US Military you are not fighting for your country

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


I was reading something about 2024 but it must have come from a B.S site.

All we're doing in Afghanistan is ensuring that that the fat cats have an endless supply of white powder.

but in all honesty...this line of conversation has to do with the OP...so.


One final...I know about the WMD fiasco. But...what I'm wandering is...is that enough? So what if someone has WMD's ? If they are not using it on anyone, but maybe to deter any potential attack on their country...I don't see the problem. Since US has WMD's for the same reason...to keep the dreaded red threat at bay...and a whole lot of other countries have them...what's the reasoning here? We can have them...but nobody else can? Isn't that even un-democratic? And the US is the pinnacle of democracy...at least they say so.

reply to post by thesungod


I never flew the flag or listened to that garbage that came out of the dregs of Nashville (# Toby Keith!).

You were duped. Hell, we all were duped with that WMD talk and Dubya's "You're Either With Us or Against Us" rhetoric.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

To be fair, soldiers can't just up and leave without the risk of a court martial.

If you sign up, you do whatever the government tells you to do.

I don't buy the idea that there are soldiers who will refuse to fire upon their fellow civilians. If they do, they're in contempt and their military career is basically over.

Of course. THe military training ensures that you follow orders. It is the very foundation of military. respecting hierarchy and follow orders. It wouldn't work any other way.


As I said...I don't blame guys who are there and do their job. Theirs is the least blame...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Still, you would think that some people who signed up would think harder about their choice before doing so.

Poverty pushes many toward the military with dreams of scholarships and a comfy job. Come to think of it, college students get the same "promises" and usually end up with much less after 4 years.

You know, I'd like to actually NOT be a dick this time about the military. Rather, I want to know how people who've done tours of duty feel about the war in general.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I mean we're talking about invading Iran over their WMDs or nukes in this case. We're still doing it. The Muslim Iraq's were gassing and shooting the Kurds in the north for fun, or so the Kurds told us. But beyond that I agree that we had little to no justification.

reply to post by The Sword


I hear you. I was almost lynched several times for questioning the official story. I have been dragged through the gutter of "anti-American" comments from crazed patriotic zombies.

I did help my friend put up a huge flag on a mast in his car though. That was just fun. We were like a little patriotic boat on the road. The thing was bigger than the Honda prelude it hovered over.

reply to post by The Sword


Yeah...you know I would like even more to see the politician with his itchy trigger on the finger to stop and think about it. Soldiers are tools (not meant as an insult). Much like the rifle is a tool in soldiers hand. Rifle isn't to blame.

I understand your sentiment...you would want us all to think for ourselves, and reject immoral orders as soldiers. But if that were the case...it would create chaos in any military. Morality is mostly an individual thing...dependant on your culture, education...since most countries are multi cultural...you pretty soon have guys going in to military for benefits...

Hey...I say...scrap the military...scrap all weapons and armies...can't we all just get along

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Think for yourselves BEFORE you join the military.

In other words, don't feel bullied or pressured to join just because.

If you feel that it is your destiny, then by all means do so.

reply to post by babybunnies


1.8 million troops vs 313,000,000 million civilians, That I would love to see

If things keep going they way they are, people are going to see why us Americans arm ourselves.

A unarmed nation is a doomed nation.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


It's a very sensitive subject and I don't blame people for taking offense.

I've personally had bad experiences with former soldiers who left to join civilian management, etc. I know that these incidents are isolated and I know that perhaps the people who committed them were not fully there or were unable to shrug off what they had been taught.

For example, this supervisor of mine grabbed me without warning to get my attention. It was traumatizing as I am hearing impaired and not used to people grabbing or pulling for attention. I consider that a violation of my personal space. When I reported it, it was shrugged off. I didn't last long at that job but I still have bad memories of that time.

Again, I know that not all folks are like this.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

I don't buy the idea that there are soldiers who will refuse to fire upon their fellow civilians. If they do, they're in contempt and their military career is basically over.

I never would have fired on fellow American's, yes even facing a DD or full tribunal. I also know that a good 70% of the men I served with wouldn't have either. Ya'll are why we joined, that and perks.

That being said some soldiers get the "lust" and live for the fight or running and gunning.

