungian concept of the collective unconscious, the source of archetypal imagery appearing in different people's dreams. Consistent with this idea is a more active description of reality that comes primarily from shamanic traditions practiced for thousands of years in many places around the world. For a shaman, reality consists of the physical world we know, as well as a spirit domain accessible via altered states of consciousness. Surprisingly, the imagery of the abduction experience is not unique in that it appears in this spirit world as well.

Several books have been written describing this more comprehensive understanding of reality. Of particular interest is Graham Hancock’s book, Supernatural, David Pinchbeck’s book, Breaking Open the Head: A Psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary Shamanism, and Rick Strassman’s book, '___': The Spirit Molecule. These authors describe drug-induced altered states where powerful archetypal imagery exists in a world far removed from normal reality. Strange beings are encountered with the ability to behave independently of the experiencer. The experiences are said to be as real as any in the physical world, and range from fearful violence to the mystical.

Strassman describes medical research into the effects of dimethyltryptamine ('___'), a fast-acting, endogenous psychedelic molecule. The subjective experiences of his research volunteers are related in detail in his book. Strassman emphasizes the importance of “set and setting” on the subjective effects of the drug. Nearly all volunteers commented on powerful vibrations or pulses of energy accompanying the onset of the drug, followed by a loss of body awareness and time perception. One type of experience was floating or flying through exotic spaces, a feeling of oneness with the universe and of love, joy, and acceptance. Another volunteer found himself on an operating room table with tubes attached to his body, but there were positive feelings toward humans in the room. Another found himself accompanied by a vaguely humanoid being who was interested in him and his fear. Another was surrounded by insectoid beings who consumed his feelings of love and surrender. Strassman commented on the strong similarity between '___' session reports and the scenarios reported by alien abductees.

'___' is also a component of potions used by indigenous peoples in some parts of the world to induce altered states of consciousness. Hancock and Pinchbeck describe their own personal journeys into the spirit world after drinking such potions. According to Hancock, an experienced shaman is master of all he encounters in the spirit world. He will have his own “spirit animals” who act as his guide and protector, and assist him in achieving his desired objectives. It appears that proper assistance in the spirit world can improve the quality of the experience.

With a sufficiently high dose of the potion, the typical user is propelled rapidly into a world of stunning visual effects followed by interactions with various strange beings. Hancock describes some as reptilian in appearance, while some are half human and half animal. Beings were encountered who dismembered the body and put it back together again with some alterations. Or, the body was impaled by sharp objects. Pinchbeck describes entities as “porcupine-quilled, tusked, multi-tongued, amoebic, but even those words are only approximations of entities”. Of particular interest to us, a few of the beings encountered by both Hancock and some of Strassman’s volunteers closely resemble the aliens described by abductees. Hancock’s interactions with these beings suggested the possibility of imminent abduction into a metal spaceship much like a flying saucer. He describes one entity as an insect-like humanoid with a heart shaped face and slits for a nose and a mouth. The entity is accompanied by several smaller, less intelligent beings. Besides the similarity to the alien abducters, the seeming hierarchical social structure is typical of that observed during the abductions.

The '___' experience and the Type A abduction experience seem to have a number of elements in common. Perhaps the Type A abduction is a direct result of excess '___' release. '___' is an endogenous chemical and, according to Strassman, is part of the chemistry of the pineal gland situated just below the brain. It is conceivable that, under certain conditions, '___' production is accelerated and it is released into the brain environment. The result could be an abduction experience in the spirit world involving some of the beings described by Hancock and others. John Mack, a psychiatrist who studied the abduction phenomenon, learned that many abductions from people's homes take place in the early morning hours. Strassman notes that this is when the pineal gland is most active. Perhaps early morning '___' production facilitates alien encounters in predisposed individuals.

The Type B abduction (physical evidence, nicks, cuts, bruises)

The concept of experiencing a separate spirit world by the appropriate adjustment of brain chemistry seems sufficient to explain the Type A abduction experience. So far, we have assumed that the physical or its proxy intrudes into the spirit world, and that the elements of the spirit world return no further into the physical world than the impact on the viewer’s memory. Is it possible to extend this concept to also account for the additional effects that define the Type B abduction experience? In particular, could the physical aftereffects of the medical procedures be caused by the events experienced in the spirit world? Also, could it be possible to experience events in the spirit world jointly with another person?

According to Pinchbeck and Hancock, the spirit world is a place where new things can be learned. Further, it appears to be a reality where different people can simultaneously experience the same thing. For example, Pinchbeck entered this space with the assistance of a shaman and two elders, and felt the company of the others. Two of his acquaintances shared a vision of being observed by a small owl. Three others watched dolphins swimming. Therefore, if the abduction experience also occurs in the spirit world, two people abducted together should be able to independently describe the same events afterwards.

