Charles Manson - "nutjob" or something more?

reply to post by Outofcontrol

his mannerisms remind me of GWB to some extent! maybe its just me? He doesn't feel remorse for the people he killed which makes him crazy but in a untamed fox kind of way. Hes not domesticated and wild but clearly aware of it and looks at all of us as domesticated humans to the whim of someone in power and hes right.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Outofcontrol

 

Ok... so from all that was said, everything you could extract was:

Everything you quoted was just as semantically null or purile. There is nothing significant in what he says. It is all self serving nonsense.


When have I said anything about evolution?

And how you date those layers and come up with that stratification? From the types of bones found at different depths"

You apparently know nothing about geological dating methods.

edit on 5/9/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

You're just dismissing him for the kicks. You wont deny hes a living legend tho, and somehow, somewhat he got that legend status - Manson is the kind of name that became timeless - When you hear of Manson its like you're hearing about a distant past, that so evil or so great that broke the chains of time and isnt tied up to a specific date or era. He cant be just a psychopath. You see even presidential assassins have an era, even if you dont know your history, but you know you can always find a right "time" to place them. But the name "Manson" became the stuff of what legends are made - like Frank Sinatra - when you say his name you dont feel like he actually lived in your time - you cant tell he died in 98, that he was alive the same time as you - Sinatra is timeless.

Somehow some people become timeless for whatever reason, and again. the name "Manson" somehow earned that status - and he didnt murder anyone - imagine that we're talking about someone with a body count, and we see 0 ... zero. The man hasnt done anything neither terribly bad or awesomely good to deserve that status, yet he has it! Is there some more to Manson?

What it riddles me is his notoriety even! I always thought great names came either from extreme good to extreme bad... Hitler, Curie etc. The funny thing is that Lee Harvy shot and killed A PRESIDENT and isnt as notorious as charles manson the man who did absolutely nothing besides having orgies and taking too much "sugar".

So Phage, tell me... would you get Charles Manson notoriety if you held some pool parties, with lots of dope, hot women and lots of sex - nobody would even care. You'd be lucky to show up on Opera.

But this man, took lsd, had sex with a harem, that didnt kill anyone in his life, had a cult... that killed a lot of people and that could or COULD not be his influence and that gets him IMMORTALITY?

Phage how could you be so arrogant to completely dismiss a legend? To try to reduce him to nothing... when he has accomplished immortality.

And hes right again, another quote from the "poor charly":

"Im incompetent but thats ok, cause if I was competend that means I would have to do alot. Since Im incompetent I dont have to do much"

Yes... by doing jack he got to live forever! He is the most useless guy in History! He got to be the most competent incompetent I've ever seen! - History book: on- M, Manson, Charlie - The man who became more famous than a pope for doing nothing and well, he may or may not have a psycho-cult that killed people orderded by him and theres no record of he ever killing a single person on the planet; same as: We dont even know why hes famous for"

You simply dismiss a man like this?

(offtopic: come to think of this... he kinds reminds me of george carlin when he says some stuff that he says, like "Ive been with prostitutes and bums. the street is my world. I dont pretend to go uptown and be anything fancy, I can but... I find it more real in the world Im in" - this could have been said by george carlin!)

This guy a genius for being self-aware? He just seems like an old guy who has lost faith in humanity... Manson is nothing special, geez if he came talking to me like that on the street, I wouldn't give him a second look.

Manson is a reflection of the society we live in. Our society was in the process of its descent when Manson came along. Manson smiles because he expected life to be just as it is now.

reply to post by ogbert

Although, I have observed my dog acting mighty guilty at times-but very short lived.

Not to be anal, but a dog's "pang of conscience" is nothing more than a dread of displeasing it's owner, and not a reasoned understanding of the nature of the action he did. Whereas humans - although there are those among us who act out from the same general area which motivates a dog to dread an owner's negative response - recognize a principle beyond the action itself.

Shamanism is a human phenomenon, which prior to rational thought, changed the way people perceived reality. In many ways, this is the essence of art, the beginnings of religion, and the evolution of a species. It's sort of like Kubrick's 2001, where the first humanoid grabs a stick; and, then the others follow.

