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The Masons: Apartheid in America

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posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 10:37 AM
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Here we have in America, supposedly the nation of freedom and equality, a secretive group that still refuses equality to another group based upon race. Masonism (in America) routinely discriminates against women and has since its inception.

 



www.wxii12.com
White Masons Vote To Continue Racial Split

POSTED: 10:03 pm EDT September 27,

2004
UPDATED: 10:05 pm EDT September 27,

2004
RALEIGH, N.C. -- North Carolina's white Masons remain split from their black counterparts.

The white Masons voted on Saturday to reject a resolution to officially recognize the state's historically black Masonic group.

A two-thirds vote was required to pass the resolution considered at the annual convention of the Ancient, Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina, which met in Winston-Salem. The resolution carried by a 520-to-459 vote.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


One has to wonder what 'moral truths' exist that preclude equality based on gender or race. America touts it's own brand of crabbed-democracy in far away places such as Iraqi calling for the Sunni and #e to treat each other as equals yet denies the same to its own citizenry.

How then can Masonry carry any kind of light 'out into the world' for other nations and other races when apartheid* is evident in one of its own powerful groups?

* A policy or practice of separating or segregating groups.

Related News Links:
newsobserver.com
www.wilmingtonstar.com

[edit on 29-9-2004 by John bull 1]




posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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American Apartheid part 2


Newsobserver.com
part 2
(a majority was) in favor of a resolution to recognize the state's traditionally black Masonic group. The resolution failed, however, because two-thirds of the vote was required to pass it.
"I don't know that I know what to say. I'm still emotional about it," said Leonard Safrit Jr., the group's grand master. "This is just a slap in the face."

Mission Statement for North Carolina Grand Lodge:
    The mission of Freemasonry in North Carolina is to raise the moral, social,
    intellectual, and spiritual conscience of society by teaching the ancient
    and enduring philosophical tenets of Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth,
    which are expressed outwardly through service to God, family, country, and
    self under the Fatherhood of God within the Brotherhood of Man.

How in the world does these statements square with gender (women) and race discrimination of the highest order?

A leader of North Carolina Masonry, Jesse Helms was a Senator from the state and an avowed racist and Klansman.

In addition to these tactics that relied on misleading statements and occasional blatant untruths, Helms also tried to discourage blacks from voting in the 1990 race. 125,000 North Carolina voters, almost all black, were sent postcards that said they might not be eligible to vote and, if they tried, they might be prosecuted for vote fraud. The Justice Department investigated . . . and found the Helms campaign at fault.

One has to wonder how an organization that avails itself of the public trough (tax incentives) can blatantly still pursue segregation.


So much for a universal brotherhood based upon individual self-worth.



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Here we have in America, supposedly the nation of freedom and equality, a secretive group that still refuses equality to another group based upon race. Masonism (in America) routinely discriminates against women and has since its inception.


Masonry is a FRATERNITY, Michael... not a sorority. I am okay with this. If you're not, tough. No one asked for your opinion, and since you are no longer a mason, it really doesn't matter what you think...


2004
RALEIGH, N.C. -- North Carolina's white Masons remain split from their black counterparts.

The white Masons voted on Saturday to reject a resolution to officially recognize the state's historically black Masonic group.

A two-thirds vote was required to pass the resolution considered at the annual convention of the Ancient, Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina, which met in Winston-Salem. The resolution carried by a 520-to-459 vote.


One has to wonder what 'moral truths' exist that preclude equality based on gender or race. America touts it's own brand of crabbed-democracy in far away places such as Iraqi calling for the Sunni and #e to treat each other as equals yet denies the same to its own citizenry.


Ok, THIS I am embarrassed over. My grand lodge recognizes all Prince Hall Grand Lodges that the Most Worship Grand Lodge of Prince Hall of California, Inc. recognizes.


How then can Masonry carry any kind of light 'out into the world' for other nations and other races when apartheid* is evident in one of its own powerful groups?


Well, that is typically over the top, even for you. Apartheid is NOT what is happening. These men are STILL masons, no one is denying them a right to be masons, its just that this PARTICULAR grand lodge chose not to RECOGNIZE them. And, if you look at the vote, the MAJORITY voted yes, but the requirements of the supermajority vote for changes such as that was not reached. Perhaps next year.