Pinchbeck believes that activity in the spirit world can directly impact the physical world. He gives the example of a shaman emerging from a long trance holding a new seed or plant needed for healing others. This suggests that consciousness operating in the spirit world can cause changes in the physical world. In his words, “The energy of conscious or unconscious beliefs and the willpower of human beings may create actual physical manifestations that take on a level of independence from any individual consciousness”. Therefore, we should allow for the possibility that the abductees’ implants and nicks on the skin are side effects of the activities in the spirit world. That is, they may emerge into the physical world prior to the return to a normal state of consciousness.

Also we cannot rule out the fact that some physical evidence is just the result of a rough sleep during one of these experiences.

Thank you for your time and please consider this information if you ever have this kind of experience.

ps: Also in October the movie/documentary of Dr. Rick Strassman's work will be coming out which should be very interesting

pss: please no short dismissive posts in rebuttal, I have put the time and effort to present this, so the least you could do is provide me with some contradictory evidence if you don't not believe it.
edit on 9/5/12 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 07:20 PM

Originally posted by King Loki
I also wrote a thread about this ages ago when we used to have the old "alt substances" forums here .... ill repost it in here

I see a lot of people on these forums talking about being abducted by aliens and such, but most of you do not understand what is actually happening when you think you are being physically abducted, the real truth is that physically your still in your bed fast asleep. I will explain more below:


I think this is a good answer (but I didn't think we were allowed to suggest things like this). Substances like '___' show just how easy it is to induce absolutely alien experiences on people with only a tiny dosage of a naturally (both inside the nervous system and in nature) occurring molecule. Nothing that any abductee experiences is any weirder than what people come out with on a daily basis with these types of substance.

I think maybe people are seeing something fundamental about their own perceptual abilities when they imagine an 'alien grey'. That's why it's so spooky. Like a loose tooth you can't leave alone. Probably why the propagandists like to use this type of imagery. it's inherently 'trippy'?

"She has many epiphanies. Not all of them are shy, and not all of them are "she." One person encountered the Ally as a giant(an immeasurably ancient giant wearing a belt of human skulls. The giant looked directly at this person. The giant wanted to know why he had been summoned. The giant did not want a trivial answer."
edit on 9-5-2012 by yampa because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 07:48 PM
Is abduction so terrifying that '___' is produced as an escape from the experience? Is it neccessary for them to use it against us as means of compliance?Is that the flip side of this coin?

I mentioned my fear of being awake when they arrived. Wide awake,reading a book or watching TV . They enter the room,just appear. I am almost hysterical. The dog is frozen,the cat is frozen. Like suspended in mid air.At first I grab at my spouses hand to try and hold on because in a few seconds I am getting yanked out of my bed from some light. Then, I can't move but can see at first everything around me.

Then one of them gets into my face and now I can't open my eyes anymore but I am being slid off my bed.I am freezing. I feel like I'm dreaming,its in and out but the entire time I'm kept aware that I'm not alone and whatever is going on hurts. I am terrified still! In the later years fear was not as strong except for the pleading they not involve my kids.This is the worst part of being an abductee with children,especially daughters.

I am returned to my bed with sharp head and ear pain. Sometimes I used to get sick afterwards. My balance is off if I try to stand very long.

Was my fear keeping them in this dimension or me in theirs? Any other abductees have a theory to share on this?

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 07:54 PM
Think of it more as Alien Inception
edit on 9-5-2012 by OGOldGreg because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 08:22 PM
reply to post by King Loki

'___' is just a gateway to the spirit realm, accessible with out the substance.
But i think you are fair on the mark with you claims anyway.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 08:42 PM
Astral projection / abduction is not the same as a lucid dream.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 08:49 PM
Lucid Dreams/Sleep Paralysis...

IMHO, Just sounds too convenient. Not saying I believe that they are really abductions from ETs, but I do believe theres something more supernatural occuring.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:30 PM
Wow all these posts attempting to show me that science is wrong and that alien abductions do exist....but not one of you has even offered any proof.

You bring in John Mack, yet never once mention the other Harvard professors who have studied it and concluded it is all in the mind.

Susan Clancy, Ph.D and Richard McNally, Ph. D (both work at Harvard)
Alien abduction claims explained

But they do have "a tendency to fantasize and to hold unusual beliefs and ideas. They believe not only in alien abductions, but also in things like UFOs, ESP, astrology, tarot, channeling, auras, and crystal therapy. They also have in common a rash of disturbing experiences for which they are seeking an explanation. For them, alien abduction is the best fit."

John E. Macks research in question
Macks research questioned

You accept one Harvard professor's work but not two other professors who are also from Harvard who have come to different conclusions? Why?

Unity_99 I will never take you seriously...since you yell at stars for being alien ships...not exactly the sanest person for the alien abduction theorists to have on their side.