I pretty much agree. Mircea Eliade wrote a nice book on Shamanism and subtitled it 'ecstatic techniques of ecstasy' which is to say, shamanism, albeit, primitive compared to the more sophisticated esoteric sciences (i.e. Vedanta/Yoga/Tantra, Buddhism, Kabbalah, Sufism, Gnosticism etc) connects the human being to a plane of reality beyond the banal realm of appearance. It's important being aware of this state - but it's equally important, in my opinion, to balance and create a rapprochement between it and the world we human beings live in. The world envisaged by Charles Manson is simply not a nice place: it's a chaotic nightmare governed by 'principles' which have no viable relationship with this world: it is absolutely alien in the truest sense.

I'm always freaked out by the women who will write to him and those who want to get to know him.

Mansion and his gang did a lot of drugs, namely acid. His drug habits contributed a lot to his philosophy, as well as his ability to manipulate and control people.

Q Well, when you first started to live at the ranch, were there any drugs other than acid which were available?

A All different kinds of drugs: Acid, mescaline, psilocybin, and the THC, and STP, stuff like that; all psychedelic drugs, I guess you'd say.

Q Were the drugs that you have just enumerated drugs that Manson usually kept under his control?

A Yes, it would always be in a Baggie and it would be under his control or the girls' control, and the girls' control and his control was the same control. so he would just ask one of the girls to go and put the acid away and then when he wanted it, he'd ask the girls to bring it to him.

Charles Watson Interview

Was the guy a genius? Not really. A shaman? You bet.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by ogbert

 

Although, I have observed my dog acting mighty guilty at times-but very short lived.

Not to be anal, but a dog's "pang of conscience" is nothing more than a dread of displeasing it's owner, and not a reasoned understanding of the nature of the action he did. Whereas humans - although there are those among us who act out from the same general area which motivates a dog to dread an owner's negative response - recognize a principle beyond the action itself.

I don't think this is much different than human behavior. Humans are animals, we're conditioned in very much the same way. The difference is that dogs, and wild animals in general, don't understand why it's "wrong" to crap inside of a house, to them it makes no difference; the only reason they would feel guilt is because, as you said, it upsets the owner and they get a scolding.

For example, let's say we travel to a country where the culture of the people is drastically different than our own. Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, that they revere toilets and consider it a grave sin to crap inside of a toilet. We, having been conditioned to crap in toilets, may not understand why this culture reveres the toilet so much, and so we crap in one. As a result of our uncivil defecation, we are scolded. Do we suddenly feel bad because we crapped in the toilet? No, we feel bad because we got yelled at and felt shunned/rejected by our peers.

Children behave in very similar ways. It's all conditioning and upbringing. "Right" and "wrong" are in most cases entirely subjective. There are very few things that are inherently morally wrong, and I do think that animals understand this, but they do not necessarily feel a compulsion to act in morally wrong ways, unlike us humans. For instance, animals seldom kill for necessity. There are some cases in which insects will kill their mates as a part of the mating process, but that's their nature. Otherwise, however, animals tend to only kill in self defense and/or for food. I don't know of any animal that kills for sport other than humans; even when cats do it, they often give the corpse of the animal to their owners as a gift.

Charles Manson heavily drugged his followers. While they were drugged, they were easily manipulated, so they were likely not very aware of what they were doing.

He is a very intelligent person in his own way. There is no denying that.
That swastika between his eyes destroys any credibility he ever did have though lol.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


I may have been vague.

When I said recognize a principle beyond the action, I mean to say, they recognize an inherent rightness or wrongness which causes them to act accordingly.

The Golden Rule is the ultimate arbiter of behavior: Don't to other people that which you would not want done to you. Also, don't do to others which you would not want done to you - if you were in their situation.

There is much more extrapolation that can be done in order to figure out the correctness of any moral judgement, and yes, every moral situation is different, but, that does not mean there are no general principles we can look to.

Dogs - all animals as well - can never ascertain because their understanding is either instinctual or prodded by their environment. What humans can do, which no animal on earth can do - and this is not to be underestimated - is the ability to resist and even deny instinctual commands, with success.

Humans can manipulate their environment, which magically speaking, means to exploit the energetic forces both within and without, and technologically speaking, the ability to devise instruments to take advantage of physical principles.