Apartheid is something entirely different, and having BEEN is South Africa, I can tell you that Apartheid was more horrible than even YOU can imagine.

As for women members, why is it so wrong to have a fraternity or a group that only allows men or only allows women? Why is that so wrong? Its not like masonry is about business or job opportunity, housing or credit. Its about good men working together to be better men. Men and women together is an entirely different social dynamic.


[edit on 9/29/04 by theron dunn]



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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I think Theron basically has the last word on this matter.

More fishing from Gadfly. The fish 'aint biting, though.

My Initiation is still proceeding.


[edit on 29-9-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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theron, I appreciate your 'California dreaming' dissertation. Everyone knows how 'different' Californians are anyway.

How can a 'philosophy' (masonry) accept on the one hand and deny the same thing on the other?

I have a web-server in South Africa (hosted by personal friends) and am more aware of Apartheid than YOU can imagine. Ever hear of Selous Scouts? Many people do things in life that they later greatly regret.

another link. I've known Mike , but probably not the one you are thinking of.

This “Michael” you are fixated upon is not I.

I am white, Scotch-Irish ( this immediately makes me American or Canadian).

That all-seeing eye some of the masons love so much needs glasses.


theron, if you don't want to read what I post reach to the left- 'click' IGNORE. You'll probably feel much better and still be without a clue.

“over the top”? How so.
“Separate but equal!” Jesse Helms 32deg. And a Klucker!

Strom Thurmond (another light bearing mason), author of the Southern Manifesto

Intellectual Conservative
Thurmond, who following his failed presidential attempt served an unprecedented eight terms in the Senate, ran as a segregationist in 1948. His record on Civil Rights was as shadowy as Bill Clinton’s internship program. He and another senator (to be named later) led the charge in filibustering the 1964 Civil Rights Act and threatened to block African American students from public schools with citizen police forces. He incited race riots with his words and was funded with money from the KKK. In short, he
wasn’t a man to be praised—especially by the sitting majority leader of the Senate.



Rotten.com reports (that in)1925 (he) Becomes a Master Mason, Concordia Lodge No. 50, Edgefield SC.


As a Lodge officer and apparently much interested in propagandizing masonry it seems to me that you and others would be well ahead to pressure your Grand Lodges to be more in step with masonry's stated goals instead of appearing two-faced. Locals do run things, right?

I have been wrong~



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 04:29 PM
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"Here we have in America, supposedly the nation of freedom and equality, a secretive group that still refuses equality to another group based upon race. Masonism (in America) routinely discriminates against women and has since its inception."

We are indeed the nation of FREEDOM. We should be free to permit entry into our fraternity anyone we please and reject anyone, including all members of a particular group or class. My question is only: so what? So, what if we do discriminate? I don't think the workings or membership requirements of masonry is any of your business unless you are, like myself, a mason.

As far as the Prince Hall Lodges go, I don't really care about the fact that some Lodges don't recognize them, for whatever reason or for no reason at all. That's simply the exercise of FREEDOM, something many in this country no longer understand.



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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I find it interesting and dismaying that Masonry in particular is being singled out as a violator of racial equality, in light of the rampant and less publicized racial inequality present in other organizations, not only in North America but worldwide. In government, the social sphere, against Jews, Roma, and others.

We need to remember that Masonry is a worldwide institution - around 6 million members strong.

The problems with a few lodges in the United States who might object to Prince Hall Masons one way or the other is INFINITESIMAL in comparison to the generally healthy state of Masonry worldwide.

Further, the reasons for certain Lodges objecting to Prince Hall Masonry has little to do per se with "Racism" as Gadfly's post implies (it CERTAINLY implies that.) It has to do with the admission of Freeborn men (people who are not slaves.) Being freeborn was a requirement because sometimes a Mason's duties required travel, and/or certain obligations to the Lodge that naturally conflicted with the social/mobility limitations imposed by slavery. This is not to suggest that the members of these objecting lodges were ALL lily-white saints with not a streak of bad in them, but it IS to suggest that the reasons might not be racially-motivated but motivated by tradition. It might take a bit of eye-opening to realize that the sons of former slaves are not slaves. The problem needs to be corrected, but BEFORE YOU DARE TO CRITICIZE MASONRY, know that you are magnifying a small problem, in light of Masonry worldwide, and that other organizaitons are far worse off. Be consistent. There are, unfortunately, racists among the Masons, as with many organizations, but fo you are at all familiar with the kind of men Masonry admits to its ranks, you can bet you'll find far fewer in Masonry than anywhere else.