Time and time again the research is against you are living in a world full of make believe. Maybe if you listened to real life...your delusions can be fixed.

posted on May, 9 2012 @ 11:47 PM
Get real, no one is left with proof, they're left with testimony if they remember anything. Period. If they had proof that would be taken in an instance and they may disappear themselves.

Its such a strange circular argument "skeptics" use, they want proof, but its highly classified, so no proof is allowed, and our own security levels are nothing, compared to cosmic ones.


Nineteen former pilots and government officials have asked the United States to intensify investigations of unidentified flying objects, calling the reports a national security concern that shouldn’t be casually dismissed.

The group is hard to dismiss as a bunch of stereotypical UFO crackpots. Many of them are ex-military; several claim to have personally encountered UFOs.

Fife Symington, an ex-air force pilot and former Arizona goveror who claims to have seen a UFO in 1997, told Agence-France Press that "We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms."

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:42 AM
reply to post by Unity_99

So you have sunk to the level of using the Holy Grail of excuses. We don't have proof because they are hiding it or they will kill those that attempt to show us proof....

Isn't it weird that the government has not killed anyone in order to hide proof , has blocked YouTube from broadcasting supposed UFO vids, has shut down websites in order to suppress anything or has actually done anything to stop the spread of these stories?

I am telling you the government has done a horrible job in hiding things from the public...

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 01:34 AM

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by Unity_99

So you have sunk to the level of using the Holy Grail of excuses. We don't have proof because they are hiding it or they will kill those that attempt to show us proof....

Isn't it weird that the government has not killed anyone in order to hide proof , has blocked YouTube from broadcasting supposed UFO vids, has shut down websites in order to suppress anything or has actually done anything to stop the spread of these stories?

I am telling you the government has done a horrible job in hiding things from the public...

If you were colour-blind red, what 'evidence' but your own experience of the wavelength, 'warmth', richness of red, could convince you of its existence?

Disinformation/Misinformation has become almost an art form...'Organisations' able to allocate insane 'budgets' to the study of such things - would no doubt use it...and you would be none the wiser! In fact, writing a novel plot/screenplay is one of the easiest of the tasks to achieve. Co-ordinating targeted 'study' groups associated with the relevant misinformation is somewhat harder to achieve...yet, it can and has and continues to be done...right under your nose!

If you can do it to a fellow human, doing it to larger groups is the process enlarged, and what with the internet, cable TV from all 'round the world, Utube, phoney UFO sites (injected with just the right amount of misinformation) is eminently possible under the circumstances, that quite a large con job is going on...and has been for a while...and being that, the story was most likely initiated a long time ago, you as well as us all, is really only part of the 'plot'...


posted on May, 10 2012 @ 06:06 AM
If its lucid dreaming what about the weird scars and marks some people are left with after their wild experience?

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:02 AM
The scientists are almost right.

But the problem is that these are astral encounters with nonphysical astral beings.

So instead of lucid dream, I would say OBE/astral projection.

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 09:33 AM
reply to post by kerazeesicko
It's more like a belief system than a lucid dream. The aliens do exist, but on the non-physical realms and they are really just us in the past or the future. People who feel they've been abducted are in agreement at some level to experience this ... they have connections to fears that bring about these 'experiences'. They draw it to themselves ....

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 10:20 AM
The more and more I think about this the more and more I am leaning towards '___' activity in the brain. '___' appears to be related to the dreaming process and if one is "awake" while a decent amount of '___' Is flowing through the brain, you will hallucinate and hallucinate hard (for those that have tampered with hallucinogens).

I strongly suggest "'___': The Spirit Molecule" and in it he even documents people in labs undergoing '___' tests that claim to have been visited by aliens (grey type) while being in the hospital bed under the supervision of the doctor.'___'-The-spirit-molecule.pdf

And apparently it is now a movie ... so ... that is what I will be doing tonight.

ETA- Sorry Loki. Didnt see your post before I did mine. Take this as an agreement to what Loki just posted about.

edit on 10-5-2012 by underduck because: apology to Loki

edit on 10-5-2012 by underduck because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 10:46 AM
The following text below is about the reaction Mack got from his peers at Harvard , there are also others of good academical standing who where not critical of Macks investigation's and methodological errors.It is hardly surprising that some have attacked his findings and methods of investigation's due to the very nature of what he was investigating, they had to attack due to the fact that Mack was regarded as a very respectable academic and now he was paying a very real and serious attention to a subject that science regards as non sense.This also happened to the late atmospheric and meteorologist physicist Dr James E MacDonald , he produced a very good paper entitled ,"SCIENCE IN DEFAULT ,20 YEARS OF INADEQUATE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATIONS INTO UFOs.