If this does not make humans essentially different from animals, than I have no argument left. To me, this argument suffices. I cannot think of another animal which is even close to 'creating' - conceptually,

Cult figure. He gets into people's heads and takes them for a spin. The master craftsman of devious devices, unlimited by common sense. I'd actually trust a wild face eating chimp to live in the same home as me more than a tame Manson. A chimp is crazy, and strong, and deadly, and you know that, but the chimp would never get kind with you and convince you to hurt another person the same way Manson would. It's bizarre that humanity keeps him alive and infamous, but that is precisely the kind of magnetism he has over those who would be tempted to remove him from the living. They are curious to see if there is an end to his twists in sight. I'm curious to see when his publicity ends. I guess he finds a way to make more.

He's the perfect bait character for wayward young men who want to idolize rebellion. I bet DHS has a list especially for Manson fans. But what you get after it all is a long term prison resident with a gift of gab.

he didn't really accomplish anything.

he got a bunch of hippies high on lsd during the flower power era, manipulated them into killing people and was then caught.

look what jim jones did. he got 909 people to follow him to guyana, try to make a utopian society, and then had them all drink poisoned kool-aid and die.

but, that doesn't mean charles manson doesn't have some evil insight. but you can never trust what he says, because of who he is.

since he's a master manipulator, he's even got you to make a thread about him calling him a genius from behind bars, i would say he's pretty good at what he does.

but nothing a 75 cent 9 mm bullet couldn't handle.

i wish the second amendment was a global right.

He's not the master manipulator people think he is. He got where he is by accident. He was a young layabout who had the gift of the gab, able to only influence young vulnerable people who were mostly stoned runaways.

He's definitely not an intellectual. He's is a nutjob and nothing more. I've read that if you write to him and ask for some insights on his personal philosophies, he'll just demand you buy him magazines and other pressies and tease you with his "knowledge". He's full of sh**!

Charles Manson and the BIGGER PICTURE:

"....the murders attributed to the Son of Sam, the Manson Family, and numerous other interconnected killings (including possibly the Zodiac murders) were not what they appeared to be. While these killings appeared to be the random work of serial/mass murderers, they actually were contract hits carried out for specific purposes by an interlocking network of Satanic cults .....In other words, these were professional hits orchestrated and disguised to look like the work of yet another 'lone nut' serial killer. Which is, of course, exactly what Henry [McGowan] claimed his crimes to be, several years before investigative journalist Terry published his convincingly documented work."

Word in brackets mine.

www.whale.to...

Here's what he is: A Supertroll

reply to post by Outofcontrol


Like many people today Mr. Manson both Charles and Marilyn are not driving their own cars.

(Using cars as a metaphor) for body).

The first time I saw the Exorcist I was agnostic and didn't believe in "the devil" or "evil other dimensional entities".

Check out L. A. Marzulli's interpretation of what is currently going on...............interesting.

And I always thought the Bible was a bunch of fairy tales.

We had a friend that has since passed away. He was a famous archeologist and ex priest. On one dig his friend and colleague worked on in Africa, the US Government came in and took over and confiscated their dig. He said his friend was not at liberty to disclose what they think they started to find because if he became a "National Security Threat" his whole family could then "become involved in some very unfortunate accident".

To a degree, the real Charles Manson no longer exists, maybe somewhere deep within his vehicle we call a body, but basically, again, hes not driving his own car.

Originally posted by Outofcontrol
What exactly is Charles Manson?

A simple psychopath? A cold-blooded killer? A complete nutjob? or a genius?

I hate to join the discussion so late, especially having not read the previous responders, but hey, here I am.

What is Charles Manson? Very simply he is the monster within us we do not wish to acknowledge exists.

Some would elevate themselves above him. They are deluded in their own self worth.

Some are mesmerized looking up at him. They are lost in their own degradation.

I see him within me, and I embrace it as a fascinating and liberating fact of life.

I mastered the beast Manson could not. For this, I pity him.

He is kin to me.

reply to post by Outofcontrol


Manson's ability to see society and 'civil'ization the way it truly is and mirror that back to the world in his actions doesn't minimize the fact that he is equally as corrupted and bent only in yet a further distorted way that takes the corruption of our civilization to the next level.

This doesn't mean he is a genius simply because he can see the world around him for what it is and 'the game'. He is simply an awakened pyschopath/sociopath. Equally as sick and corrupted as the world around him that he is trying to mirror back to us.

Originally posted by Xaphan
He is a very intelligent person in his own way. There is no denying that.
That swastika between his eyes destroys any credibility he ever did have though lol.

That is the perfect answer right there!

He was a devious genius.
A true psychopath,
smart and deviant and manipulative.

That makes him a nutjob in my book lol