I realize that all these moral attacks on Masonry's tiny moral stumbles here and there are probably the result of Masonry's lofty goals, which are stated very publicly. It invites the petty to attack and defame Masonry.

Just like in boxing, everyone wants a shot at the champ. But after all the rounds, all the attacks, all the fishing-trips by detractors, Masonry remains undefeated.



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
theron, I appreciate your 'California dreaming' dissertation. Everyone knows how 'different' Californians are anyway.


Well, thanks, but the plain fact is that only 7 grand lodges still do not recognize prince hall masonry, and as you noted lower in your post, it IS about local control. Am I embarassed they do not recognize PH lodges? Yes. Can I change them? NO, but I can write and post and talk, and that sometimes has a positive effect...


How can a 'philosophy' (masonry) accept on the one hand and deny the same thing on the other?


Please elucidate. NOTHING in masonry talks about equality... we talk about brotherhood, among masons. I probably accept more masons AS masons than my grand lodge does, but I stay within my obligations toward them and withing the rules of my grand lodge.


I have a web-server in South Africa (hosted by personal friends) and am more aware of Apartheid than YOU can imagine. Ever hear of Selous Scouts? Many people do things in life that they later greatly regret.


Well, how nice for you. I worked there for a while, and I can tell you the casual assumption that blacks were beneath notice and inferior was embarrassing, and a great factor in my leaving that job.


This “Michael” you are fixated upon is not I.

I am white, Scotch-Irish ( this immediately makes me American or Canadian).

That all-seeing eye some of the masons love so much needs glasses.


You mistake me, sirrah. I do not CARE if you are Michael, though I find it interesting that you found it necessary to declare your whiteness as if it mattered to anyone.. I am glad, however, that you have finally admitted that you are not he. I will never mention him again, that is how little I regard the "man".


theron dunn, if you don't want to read what I post reach to the left- 'click' IGNORE. You'll probably feel much better and still be without a clue.


hahahhahahaha, YOU WISH...



“over the top”? How so.
“Separate but equal!” Jesse Helms 32deg. And a Klucker!


I never wrote separate but equal, you did. I never felt it necessary to announce my race, you did. Your pathetic little attacks on masonry are over the top... and I notice you did NOT address my comments about women masons... why is it that you are so fixated on race relations, when you are not even a mason? MY grand lodge recognizes PH lodge, as do 44 OTHER Mainstream Masonic Lodges... why is it that you are focusing on 7 grand lodges and not noting the rest? Including the REST OF THE WORLD? I have only addressed the issue in the US.


Strom Thurmond (another light bearing mason), author of the various publications and a failed presidential attempt served an unprecedented eight terms in the Senate, ran as a segregationist in 1948. His record on Civil Rights was as shadowy as Bill Clinton’s internship program. He and another senator (to be named later) led the charge in filibustering the 1964 Civil Rights Act and threatened to block African American students from public schools with citizen police forces. He incited race riots with his words and was funded with money from the KKK. In short, he wasn’t a man to be praised—especially by the sitting majority leader of the Senate.


So, I have never praised him... why do you think pointing out the obvious is of any value... oh, yes, that's right, he's a mason, so therefore the thoughts and actions of one represent all, right? You have got to be kidding... I don't ascribe to his philosophy, nor do any of my brothers.

As for being in the KKK, he is not NOW in the KKK. People grow and change, but the lame arguments do not seem to grow and change... same old tired cliche's and tar brushes... not useful, not relevant.


As a Lodge officer and apparently much interested in propagandizing masonry it seems to me that you and others would be well ahead to pressure your Grand Lodges to be more in step with masonry's stated goals instead of appearing two-faced. Locals do run things, right?


YUP, they shore do... and since I and my grand lodge are, as you have so noted, IN CALIFORNIA, and they, as you have also noted, ARE NOT, the locals are running things. Also, as you have carefully NOT addressed, the majority of the brothers there DID vote to recognize the PH lodges... it was just not a supermajority as required. Perhaps next year they will.