But just imagine half the army not obeying that order. And I'm talking about just the Army. That's almost a third of the entire military the Army being the largest branch. Sailors and Airmen are soft, really really soft in comparison to marines or soldiers. Don't get me wrong they both have their hard core units, SEALs and CBs to a lesser extent. MSF, MAs, PJs, etc. But a good 70% of the war fighters are Army only.

Lose half the war fighters and what do you end up with? An ground force less than 200,000 troops trained to actually fight. Everyone else is just as important, but they're support and not trained for combat, just self defense.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

Think for yourselves BEFORE you join the military.

In other words, don't feel bullied or pressured to join just because.

If you feel that it is your destiny, then by all means do so.

Agreed. I would never join the army, as I don't like guns, and couldn't force myself to kill another human being...whoever he/she is and whatever he/she has done.

But I won't succumb to single mindedness, pretending that mine is the right view. I'm sure people have their reasons. Some are probably justified. Like the sungod...he did it out of misplaced feeling of revenge and maybe to get out of his life situation (being poor). But you cant color him stupid because of it. We need to step out of our own shoes...

we as humans have aour flaws. We can be sympathetic, naive, easy or whatever...but those are human traits. It's those that exploit our weaknesses for their personal gain are the real enemy.

No soldier is my enemy.

Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

There is only one person responsible for this, OBAMA. Ask him. The buck stops there.

Amen. Anybody that would blame members of the military for overseas adventurism is misguided at best, or at least has no idea how military orders are delivered. We have civilian control of our military, if you think the average enlisted man wants to go fight all over the world you must not have talked to many. However they take an oath (enlisted only, officer's oath is to the constitution) to obey the orders of the President.

The only way the military has control over where we go would be with a coup. So blame the right people, politicians. Maybe read up on chain of command?

Originally posted by mytheroy
reply to post by babybunnies

 

1.8 million troops vs 313,000,000 million civilians, That I would love to see

If things keep going they way they are, people are going to see why us Americans arm ourselves.

A unarmed nation is a doomed nation.

The idea of a war between American citizens and it's army is pretty silly. The majority of military men are patriot and more up to date on current events in this country than most. The only action the military would take against its own would be a coup, not rounding up bob and deb 1250 newberry street.

reply to post by Jagermeister


Please know the facts before you post. Please read. And of course he will be better than Obama. My 4 year old niece would be better.

2012.republican-candidates.org...

If you want people to not hate American people then stop killing the people because they belong to a culture you do not know, one you may not understand...

peoples of the world have the right to be whatever they want, they are entitled to their right to live, they are entitled to the lands in which they live on and came from for thousands of years..

People of the world have the right to self determination, to determine their own systems of government and their own way... it is not your business, nor do you have the right to change our governments, or interfere in any way.. if we do not like our governments we will change it, if not then we wont....

If you want the peoples of the world not to hate you then start practicing what you preach... do not make agreements with people to gain their assistance and then leave them to the slaughter instead of holding up your end of the bargain...

Do not kill us indiscriminately so that your corporations can have our resources, something to which only we are entitled to use or sell at our leisure, if you do not like the price then do not buy it... but do not kill us for it.....

If you want the people of the world to not hate you then change...

if you want WW3 then keep on this way and you will have it...

Your choice, it is the choice of every American to either stop it or support it, but if you do nothing it is the same as supporting it...

YOU CHOOSE

TextEnd the 10 year war and come home! Stop playing world police.

reply to post by Jagermeister


I agree with everything you say except you used a more polite way of saying exactly the way I feel. I fought two wars and it took me almost ninety years old to wake up. My heart bleeds for these youngsters who are as dumb as I was. They are coming home with physical problems which will never get better. Iraq and Afghanistan is so contaminated with depleted uranium and other exotic chemicals that hardly anyone would believe it and our own govt. ignores our people exposed to all of this. Years from now we shall see that hundreds of thousands of our military will suffer mental and physical disease and it will be swept under the rug just like it is today. All for what? So that the fat cats can continue their oil and drug cartels. What a shame this country has evolved into.

The military is a fantastic institution and anyone who knocks it is a true coward. They'd never have the guts to do what a soldier does in war time. Never.

However, the institution has been abused and taken advantage of since the Korean War. It's no longer for defending freedom or democracy, it's used for defending corporate America.

That's the issue at hand.