What interests me is that in the case of Macks investigation's and the nature of what he was investigating more often than not is that if we have respectable academical individuals at different opinions in this case Macks conclusions then those academics who "attack" people like Mack are preferred and cited by those who have the opinion that if something cannot be "validated" or "proven" by what science currently understands,(or crudely put, if it cannot be produced in a test tube), they are preferable to Mack.Its also interesting that the time scale for those attacking Macks work ethics or his investigation clinical approaches and methods was rather long , its a pity they new he would not be able to defend himself due to his sad death.

A scientific intuition/organisation was set up and is still active regarding Macks work and the new perceptions he brought to the human mind set or mental realities that he perceived were starting to awaken by unknown forces be they inter-dimensional/astral or advanced intelligences from another parallel universe.The current perceptions or discoveries in the fields of quantum physics,quantum mechanics and astro- physics is the start i feel of yet more to come revelations of not only our real place in this physical vibration we call earth but as yet of undiscovered dimensions and other universes

.As Mack said "no one knows the answers yet" and those who would have us believe that they have ALL the answers are the ones to avoid.We could be dealing with a very intelligent and advanced unknown intelligence that knows us very well and who are in the process of an "interact observational" or "scientific agenda" with our species,now if we were them engaging in any of the two would we want any "proof" or "evidence" of our existence jeopardising our agendas, this could be why we have no conclusive scientific evidence from those claiming abduction because none will ever be allowed to manifest in our reality we call the physical. Now what was Mack perceiving when he said the following statement below.Put that statement into the context of a genuine unknown intelligence and it makes perfect sense.

What if the alien encounter phenomenon were subtle in the sense that it may manifest in the physical world but derives from a source which by its very nature could not provide the kind of hard evidence that would satisfy skeptics for whom reality is limited to the material? What if we were to acknowledge that the phenomenon is beyond our present framework of knowledge? Dr John Mack-MD.

Investigation In May 1994, the Dean of Harvard Medical School, Daniel C. Tosteson, appointed a committee of peers to confidentially review Mack's clinical care and clinical investigation of the people who had shared their alien encounters with him (some of their cases were written of in Mack's 1994 book Abduction). In the same BBC article cited above, Angela Hind wrote, "It was the first time in Harvard's history that a tenured professor was subjected to such an investigation." Mack described the investigation as "Kafkaesque": he never quite knew the status of the ongoing investigation, and the nature of his critics' complaints were not revealed to Mack until the committee had prepared a draft report eight months into the process.

Because the committee was not a disciplinary committee, it was not governed by any established rules of procedure; the presentation of a defense was therefore difficult and costly for Mack. Upon the public revelation of the existence of the committee (inadvertently revealed during the solicitation of witnesses for Mack's defense, ten months into the process), questions arose from the academic community (including Harvard Professor of Law Alan Dershowitz) regarding the validity of an investigation of a tenured professor who was not suspected of ethics violations or professional misconduct. Concluding the fourteen-month investigation, Harvard then issued a statement stating that the Dean had "reaffirmed Dr. Mack's academic freedom to study what he wishes and to state his opinions without impediment," concluding "Dr. Mack remains a member in good standing of the Harvard Faculty of Medicine." (Mack was censured in the committee's report for what they believed were methodological errors, but Dean Tosteson took no action based on the committee's assessment.)

He had received legal help from Roderick MacLeish and Daniel P. Sheehan,[6] (of the Pentagon Papers case)[7] and the support of Laurance Rockefeller, who also funded Mack's non-profit organization for four consecutive years at $250,000 per year

edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:04 PM
reply to post by kerazeesicko

As a person who is experienced both with sleep paralysis and lucid dreams I would say this is the most likely explanation as well. Most of the alien abduction cases seem like nothing more than sleep paralysis.

Whatever you fear, expect in that state is what most likely will happen. In old days it was more common to see demons, witches or religious figures instead of aliens.

I also think out of body experiences are nothing more than a lucid dream either, except that the person think they are really leaving their physical body.
edit on 10-5-2012 by juleol because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:10 PM

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
The scientists are almost right.

But the problem is that these are astral encounters with nonphysical astral beings.

So instead of lucid dream, I would say OBE/astral projection.

And I would disagree. I think they are nothing more than a lucid dream. I have had plenty of WILD induced lucid dreams that are exactly like how people describe their OBE experiences. I have the vibrations, sounds that most claim to have, which is nothing more than a side effect from sleep paralysis.
The techniques to induce so called oobes are even nearly identical to WILD technique which is known to often induce sleep paralysis. A person floating out of his/her body is nothing more than a shift to the dreambody once your physical body has been paralyzed.

posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Goosegash
not sure the Hills would've agreed they were sharing the same dream,

They weren't.

Betty was dreaming of Jimmy Durante lookalikes, while Barney was dreaming about an alien he saw on "The Outer Limits."


posted on May, 10 2012 @ 01:00 PM
Who knows. You can look at it from both sides of the coin. Unless you have experienced it imo you don't have a say. Simple.

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