All grand lodges that do not currently recognize PH lodges are moving toward doing so, but since masonry is designed to prevent change, or severely slow it, and to prevent one man from control (democratic voting... you are familiar with the concept, I hope) it sometimes takes time... but it is happening. What will you harp on next? Women in masonry? As if.


I have been wrong~


You have CERTAINLY been wrong, there gadfly, and as long as you post, you will continue to be wrong... maybe if you grew up and actually looked at the facts for a change...

as if!



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 05:46 PM
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Masonry has indeed gone the rounds, Theron.

Bout for bout, round for round. Undefeaed. It persists to such a degree in America, and it counts among its members so many champions of democracy and those who distinguish themselves IN democracy, because it IS so in line with the values that a free, upright, and just proponent of democracy aspires to.

Note that Gadfly is also the same person who, whenever given the chance, liberally slanders the good work of Shriner's hospitals. I'd like to see him with that kind of attiude if one of his own children depended on their FREE and unparalleled care.



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
Masonry has indeed gone the rounds, Theron.

Bout for bout, round for round. Undefeaed. It persists to such a degree in America, and it counts among its members so many champions of democracy and those who distinguish themselves IN democracy, because it IS so in line with the values that a free, upright, and just proponent of democracy aspires to.

Note that Gadfly is also the same person who, whenever given the chance, liberally slanders the good work of Shriner's hospitals. I'd like to see him with that kind of attiude if one of his own children depended on their FREE and unparalleled care.


Presumes facts not in evidence...

a) that there is a woman out there that would have him
b) that gadfly IS a he
c) that gadfly could have children
d) that gadfly would accept help even for his children from men he so clearly despises... I mean, if he has any shred of honor, he could not accept help from us, even for his child, seeing as how he hates us so...

Just some random thoughts...



posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 10:56 PM
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Hehe . . . . good call, Theron!

------------------------------------------------


[edit on 29-9-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 12:03 AM
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LTD sigh

theron old chum,

"clearly depises" is awfully harsh. I believe that you are biased and unfair. Show me ten (10) just things i have posted that would lead a just person to believe I despise masons as individuals.

I think you're just making sport.



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
LTD sigh

theron dunn, old chum,

"clearly depises" is awfully harsh. I believe that you are biased and unfair. Show me ten (10) just things i have posted that would lead a just person to believe I despise masons as individuals.

I think you're just making sport.


Well, ALL of your posts show that... that is why, in part, you got a warning, right? I am not making sport of you. You have written NOTHING but spite and falsehoods about masonry since you started posting on the subject, a fact on which you have been endlessly chided by all of us... but hey, you go right on making a fool of yourself...

I kind of admire a man who can stand up and make a constant horses patoot of himself and not see it...you must have a lot of practice at posting falsehoods and hatred...



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 04:10 AM
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To say you won't let so and so join because they are another colour is one of the most basic mindset a human could show. It reminds me of the playground.

I am suprised even 1 lodge has this attitdude as I thought to be a Mason you needed to be of certain moral standing? I am a moral person but black people are not welcome! HAHAHAHAH Come join the path to enlightenment - WHITES ONLY. BLACKS THROUGH THE OTHER DOOR!!!


Still every group has its bad apples.


[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 05:42 AM
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Way to go everyone. Reading Gadfly's headline and assuming that these Lodges don't accept Prince Hall because of race is total crap.

Prince Hall hasn't been accepted because these Lodges still consider their ritual to be irregular. Not because somebody is black or somebody else white. There are 7 fundamentals that a Grand Lodge must adhere to in the ceremony which some of the regular US states still claim PH does not practice.
UGLE recognised Prince Hall because they actually did make some changes to their ceremonies to come into line, but as far as I'm aware they still don't entirely follow the 7 fundamentals and this is why they aren't recognised in some states.


I don't deny that there may be some prejudice left over in the States from the days of slavery and segregation - after all, the whole of the US has suffered from racism at some time in it's recent history - but to claim that this decision was taken because of that, is deceitful and untrue.

Gadfly, go spew your lies and hatred elsewhere.



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by LTD602
I find it interesting and dismaying that Masonry in particular is being singled out as a violator of racial equality, in light of the rampant and less publicized racial inequality present in other organizations, not only in North America but worldwide. In government, the social sphere, against Jews, Roma, and others.

We need to remember that Masonry is a worldwide institution - around 6 million members strong.

The problems with a few lodges in the United States who might object to Prince Hall Masons one way or the other is INFINITESIMAL in comparison to the generally healthy state of Masonry worldwide.

Further, the reasons for certain Lodges objecting to Prince Hall Masonry has little to do per se with "Racism" as Gadfly's post implies (it CERTAINLY implies that.) This is not to suggest that the members of these objecting lodges were ALL lily-white saints with not a streak of bad in them, but it IS to suggest that the reasons might not be racially-motivated but motivated by tradition.


Right, Leveller. I already planted this seed in an earlier post, however. Looks like some people "missed" it.


I just love how people take the time to read my posts carefully.



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 07:37 AM
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Isn't it surprising how these headlines catch what is not always the truth. we see here from a press report that W.Br.
Leonard Safrit Grand Master of The Grand Lodge of Nth. Carolina visiting the instalation of his counterpart at the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, both men working to break down the centuries of prejudice. They are getting there. but what do we see in the headline WHITE Masons reject BLACK Masons. No one bothers to find out if the BLACK Masons accept the WHITE Masons. Give these courageous men the credit they deserve. Of course it could be that it will not make a great headline. But when the USA has managed to free itself in all other areas from the past , then you can look at what these Evil Masons do.
And of course it would ruin the story completely if you knew that Black masons could join the Whites and Whites could join the Blacks, would it not.

-----------------------------------------------------------------



www.news-observer.com...

By RICHARD STRADLING, Staff Writer

Leonard Safrit Jr. has spent the past year imploring his fellow white Masons to abandon a legacy of segregation and formally acknowledge the state's black Masonic group.
Today, Safrit, the grand master of the Ancient, Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina, learns whether he succeeded.

About 1,000 delegates to the annual Masonic convention in Winston-Salem will vote on recognizing the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina, founded by black Masons in 1870.

The vote comes one year after the predominantly white group voted 495 to 456 to maintain the status quo: Each of North Carolina's two statewide Masonic organizations -- one white, one black -- officially pretends the other does not exist.

Safrit, president of Safrit's Building Supply in Beaufort, made reconciliation his top priority after becoming grand master last September. He appeared at more than 140 Masonic lodges and events, urging Masons to make history today.

"I've carried the message across the state," Safrit said. "I've done everything that I know I could have done."

The two Masonic groups have about 64,000 members -- 52,000 white Masons and 12,000 black. Both carry on the centuries-old tenets and teachings of freemasonry, a fraternity founded in medieval Europe by the craftsmen who built castles and cathedrals. Known for their rituals and secrecy, Masons aim to better themselves and society by living a moral and just life.

North Carolina's white Masonic group, based in Raleigh, dropped a ban on black members in the 1970s, but few have joined. Likewise, the Prince Hall group, based in Durham, is open to people of all races but remains predominantly black.

North Carolina is one of 14 states in which the traditionally white Masonic group does not recognize Prince Hall Masons as fellow Masons. Except for Delaware and West Virginia, the states where the white and black Masonic groups remain estranged are in the South.

Three years ago, a commission of white Masons that included former Gov. Jim Martin and former State Supreme Court Chief Justice Jim Exum studied the lineage and practices of Prince Hall and determined there was no reason to continue ignoring the black group. To do so, commission members said, would be considered racism and would damage the Masons' reputation.

Today's resolution would simply acknowledge Prince Hall Masons without merging the two groups in any way. A separate resolution would leave it up to individual lodges to set policies on allowing Prince Hall Masons to visit.

If the resolution is approved, Prince Hall Masons will vote at their convention next weekend in the same hotel, the Adam's Mark in downtown Winston-Salem.

Prince Hall Grand Master Milton "Toby" Fitch Jr. predicted his group would approve the measure overwhelmingly.

"It's time for this type of situation to end," said Fitch, a Superior Court judge in Edgecombe and Wilson counties. "Jim Crow is dead; he just needs to be buried."

Chuck Rouse, for one, will vote to recognize Prince Hall. Rouse, a delegate for the 205-year-old Hiram Lodge No. 40 in Raleigh, is hopeful that enough Masons have changed their minds to pass the resolution this year.

Like many lodges, Hiram 40's members talked about the convention resolutions but left the final decision up to the delegates.

"We say, 'Vote your conscience for what is best for the frater- nity,' " Rouse said.

That has been Safrit's message all year. He said he, too, is hopeful but confesses that he was mystified why white Masons voted not to recognize their black brothers last year.

"You just don't know what's on people's minds," he said.



[edit on 30-9-2004 by billmcelligott]



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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Leveller, I sense some hostility in your posts. Perhaps I can alleviate this.

UGLE (United Grand Lodge of England)


Masonry site
Everyone should be aware that every Grand Lodge in the world recognizes its own set of Grand Lodges, and no one is required to follow what the UGLE does. There is not a single U.S. Grand Lodge that recognizes the same set of Grand Lodges as the UGLE. Some have specifically rejected requests by the UGLE to recognize or not recognize certain Grand Lodges.



little more UGLE
The Board is also aware that there exist other bodies not directly imitative of pure an[c]tient Masonry, but which by implication introduce Freemasonry, such as the Order of the Eastern Star. Membership of such bodies, attendance at their meetings, or participation in their ceremonies is incompatible with membership of this Grand Lodge.


As to Leveller's assertions as to “irregularity”


Gary Dryfoos Masonry site
It is beyond doubt that there were some informal Masonic communications in Boston Massachusetts prior to 1733 but the official history begins around July 30th of that year. (It may have been as late as the end of August, however) The first Provincial Grand Lodge of Massachusetts was founded at that time with Henry Price as Provincial Grand Master (supposedly with a deputation from Right Honourable Anthony Browne, Viscount Montagu, Grand Master of England from April 19, 1732 to June 7, 1733) This Grand Lodge was founded at the same time as the ``Old First Lodge'' (#126 on the roll of the Grand Lodge of England). The Lodge was erased from the UGLE roll in 1813 along with African Lodge #370 and a host of others.


Must read- fascinating trace of events. Fairly complete.

A lot more stuff available- but you get the idea. UGLE recognizes PH lodges (for the most part) and there is little or no 'wanging' about irregularity, unlike what Leveller proposes. While 'irregularity' may be evident from lodge to lodge all lodges are subject to this claim, not just PH lodges.

Things still boil down to the present- in some parts of the world large numbers of masonic organizations refuse to recognize masons that are not of the same race. billmcelligott posted the entire article (I would have gotten a warning for that and probably pts). The article is just the surface, it is public statements.

Again, how can any organization postulate egalitarian ideals when its actions show otherwise- then cry when shown as foul?

Some of the pro-masons might want to avail themselves of better masonic propaganda- Masonic Services
Association of North America.
UK masons could probably learn what masonry really is from the Americans!

PS don't forget Bro. Pike



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Leveller, I sense some hostility in your posts. Perhaps I can alleviate this.


Sorry about that, but you obvioulsy are using this to further your agenda of hatred and I guess I am hostile towards someone who tells lies. Maybe if you spoke the truth, I would be more amiable towards you. I guess that would be the only way to "alleviate" anything.


UGLE recognizes PH lodges (for the most part) and there is little or no 'wanging' about irregularity, unlike what Leveller proposes. While 'irregularity' may be evident from lodge to lodge all lodges are subject to this claim, not just PH lodges.


Very wobbly statement there. UGLE actually recognises Prince Hall totally - not "for the most part" as you so falsely claim. But then I don't know if you have actually noticed, but UGLE is English masonry and as you so rightly claim in your statement, although it may set some of the benchmarks it cannot and does not force any other Grand Lodge to recognise another.
And contrary to your (yet again) false assertion, that there was little or no "wanging" between Prince Hall and UGLE over regularity in Lodge ceremony, I am happy to put you straight and state that the only reason that PH was not recognised by UGLE was because of considered discrepancies in their ceremonies that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with race.

I love the way that you state that "large masonic organisations" refuse to recognise each other because of race. Would you like to actually show me some proof instead of making vaccuous statements? By the way, proof does not consist of fringe groups which you may tenuously try to claim are in some ways related to regular masonry.

Once again, your ignorance shines through.



posted on Sep, 30 2004 @ 11:49 AM
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Interesting thread.

So was Pike in the KKK??? honest question. I have never read a straight answer. Did he have ties to the clan?

Just trying to understand thats all....

[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]



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